312 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

ASHTAR0N, on 09 November 2015 - 06:15 AM, said:

I know that reusing parts make´s sense in a military context. And it has also been done with some clan mechs. But those where part of a package deal and this is an expensive sold seperatly model, so they could atleast have some minor modifications...

Stop making about cost at least in context of the game.

Name one other set of 3 Heavies you can buy for less than $20? Name a heavy hero mech you can tack on for only $15 more.

It is a different approach, but as a stand alone purchase it is cheaper than any a la carte option because none of them give you 4 mechs and premium time for $35.

The extra redundant mech w/ cbills bonus is superflous, i'll grant you that, but base set + hero is not a bad deal compared to your other a la carte options.

[ASHTAR0N]

Well aditionally you get no unique geo, no faction patterns (maybe at some later point) but a higher price. So in general you just get less for more money. It would be fine with me if they used the money they make with the mechs to produce new content (MRM´s, game modes with objectives, AI, Tanks, Infantry, single player campaign, improving the older mechs...). The only thing they do is make more mechs and more mechs and more... but no new content.

[Desintegrator]

No more money for "single-Mech" Packs !

Stop this PGI !

[MovinTarget]

ASHTAR0N, on 09 November 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Well aditionally you get no unique geo, no faction patterns (maybe at some later point) but a higher price. So in general you just get less for more money. It would be fine with me if they used the money they make with the mechs to produce new content (MRM´s, game modes with objectives, AI, Tanks, Infantry, single player campaign, improving the older mechs...). The only thing they do is make more mechs and more mechs and more... but no new content.

What I am saying applies to all three of the "Iconic" Series, the others are a bit better of a deal, but the Rifleman is still a decent deal IF YOU WANT HEAVY MECHS (plz remember that assertion, its kind of important)

You don't get a specialty geo, but you get a *unique* paint job on the Hero, seeing that I care about neither, I call that a wash. Less for the same money? Please show the math because you cannot *currently* get 4 heavy chassis (one of which is a hero) plus Premium Time plus the other fluff I don't care about for $35.

If it is overpriced, then at least it is a better price than any other a la carte heavy purchases.

I'm not saying in the real world it is worth the price, what I'm saying is that its a better deal than people let on. If you can't pay $35 for them then don't. Just don't try to convince other people that their mechwarrior dollars would be better spent buying heavies a la carte from something like a resistance wave.

Unless you are buying multiple tiers of a IS/Clan Wave package, this is a better deal for *just* heavies.

[MovinTarget]

Desintegrator, on 09 November 2015 - 08:06 AM, said:

No more money for "single-Mech" Packs !

Stop this PGI !

Can you explain why this is bad? If you only wanted Black Knights from the Resistance Pack (ok just humor me for the sake of argument) you would pay what? $45 a la carte for 3 mechs with no added bonus?

You can buy the 'Rauder, Whammer, or Rifleman base package for $20 and get the same # of mechs (albeit w/o one with the cbill bonus) AND 30 days Premium Time. So apart from the cbill bonus on one mech you are are getting MORE for $25 LESS.

You can stop there if thats all you can afford (and for now get the Early Adopter bonus) -or- plunk down $15 for a Hero mech. Now you get everything for $35 Plus you have 4 different variants and you've still paid $10 less than a la carte.

So you can say "The a la carte options in the IS/Clan packages are over priced, but at least the Iconic Mechs are a better deal"

You can say "All mech packages are overpriced. Period."

Just don't act like these specifically are some sort of affront to nature as unholy aberrations COMPARED TO OTHER MECH OPTIONS because, for heavies, this is the best deal you can get stand alone.

[ASHTAR0N]

Well as i mentioned before: It would be fine with me if they used the money they make with the mechs to produce new content (MRM´s, game modes with objectives, AI, Tanks, Infantry, single player campaign, improving the older mechs...). Instead the only thing they do is make more mechs and more mechs and more... which just dont really add anything to the game.

Edited by ASHTAR0N, 09 November 2015 - 09:38 AM.

[ASHTAR0N]

MovinTarget, on 09 November 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

You don't get a specialty geo, but you get a *unique* paint job on the Hero, seeing that I care about neither, I call that a wash.

Even if you don´t care about it, but still making the unique geo (and different legs) costs time and therefore money. This means the cost for producing these mechs is lower and yet you have to pay more. For me this just feels like a cheap and fast way to make a money.

Edited by ASHTAR0N, 09 November 2015 - 09:53 AM.

[Arkhangel]

ASHTAR0N, on 09 November 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Even if you don´t care about it, but still making the unique geo (and different legs) costs time and therefore money. This means the cost for producing these mechs is lower and yet you have to pay more. For me this just feels like a cheap and fast way to make a money.

yes, but the inherent logic problem you have there is you're NOT paying more.

[MovinTarget]

Maybe they learned from the Urbie sale that the margin was not what it should be and thus the special geo was cut out...

Again I'm not saying its right or wrong, just tired of people saying its a worse deal...

Maybe most people are like me and wouldn't care about special geo, but a special skin is sufficient value... SINCE IT IS STILL INHERENTLY A BETTER VALUE FOR ALL THE FACTORS THAT MATTER IN WINNING AND MAKING CBILLS.

If they want to charge more for special geo, but make it optional.... I'm will to bet there isn't much of a market... Not as much as there is for cbill bonus and premium time and hey, throw in a cool skin, too.

[ASHTAR0N]

Arkhangel, on 09 November 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

yes, but the inherent logic problem you have there is you're NOT paying more.

In a Resistance pack you get 4 mechs with 4 variants, 4 with unique geo/camo/cbill boost +camo patterns + cockpit items +premium time for 80$. (I know the 4th variant is a pre order bonus, but most end up buying it before the deadline anyway.)

Instead if you buy the 3 classics (standard + hero) you get 3 mechs with 4 variants, 3 with unique camo/cbill boost + cockpit items +premium time, no camo patterns for 3*35$=105$.

Of course here it also depends on personal preferences/playstile-> do you consider 3 heavy´s to be worth more than 1assault, 1heavy, 1medium and 1 light? Atleast from a production standpoint its cheaper for PGI to make 3 mechs then 4...


And as I mentioned before: It would be fine with me if they used the money they make with the mechs to produce new content (MRM´s, game modes with objectives, AI, Tanks, Infantry, single player campaign, improving the older mechs...).

Edited by ASHTAR0N, 09 November 2015 - 11:22 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Yes yes yes, If you are buying a multi-chassis package, yes...

My point is that if you only are getting heavies, the a la carte for resistance can't compare.

Otherwise its apples to oranges.

Edited by MovinTarget, 09 November 2015 - 11:40 AM.

[Twilight Fenrir]

MovinTarget, on 09 November 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Can you explain why this is bad? If you only wanted Black Knights from the Resistance Pack (ok just humor me for the sake of argument) you would pay what? $45 a la carte for 3 mechs with no added bonus?

You can buy the 'Rauder, Whammer, or Rifleman base package for $20 and get the same # of mechs (albeit w/o one with the cbill bonus) AND 30 days Premium Time. So apart from the cbill bonus on one mech you are are getting MORE for $25 LESS.

You can stop there if thats all you can afford (and for now get the Early Adopter bonus) -or- plunk down $15 for a Hero mech. Now you get everything for $35 Plus you have 4 different variants and you've still paid $10 less than a la carte.

So you can say "The a la carte options in the IS/Clan packages are over priced, but at least the Iconic Mechs are a better deal"

You can say "All mech packages are overpriced. Period."

Just don't act like these specifically are some sort of affront to nature as unholy aberrations COMPARED TO OTHER MECH OPTIONS because, for heavies, this is the best deal you can get stand alone.

You sir, are my favorite person of the day. I was kind of in the mindset that their one-mech packages were a bad thing.... But you make an excellent point. These one-mech heavy packs are probably the best deals the game has had, once you frame it correctly. Now, if Wasps or Stingers come out this way, there might be more of an argument to be had... And maybe that's why they're doing the one-mech packs with the heavies. Since there are so many of them, they can't balance out packs with them, so they are throwing us a bone. Maybe once we get down to an even number of each weight class, we'll start seeing 4-packs again.

[MovinTarget]

Twilight Fenrir, on 09 November 2015 - 12:12 PM, said:

You sir, are my favorite person of the day. I was kind of in the mindset that their one-mech packages were a bad thing.... But you make an excellent point. These one-mech heavy packs are probably the best deals the game has had, once you frame it correctly. Now, if Wasps or Stingers come out this way, there might be more of an argument to be had... And maybe that's why they're doing the one-mech packs with the heavies. Since there are so many of them, they can't balance out packs with them, so they are throwing us a bone. Maybe once we get down to an even number of each weight class, we'll start seeing 4-packs again.

Well considering what they did for the Urbie pack, I'm not holding out a tremendous amount of hope that they'll drop the price... They may need to pack in more goodies to justify that pricepoint seeing that those lights have pitifully few hardpoints. The heavies they've offered so far give you plenty of options (for those that dare to venture beyond the meta), but yeah I think the stock Wasp is a ML and an SRM 2...

[Repasy Cooper]

Nightshade24, on 08 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

I heard the weapon quirks are only being removed on the PTS just for testing purpose so you see more people say use a sensor ability on this mech or the new armour and agility quirks on the other mech instead of Dragon 5N AC 5 spamming?

Not saying they are perfect atm- but I think minor quirks on chassis do help a lot and is a good thing. Otherwise we would have the shadowhawk replacing 5 mechs all at the same time... and sometimes doing 2-3 builds on the same chassis....

What I would prefer for weapon quirks is if they were directly placed on the weapon. For example, a Hellstar manufactured PPC might have higher velocity and increased EMI compared to a General Motors PPC, but on the downside might have a longer cooldown time. Fluff like that would add a nice flavor to the game.

[Twilight Fenrir]

MovinTarget, on 09 November 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

Well considering what they did for the Urbie pack, I'm not holding out a tremendous amount of hope that they'll drop the price... They may need to pack in more goodies to justify that pricepoint seeing that those lights have pitifully few hardpoints. The heavies they've offered so far give you plenty of options (for those that dare to venture beyond the meta), but yeah I think the stock Wasp is a ML and an SRM 2...

The Urbie pack is F*ing awesome XD The trashcan popup cockpit item alone was pretty much worth the pruce of admission XD

[Simbacca]

Wing 0, on 06 November 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

uh.. NO. NOT till you give us back our gamemode selection we had from the previous patch.

I am doing the same. Wallet is closed for the Rifleman.

[xeromynd]

Repasy, on 09 November 2015 - 12:35 PM, said:

What I would prefer for weapon quirks is if they were directly placed on the weapon. For example, a Hellstar manufactured PPC might have higher velocity and increased EMI compared to a General Motors PPC, but on the downside might have a longer cooldown time. Fluff like that would add a nice flavor to the game.

I fully agree, but I have a feeling we'll never see this, simply because of how many more weapons it would add to the roster, and how complicated it would be to 'balance'

[Repasy Cooper]

xeromynd, on 09 November 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

I fully agree, but I have a feeling we'll never see this, simply because of how many more weapons it would add to the roster, and how complicated it would be to 'balance'

Probably not any more difficult to balance than the individual chassis quirks though.

Perhaps there could also be "compatibility bonuses" between certain manufactured equipment and mechs too. They sort of tried that with MechWarrior Tactics. UUUUUUGH I shudder thinking about that game... but that particular idea had merit, I think it's worth a try here.

To elaborate: Say I have a Locust 1V, and I want to equip an array of MGs. I have four from General Motors, four From Magna, and two from Defiance Industries. My Locust 1V has a compatibility bonus with Defiance Industries and a penalty with Magna, so I want to equip those first. However, if I mix weapons of the same type from different vendors, this may make my compatibility worse than if I equip all four from General Motors. So ideally, I would like to purchase/salvage two more from Defiance Industries.

We could combine this with a salvage system, where weapons that are destroyed during a match may lose effectiveness over time, and eventually break! They could be repaired, but only a certain number of times before repairs are ineffective. You could salvage random weapon drops w/ varied conditions, and scrap weapons you own for parts to either fix other weapons of the same type or sell for C-bills. We could even open up a full market of weapon vendors based on player demand and which planets your affiliated faction owns (or perhaps you're a lone mercenary, so you get no bonuses OR penalties on the market).

Edited by Repasy, 09 November 2015 - 01:50 PM.

[Arkhangel]

ASHTAR0N, on 09 November 2015 - 11:05 AM, said:

In a Resistance pack you get 4 mechs with 4 variants, 4 with unique geo/camo/cbill boost +camo patterns + cockpit items +premium time for 80$. (I know the 4th variant is a pre order bonus, but most end up buying it before the deadline anyway.)

Instead if you buy the 3 classics (standard + hero) you get 3 mechs with 4 variants, 3 with unique camo/cbill boost + cockpit items +premium time, no camo patterns for 3*35$=105$.

Of course here it also depends on personal preferences/playstile-> do you consider 3 heavy´s to be worth more than 1assault, 1heavy, 1medium and 1 light? Atleast from a production standpoint its cheaper for PGI to make 3 mechs then 4...


And as I mentioned before: It would be fine with me if they used the money they make with the mechs to produce new content (MRM´s, game modes with objectives, AI, Tanks, Infantry, single player campaign, improving the older mechs...).

that's only if you buy the ENTIRE pack. A'la Carting a single mech FROM said packs is far more expensive.

[MovinTarget]

xeromynd, on 09 November 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

I fully agree, but I have a feeling we'll never see this, simply because of how many more weapons it would add to the roster, and how complicated it would be to 'balance'

If they really want to quirk something, how about giving bonus for using the "stock" equipment.

That would have a couple of effects:

1) you wouldn't necessarily feel you *had* to invest yet more cbills into a chassis you just purchased.

2) As most stock builds are not remotely meta, we may get more non-meta builds out there.

3) Those mechs everyone hates b/c they can't be meta'd may actually become viable again depending on the quirks

and finally...

4) QUIRKS WOULD NOT BE ABUSED SO BADLY because most of the time only if you would be able to change your load out and exploit them, you have to choose to go stock w/ quirks or go custom w/o them.

Edited by MovinTarget, 09 November 2015 - 02:16 PM.