52 replies to this topic

[Yosharian]

So after a few beers yesterday and finding out about the new voting system aka perma-Skirmish, I went off on one raging on the forums about how I hated the new change, and even in-game a few times (with predictable results).

Upon reflection I realise I need to clarify exactly why I hate Skirmish (and Conquest to a lesser extent) so much because it's not immediately obvious why one would prefer a mode with admittedly dumb base objectives.

To explain I'm going to take a slight detour here and talk about a little game I used to play called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare (1 & 2). Yep, game for scrubs, console peasants, etc. Back when the Xbox 360 absolutely dominated, I played this game online and loved the **** out of it.

My favourite mode was Search & Destroy. S&D is an intense, small-scale game mode where you have one life per round and if you die, you're done for that round - no respawns. Players always spawn in the same place and they have two objectives to defend/attack, in different parts of the map. Different strategies can be employed: hanging back with snipers, rushing one objective, splitting into groups, lone wolfing, etc, but it's all based around those objectives. This creates structure within play; although there are different strategies, they can be mostly known and thus it's a bit like chess in that you have to determine what your opponent is going for.

This is not how the majority of CoD players enjoy their game. Oh no. The most popular game mode by far is Team Deathmatch, a mindless, killing frenzy where racking up kills and popping Harrier strikes are the name of the game. Kill someone? Doesn't matter, he's back in 15 seconds with full ammo. There's no structure to TD. It's just kill kill kill. Needless to say, I quickly found I detested this mode and switched to S&D, and never looked back. These days I don't touch CoD, it's gone to ****. But I digress.

Hopefully you can see where I'm going with this.

Skirmish has no structure, no inspiration to group up and coordinate. It's just the equivalent of dropping 24 mechs into a blender and hitting the 'on' button in the hopes of something great coming out at the end. I rarely feel I can achieve impact at all on Skirmish games because it's just absolute chaos most of the time. Now a lot of players love that, and that's completely fine; also, it's the perfect mode for 12-man pro groups who don't want the distraction of the base and just want to refine their coordination and teamwork. There's a reason that Skirmish attracts the best players in the game (and that's another part of my argument but I'll come to that in a moment).

Assault on the other hand has a definite structure to it. This is your base, that's their base. If you abandon certain areas of the map, you're leaving yourself open - and yes Assault has issues at the moment with how capturing is handled, no doubt about it (I personally rarely go for the cap unless my team is severely behind and an opportunity presents itself), but it's still a strategic factor.

The risk of leaving your base open often forces players to strategise together and rally as a group, in a game that frequently lacks any strategy at all, instead collapsing into random chaos. That's what I like about Assault. I've had games in Assault where we've been faced with crappy odds for whatever reason, and have fought it back using strategy or clever tactics, and won. That rarely happens in Skirmish, unless you're a 12-man communicating over TS3.

The other thing that I hate about Skirmish is the frequency with which you come across 12-man or similar groups that are just stomping their way through pugs. Assault is a lot less intense. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy owning with a TBR laser vomit as much as the next guy, but I also like playing different builds and 'fun' lower tier mechs from time to time, in an environment that's not so tryhard.

Anyway that's the reason why I won't play Skirmish mode. If the voting changes aren't rolled back then I really can't see me playing the game much. Hopefully half of this made some kind of sense, anyway.

TL;DR: Skirmish is too chaotic and unstructured - I prefer Assault for its strategy and increased likelihood of some kind of coordination between pugs. I'm not going to play the game if I'm forced to play game modes I detest.

[Joseph Mallan]

Quote

Upon reflection I realise I need to clarify exactly why I hate Skirmish

No. You don't. You are entitled to your opinion and do not require us to understand or accept your feelings toward Skirmish.

[Yosharian]

Joseph Mallan, on 07 November 2015 - 03:56 AM, said:

No. You don't. You are entitled to your opinion and do not require us to understand or accept your feelings toward Skirmish.

Well obviously, what I meant was that I need to clarify in order for my opinion not to be dismissed out of hand.

[El Bandito]

Fascinating stuff. Maybe I should write about "Why I won't play Assault", or "Why I won't play Group Queue", or "Why I won't play Oceanic server, even during events".

Upon further reflection, it dawns to me that I will simply be wasting my time doing that.

[Yosharian]

El Bandito, on 07 November 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Fascinating stuff. Maybe I should write about "Why I won't play Assault", or "Why I won't play Group Queue", or "Why I won't play Oceanic server, even during events".

Upon further reflection, it dawns to me that I will simply be wasting my time doing that.

Bah.

[Joseph Mallan]

Yosharian, on 07 November 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Well obviously, what I meant was that I need to clarify in order for my opinion not to be dismissed out of hand.

Sorry but it will still be dismissed out of hand. It is just how things work in this world. Some folks will agree, some will consider your opinion the rest will think you are a tool and ignore anything you say.

[sneeking]

No need to explain myself, skirmish was my preferred mode and the map never mattered. If i dropped in a twin srm huginn with no machine guns on alpine i would adapt and try to surf the ridge line back and forth on the candy mountain ( with surprisingly great success sometimes ) but while this state of affairs continues my break from the game will likely exceed 12 months.

its the other modes i don't want to play.

[Yosharian]

sneeking, on 07 November 2015 - 04:24 AM, said:

No need to explain myself, skirmish was my preferred mode and the map never mattered. If i dropped in a twin srm huginn with no machine guns on alpine i would adapt and try to surf the ridge line back and forth on the candy mountain ( with surprisingly great success sometimes ) but while this state of affairs continues my break from the game will likely exceed 12 months.

its the other modes i don't want to play.

Personally I don't mind having map voting, but I understand why others dislike it. I think that there have been some good suggestions along those lines (vote out a map instead voting one in for example).

[MechWarrior5152251]

LOL. If you won't "PLAY" Skirmish then you are going to get farmed in Pugland because most matches are going to be Skirmish no matter what the map says. It is funny watching a bunch of idiots trying to cap while I roll a 12 mech Deathball over them one by one.

[Triordinant]

So in the end it's almost like "why I won't play MWO" thanks to the new map voting system that gives you Skirmish almost all the time.

[Mainhunter]

Triordinant, on 07 November 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

So in the end it's almost like "why I won't play MWO" thanks to the new map voting system that gives you Skirmish almost all the time.

We assault and Skirmisch haters still can play CW.

[Triordinant]

Mainhunter, on 07 November 2015 - 05:53 AM, said:

We assault and Skirmisch haters still can play CW.

People play CW?

[MechWarrior3671771]

"LOL. If you won't "PLAY" Skirmish then you are going to get farmed in Pugland"

I don't think you understand. Everything I would want from Skirmish I can get from Assault and Conquest, but better.

Assault is Skirmish+
Conquest is Skirmish++

Skirmish is Vanilla ice cream. I like vanilla, but not 20 times in a row.

And please stop with the "Skirmish is hardcore mode". Skirmish is MWO dumbed down. Its for people who don't want to focus on more than one than objective at once. Its Easy Mode - the proof being that the same people who vote Skirmish are also voting for the coldest map for their meta-laser vomit builds. Its the simplest game mode.

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 07 November 2015 - 06:06 AM.

[Mainhunter]

Triordinant, on 07 November 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

People play CW?

Dunno, didn't play it for months. But it seems I have to.

[Triordinant]

Mainhunter, on 07 November 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Dunno, didn't play it for months. But it seems I have to.

Aha! Maybe that was PGI's plan all along!

[Xoco]

Yosharian, on 07 November 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

Personally I don't mind having map voting, but I understand why others dislike it. I think that there have been some good suggestions along those lines (vote out a map instead voting one in for example).

OK, THAT is a good idea.

@OP: I think I get where you're going, and my opinions are with you. But I think a voting mechanic isn't all that bad. It certainly need fine tuning, but I think it has its pros and cons. Ever since these threads have been popping up, I'm seeing a lot more maps/modes being picked.

[sneeking]

Skirmish is for people who just want a fight, they came for a fight and don't want or need any other pretext or excuses.

People like myself who want to strip the machine guns and armour off the arms of a huginn max the engine and max the srm ammo to the point where 2 points is all you can afford for cockpit glass. Then run off alone in a public drop deep behind enemy lines using Seismic to hunt and see how many fatties backs you can blow out...

I don't know if they realize this but if they ever go live on steam there will be more people than ever wanting to do exactly this so why all the effort been put into constraining our play styles ?

[sneeking]

Fenrisulvyn, on 07 November 2015 - 06:02 AM, said:

the same people who vote Skirmish are also voting for the coldest map for their meta-laser vomit builds. Its the simplest game mode.

Yes simple ( or more accurately straight forward and to the point ) but you're wrong about the kind of people who just want to fight. Its not all vomiting on cold maps for us we are not all the same.

Edited by sneeking, 07 November 2015 - 07:56 AM.

[Mystere]

Triordinant, on 07 November 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

People play CW?

Mainhunter, on 07 November 2015 - 06:05 AM, said:

Dunno, didn't play it for months. But it seems I have to.

Triordinant, on 07 November 2015 - 06:07 AM, said:

Aha! Maybe that was PGI's plan all along!

I did last night and it was glorious. My PUG CJF team wiped IS behinds.

Edited by Mystere, 07 November 2015 - 07:59 AM.

[nehebkau]

I hate skirmish for similar reasons. As a mainly light-mech player I like the flow that either assault or conquest have. With the new voting, I have pretty much given up on the monotone play where there is 1 game mode and 3 maps constantly played and play CW. At least in CW tactics other than "Ball up guys" are employed.