306 replies to this topic

[Jon Gotham]

I'm not understanding all this talk of elitism. Joining a unit and talking to other people isn't elitist. Talking to the other pugs and doing some adhoc co ordination isn't elitist, neither is hopping on your faction's TS and chatting to other players and getting into impromptu premades.

It takes very little time to do. The VAST majority of my "premade" CW playting has been hopping onto HK main TS popping into a group that isn't 12 and asking "have you got a spare spot?"
Takes about 5 mins.

The Davions host weds night warfare, where random solos and solo unit guys with the odd smaller group all hop onto the TS and form up.

And Galenit, don't devalue the internet matey...really don't. I met my girlfriend through playing WoW. I'm moving in with her in the next few months, she's the love of my life. If I thought like you-I'd still be alone. Also her mother has prinzmetal angina and cannot leave the house, her "internet friends" are her social lifeline. Kinda important to her, kinda dismissed by people like you.

We already have a solo Q in place where you can ignore all the other players to your heart's content people, you can derp about and do whatever you want. You can disavow your social responsibility to the other players free of consequence. However for good or ill, CW in it's current form was designed around the COMMUNITY as a whole, not communities of one. This means you really need to communicate and form up to really get the most out of it.
This takes less time and effort than you think.
Rewards are worth it, I got over my silly s**t years ago and have netted many, many rewards because of it. Real life friends, holidays abroad and a wonderful partner.
What's your attitude got you?

[Krellshand]

kamiko kross, on 30 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

You can disavow your social responsibility

Stopped reading there. Can I feel you pulse?

I have exactly 0, no -a billion social responsibility for ppl on the internet

[vandalhooch]

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

Stopped reading there. Can I feel you pulse?

I have exactly 0, no -a billion social responsibility for ppl on the internet

Yep. Because the other pilots in that drop with you aren't humans at all. No need for you to treat them with the same respect you treat real humans in your daily life.

Seriously, I'm thinking I should do the merciful thing and take away your shovel. That hole is looking mighty deep enough already.

[MoeX]

kamiko kross, on 30 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

I'm not understanding all this talk of elitism. Joining a unit and talking to other people isn't elitist. Talking to the other pugs and doing some adhoc co ordination isn't elitist, neither is hopping on your faction's TS and chatting to other players and getting into impromptu premades.

It takes very little time to do. The VAST majority of my "premade" CW playting has been hopping onto HK main TS popping into a group that isn't 12 and asking "have you got a spare spot?"
Takes about 5 mins.

The Davions host weds night warfare, where random solos and solo unit guys with the odd smaller group all hop onto the TS and form up.

And Galenit, don't devalue the internet matey...really don't. I met my girlfriend through playing WoW. I'm moving in with her in the next few months, she's the love of my life. If I thought like you-I'd still be alone. Also her mother has prinzmetal angina and cannot leave the house, her "internet friends" are her social lifeline. Kinda important to her, kinda dismissed by people like you.

We already have a solo Q in place where you can ignore all the other players to your heart's content people, you can derp about and do whatever you want. You can disavow your social responsibility to the other players free of consequence. However for good or ill, CW in it's current form was designed around the COMMUNITY as a whole, not communities of one. This means you really need to communicate and form up to really get the most out of it.
This takes less time and effort than you think.
Rewards are worth it, I got over my silly s**t years ago and have netted many, many rewards because of it. Real life friends, holidays abroad and a wonderful partner.
What's your attitude got you?

I agree that Teamplay is key in this game. But you can have good Teamplay in pug vs pug, even when you're not in a TS or a unit. I always try to communicate with my mates. Especially in CW Teamplay is important. And because it's so important, a unit of experienced, well trained players has a huge advantage over a bunch of enthusiastic, but amateurlike pugs.

P.S. I like how the OP was talking 'bout taking on challenges and honor and sportsmanship mumbo jumbo, but was crying like a baby due to the recent patch notes. It's a challenge! Take it on! Enough whining!

[Krellshand]

vandalhooch, on 01 December 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

Yep. Because the other pilots in that drop with you aren't humans at all. No need for you to treat them with the same respect you treat real humans in your daily life.

Seriously, I'm thinking I should do the merciful thing and take away your shovel. That hole is looking mighty deep enough already.

Respect you have to earn, only pity is for free

[vandalhooch]

Krellshand, on 01 December 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Respect you have to earn, only pity is for free

Says the guy who is whining about getting stomped by better teams. He so values respect that he wants his own special mode where he doesn't have to earn anything.

You have nothing but my pity for every stomp you receive despite knowing exactly how to counter it, including the one my unit and I gave you the other day.

[Krellshand]

vandalhooch, on 01 December 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Says the guy who is whining about getting stomped by better teams. He so values respect that he wants his own special mode where he doesn't have to earn anything.

You have nothing but my pity for every stomp you receive despite knowing exactly how to counter it, including the one my unit and I gave you the other day.

Pity, another of those words I used a post or two back and you picked up and used yourself. If you are so eager to learn new words, I will send you a dictonary, no one shoudl say I have no heart for the disabled!


And if another one earns your respect by playing MWO, you seem to have pretty low standards. Or maybe its the only thing you have to impress others with, so you credit everyone who takes this game (way to) serious?

Or your are impressed easily, thus respect everyone who can lick a spoon.

Maybe a combination of all three..... seeing that you have to succumb to bragging with a premade win against pugs to supplement your argument - which is, by the way, again completly refuted if you just skip thorugh the last pages of this very thread.

But it does seem not only numbers and words are a difficult thing for you, but memory isn´t your strong suit either. Pity. A good word for you indeed. Glad you learned it

Edited by Krellshand, 02 December 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Ano]

MoeX, on 29 November 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

As has been stated above, not everyone has the resources or simply wants to join a unit with ranks. And even if you got friends for a premade, that doesn't mean you got the time to play this game 24/7 with ranks and stuff like you nerds. Pugs and premades should be seperated. It's just no fun at all for the pugs, and you can't tell me you're improving your skill with clan swarming unprepared pugs.

Well of course not everyone wants to be in a unit. And there's nothing stopping people who aren't in a unit playing CW as a solo player. I'm doing exactly that myself. But if you're somehow imagining that 'playing in a unit' means 'playing 24/7' or 'having rank structures' or 'being nerds' then you've a lot to learn about online gaming in general, nevermind MWO. None of those things are requirements, and I'd argue that in the majority of units, they're just not present in any meaningful way.

A counterpoint: if you get your wish, and I can no longer play with/against groups and units but ONLY with other solo players, how am I supposed to learn from the experience of others?

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

Because, Solo Players are not equal NEW players, and thus would have joined a unit long ago if they were interested in what this offers them. And CW is not even new anymore, everyone in the game who is interested in joining units did so long ago. He is trying to get CW more crowded, because its playerbase is thinning out quite badly.
...
And, with all the talk of "challenges", "improving", "choice" and all the other nonsense, why do you even reject the idea of giving solos a randome planet to fight over
...
If its just that you think everyone who plays CW should play it to excell in MWO... get a life. Its a game. No one with half a brain tries to excell here. We drop by and play a round or two for fun

Edited you pretty heavily, Krells, so I could focus my responses.

Who's arguing that players without units are unskilled/new? That's an obviously invalid conclusion but just because you and I choose to play something that is designed as a team game without joining a team (and are able to do so) I'm not sure that means the game design needs to be changed to accommodate us.

We all know why CW doesn't have a solos-only mode. Even if we ignore the design intent for CW and all of the other factors, if you separate solo players and group/unit players in the CW queue, then wait times for *everyone* will be intolerable; the only matches which happen will be the occasional unit vs. unit privately organised match. I certainly don't want to wait any longer for a match.

There are a few reasons why solo players like us can find CW a stompfest -- lack of communication in PuGs, lack of a clear leader, lack of experience, lack of co-ordination wrt. builds, mechs, tactics -- but I think actually a big part of it is that if you don't understand how teams queue for CW, just picking a populous planet or answering a call-to-arms is quite likely to put you up against an organised group and, if your collection of pugs is missing a leader/comms/etc etc, then it's going to be unpleasant.

Galenit, on 30 November 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Online i have some contacts to some names i meet on the net, but they are not friends.
To have a friend i need to know them, need to see their faces and doing rl things that matter with them.
Iam sorry for you, if you think your contacts in the internet are friends.

No.

You can certainly choose not to engage with people you meet online; to consider them as little more than slighter more unpredictable bots if you wish, but that's a choice YOU make. Just because you're incapable of forming meaningful relationships with people over shared interests and activities unless you're eating with them or physically touching them doesn't mean that's a universal truth, or even "normal".

I have relatives who live in Australia. I see them in person perhaps every two years, if that. All of my communications with them are "on the internet". By your rationale, they're no longer relatives and I should stop caring about them.

MoeX, on 30 November 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Time. It's about time. And motivation, but for me, mostly about time. I used to play a different online game in a clan, but not anymore. Not enough time. There are more important things in life than being the best in an online game. Maybe some people who suck in life need this, I don't.

I've been playing this game since the start of the beta, before ECM was even implemented. Who are you to tell me how i should play the game?If I don't want to join a unit and still be able to enjoy CW, I should be able to. I don't understand why there can't be some planets for pugging only and some for elitists like you. When I was still an active clan player and we rolled on public servers it was often boring, unless we met some other teams. So I can't understand what you are getting out of stomping pug teams that are outgunned by your sophisticated teamplay.

You're really all over the place here.

I'm like you. In another game, I was both guild leader and raid leader. But I didn't play 24/7, and we didn't play to "be the best". The idea that joining a group automatically means putting all of your focus and sense of self-worth into being the best is laughably wrong and idiotic. Or possibly just your personal experience (see how generalising an opinion can be insulting?)

I've played MWO for over a year but not joined a unit. When I first started, I just didn't want to be part of something organised. I played the solo queue, and have had a lot of fun. MWO's social features are still pretty limited and the population is relatively small, so it can be hard to find the sort of unit you're looking for if you decide you'd like to play with a regular group.

As for CW: if you don't want to join a unit but do want to enjoy CW, then you're completely able to. I am. But it's a mode that was built around teamplay. Joining a mode which is built around teamplay then complaining when you play against teams seems a bit nonsensical to me.

Also -- if you haven't, do try LFG for CW. The ad hoc groups formed in LFG are zero commitment, but in my (limited) experience, generally give you a fighting chance unless you're unfortunate enough to come up against one of the better 12s.

kamiko kross, on 30 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

We already have a solo Q in place where you can ignore all the other players to your heart's content people, you can derp about and do whatever you want. You can disavow your social responsibility to the other players free of consequence.

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

Stopped reading there. Can I feel you pulse? I have exactly 0, no -a billion social responsibility for ppl on the internet

So you don't see any reason to give the slightest care about other humans playing the same game as you, but you'd like portions of the game to be redesigned to accommodate your human desires? Hm. You're just another "ppl on the internet", why should anyone care what you want?

Edited by Ano, 02 December 2015 - 07:29 AM.

[Lily from animove]

DarkMetalBlade, on 08 November 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

I've already taken steps to change that, & how myself & so many others have done in order to do so is to not touch Community, or should I say, "Unit Warfare" with a ten-foot pole, & stay in the public queues.

I might be only slightly smarter than some of the other PUGs still around this mode, but unfortunately, the only thing that can fix stupid is natural selection.

And whats wrong with joining a units TS? Why do 12 rambos thinking they are chuck norries enter "community" warfare?

Yes you are smart enough to figure out that CW and how it has to be played is nothign for you and stay out. But all those people screaming "I have a problem, someone pelase fix it" - great mentality. Like let your neighbours dog bite you daily by pushing the hand through the fence and blaming the dog for getting biten.

I am in my 3 man clan where 2 people never play and yet it was never an issue to go to the clanners TS grouping up with them. Maybe some people especially in the IS have some authority issue not wanting to play together and accepting that ther eis one leading you and you just do the best following his order. But all those poison and madness the IS pugs throw at their opponent and even against each other, WOW that clearly will imporve their situation.

PyckenZot, on 17 November 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

The only people that have any moral ground to complain about CW disparity are the complete newbies that haven't got a clue where they get themselves into when reacting to a "X needs attackers or defenders."

PGI really needs to have some sort of warning box pop-up when you click CW (disableable of course) informing players this is endgame mode and urging them to group up.

Any other player knows all too well where he/she will get into. And if one refuses to drop CW as a group, well then they have chosen for the sadomasochistic events to follow,...

Previous contract we had was FRR. I dropped plenty of 12-mans organised on the FRR hub. Completed the challenge in half a day.

Well, not entirely, If hes new and not knowing this, he shall have the intelligence to realise, dammit, I probably went into something thats not for me (yet). And guess what some "smart" individuals drop constantly in CW behaving like wild cavemans, and they aren't newbies. It makes me sometimes stop believing in mankind as an intelligent so called "highest evolved" species.

[SpeedyBanana]

I am one of those new players that this game does an excellent job of pushing away. I've been playing for a week, dropped about $30 on MC and bought two mechs during Black Friday. In quick play I do very well. I usually get a few kills and average 350-600+ damage almost every match. I watched some videos and learned all of the tips and tricks a lot of pros use... it's not that hard... and honestly... this game is really not that complicated given that for all its mechs and items and options... there are only a few combinations that are truly viable anyways.

After crushing it in quick play for a week, I decided to play a few hours of CW this evening and I am basically ready to uninstall this game. Who in their right mind would want to deal with the ******** of getting matched up vs. 12-man pre-mades over and over again? For all of those you "vetern" elitist ******* in this thread... try playing solo and see how much fun you have and then maybe you'll understand why this game is on life support with barely anyone playing.

If this game is all about community... why are there no tools to help me get into a community? While I've typed this post I've been sitting in LFG for the last 30 minutes and there are no groups. What exactly am I supposed to do if I do want to play with a group? Nobody is talking in Faction Chat for the last 30 minutes (I've been looking at it while reading this thread).... nobody has an open group... so I guess I'll just re-que solo and get stomped by a premade?

If casual players don't have fun, then you won't have a player base, and when that dies out, then the game dies out, and this game is on its death bed. Hardcore veteran players is not what grows a game, it's just what happens to keep it alive and breathing (for a time) when the developers have made stupid choices that alienate new and casual players.

I'm sure it must be fun stomping pugs in your 12-man premade. Enjoy your fun while it lasts because it's at the expense of the health of the game and what's left of its community and playerbase.

[Moebius Pi]

Much as some might loathe to acknowledge it, Speedy Banana is right; the game is on life support. It needs to provide a welcoming and enjoyable new player experience to survive, continue to make revenue and provide new -worthwhile- content beyond mech-pack-life-support. Some folks are just too full of themselves to acknowledge that; they've got their echo-chamber, their self-congratulatory back patting, and they do well in it's current format. That must mean it doesn't suck right? Low numbers and usage, let alone numerous complaints are entirely unfounded, and the game mode is dying because of "skill cap", rather than, say... what the majority of the community as a whole has said, right?

CW isn't. It was intended to be challenging, but due to numbers, and an overall really, reaaaally unwelcoming community (oh there's a nice segment that are the opposite; overall though it's more the exception), it's become a half-assed competitive leaderboard. Sorta. Kinda. Well not really; it's where the competitive units go to seal club when they're not doing the 3rd Party tourneys, so lets be honest here. It turns off new players, and keeps it a wasteland of BS, Drama and folks literally going "**** this game".

The game can't afford that. Stop pretending otherwise.

Elitist shmucks trying to keep it an ever dwindling sandbox does nothing but -actively harm the game-, and sure as hell doesn't foster community growth. Sometimes you think this wouldn't be even more patently obvious and shown, but I've found a lot of crews are all used-car-salesman smiles with a knife behind their back all the while anyhow.

They don't -want- new players (because their skills aren't on par and they don't want to spend weeks if not months of training folks who don't even have non-trials in their decks), they -need- them to deal with the downward spiral. Or... they just go absent and do those 3rd Party circuits. Usually the latter. The casuals by comparison, well, they keep the mode alive. So do the pugs if you believe PGI's numbers regarding the matches, but remember "**** pugs playing cw" seems to be the jist of a lot of responses on here.

Good job. Keep those numbers dwindling.

The only way I've seen many would-be mentors step up to the plate is when their egos get overly inflated and they put themselves into unelected leadership positions nobody else wanted them in, pretending to "foster CW growth", while really just dictating terms to new players who have no incentive and no reason to listen to them regardless, given that really, they're often overbearing, overly critical and complete strangers beaking off regardless to other strangers. Those new players then go "**** this ****", and gravitate to the primarily Casual units instead. Said Casual units get stomped as well, experience doesn't improve, "**** CW" raises it's head all over again and people just leave the mode. Rinse, wash, repeat.

The proposed intent and the reality is heavily jilted and sure as hell hasn't grown **** all; it has actively -lost- players in more than one faction, and CW as a whole. They go to other games, and the rest pat themselves on the back about "hard mode". It's not "hard mode"; it's a poorly designed, sloppy mess build upon a foundation of lazy decisions.

A matchmaker would be too hard; that would require development time and costs. A leaderboard for general unit conflicts; ditto. Let 3rd parties handle all the heavy lifting there, despite it being -the- way to really have a buck for competitive, and a buck for general unit play beyond solo/non-cw matches so, go figure, people could actually -enjoy the game by majority- and not feel ripped off investing real money in.

Let's pretend that is not the case for a moment.

Really, the problem is "new players whine too much; everyone whines too much, they just don't get the game mode" instead, and hand waive dwindling player numbers, a deplorable new player experience and the usual COD "l33t" player style bias is somehow fostering a positive, constructive environment for the mode and game to thrive when it really needs it.

Lets also pretend I inhaled so much solvent fumes I went so brain damaged to pretend for one moment I actually believed what I just said, because I'd need to be.

Some days, I think this game has a worse community than even League of Legends; at least there I expect to get an overwhelming majority of younger players. In this game? The opposite, and it's still that short sighted and prone to strangling the game to death when it needs a better experience just to live.

[Lily from animove]

SpeedyBanana, on 02 December 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

After crushing it in quick play for a week, I decided to play a few hours of CW this evening and I am basically ready to uninstall this game. Who in their right mind would want to deal with the ******** of getting matched up vs. 12-man pre-mades over and over again? For all of those you "vetern" elitist ******* in this thread... try playing solo and see how much fun you have and then maybe you'll understand why this game is on life support with barely anyone playing.

Sry but reverse question: Who in their right mind goes and plays a unit focused gamemode when there is a solomode?
logical answer: People who can accept that they will be at disadvantage or madmans who have some kind of masochistic fetish about getting angry for getting trashed in a scenario where this is expected btu they know it will make them angry. Just do not go CW solo if you can not deal with the results. Either go with a unit or avoid CW. If poeple would have this bit of common sense and selfawareness

Thats like coming to an MMORPG complaining the devs broke the game because a single guy cannot do the 10 man raid dungeions alone.

[Tom Sawyer]

Need a bit of yin and yang here....

do not tell others you must join a team, if you get pug stomped by such a team then do not complain life is unfair

do not tell others use TS or VOIP, if you choose not to then get jumped because you did not hear a team mate telling you STOP do not complain

sigh, forget it, flogging a dead horse

[Rushin Roulette]

Krellshand, on 01 December 2015 - 02:16 PM, said:

Respect you have to earn, only pity is for free

[Jon Gotham]

MoeX, on 01 December 2015 - 09:00 AM, said:

I agree that Teamplay is key in this game. But you can have good Teamplay in pug vs pug, even when you're not in a TS or a unit. I always try to communicate with my mates. Especially in CW Teamplay is important. And because it's so important, a unit of experienced, well trained players has a huge advantage over a bunch of enthusiastic, but amateurlike pugs.

P.S. I like how the OP was talking 'bout taking on challenges and honor and sportsmanship mumbo jumbo, but was crying like a baby due to the recent patch notes. It's a challenge! Take it on! Enough whining!

Oh I utterly agree! I've had AMAZING pug games in CW where 3-4 peeps start talking and most of the rest talk using the text chat. I was in a pug once that beat a 228 premade.....because we ALL talked and planned together. I really don't get all the "elitist" crap thrown at people sometimes-simply leaving your ego at the door and talking to your team mates improves ALL the game modes by a huge factor. Truoble is, there seems to be so many socially maladjusted people here that simply WON'T talk or work with others, it spoils the game.
The other trouble is, this attitude is carrying over from solo play to all the other modes and rather than man up so to speak and recognize the bare facts of the issue-people just cry and demand everything is changed to suit them...makes me wonder what half of these people are like in real life......

Moebius Pi, on 02 December 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

Some days, I think this game has a worse community than even League of Legends; at least there I expect to get an overwhelming majority of younger players. In this game? The opposite, and it's still that short sighted and prone to strangling the game to death when it needs a better experience just to live.

Again I utterly agree with you, but it's kinda not just this game-it's online players the world over. I consider myself a casual player. I don't take the game to seriously and don't have all day to play. I have other real life responsibilities.
But I do:
Use things like TS
Speak and try to co ordinate in whatever team I'm in
Try to make team oriented decisions whilst in things like CW
Try to group up when I can and speak to other players

Now, that makes me an "elitist" to the "majority" it seems. the fact I understand online multiplayer games are about the people first and game second with team work being the most powerful weapon.
Online games have changed, I saw the first of it back when I first started WoW the massively solo online roleplaying game:)
EVERYTHING has to be easy and solo friendly. EVERYONE that puts some degree of thought and effort in is a tryhard.
Gamers now have never been so lazy and entitled, the whole online experience is ME,MYSELF and I.
Trouble is, those of us "the minority" that like deeper, more meaningful online playtime keep getting told yo shut up, as there is less of us and we are less important. Because it's the waves of solo ubercasuals that are the important ones. Our gaming is dying out.....where do we go to game?
I'm currently struggling to find an mmo I like due to all of them being solo fests at the minute, I've watched my hobby slowly die for me over the past 10 years due to what we now have in MWO.

MWO is dying because it didn't cater to the solo army. It didn't have armoured warfare style PVE-big mistake. PGI still thinks people value being social and teamwork....they don't ME ME ME! They also have barely done ANY advertising...
As for what you said about casuals keeping the game alive? I disagree. The vast majority of casual players (i.e unit/cw players) on my 100+ friends list are now gone. They don't play anymore, nor pay anymore.
If I went for example, you'd need 60 ubercasuals all spending $50 each-just to break even.....

The only things they have in common?
They value group play.
They valued being social.
They wanted actual community warfare.

These are all $2000+ spenders...bad news is that when your paywhales start to walk.

We really need to sort out:
Some form of armoured warfare style pve for the ubercasuals-maybe a campaign mode?
A mission creator for said pve mode (you could recreate lore battles etc).

Proper leagues for group play-in game with actual prizes, like maybe custom decals/skins/mc etc.
Some form of in game hiring hall for groups.
Grouping needs to be promoted, maybe a bonus depending on group size?

Proper chat lobbies to facilitate said grouping.
A shallower economy curve, people need to earn more money.

MUCH better communication with the community, maybe focus this on the launcher as many can't be bothered to do the forum thing.

CW, oh boy it NEEDS a reason to hold territory-maps need redesigns to avoid the killzone funneling....


But most of all, our community needs a reality and attitude check.

[Moebius Pi]

I fully agree that CW is best played with communication, coordination, and at least a partial team vs going pure solo (without any form of communication or coordination); hell, every game mode works better with that (though it's hard with complete strangers and inevitably some shmuck wants to pretend to be top dog then ***** when they get bitten trying to mount the rest). That said, the game itself has a very, very poor social interface, very little incentive to keep playing (that whole planets don't matter thing; the proposed last changes don't do much better on that end), and most of all... a deplorable new player experience.

Hell, it has a deplorable -established- player experience. It's a failure in its intended purpose; it hasn't given people what they wanted in a more organized format over, say, group queue. It has a high c-bill/pay wall for everyone to build effective drop decks for. It has an entirely unewelcoming overall community to new players that -would- drift from the solo/pug (despite PGI's assertions they make up the vast majority, that isn't me, that's PGI's data talking) if the overall experience in-game and community wise was more positive.

Instead, as you said, they leave. The stubborn ones or the folks who still squeeze enjoyment out stay, or the ones without another game that's quite the perfect storm this one is via mechs.

Folks aren't elitist for making a unit, playing and practicing together, though a lot seem to be trying to make that out as to why they're assumed to be elitists (and it's kinda transparent in some cases why they're spinning things that way and rather sad). I can't think of any common and legitimate complaints that really stem from that, vs the difficulties of small groups vs large organized ones dominating the scene.

People are elitist when they outright hand waive, insult and harass the new folks having trouble finding a reason to give it a good shot, while stubbornly trying to keep a failed game mode "as is" to keep their king **** of **** mountain placement. Because. "Hard Mode". No shortage of that even on these forums. No shortage of that either in CW. They want their farming intact, because "Hard Mode" isn't CW; it's the tourneys.

I've ran into no shortage of that, to the contrary in fact, I've been -directly told- by unit higher ups of multiple "badass" units CW doesn't matter, and they go there to farm when not doing the tourneys and not much else. Flat out. Something to kill time with when utterly bored (and in some cases how they've gamed the tournaments, nice, eh?) because they can farm it readily and easily. They go on attack because it's guaranteed to get far more pug defenses to stomp to boot, with the added benefit of making for quicker drops, but that at least in part stems from the poor CW setup.

When I had folks actively gleeful and happy in a 12 man drop that they "were up against skittles" rather than another organized group among more casual players, I had enough. There was always some jackasses trying to farm -someone-. They didn't want a challenge, they wanted easy LP and c-bills.

To hear some units talk though, they'd swear up and down they've never said or done the above, because they're top performers and competitive. On the forums at least. Hop into a drop with them on TS though... and suddenly it's the reverse.

The same shitheads then come back to the forums spewing about community growth, outright lie as to why they bother with CW (until you're on TS or elsewhere that is), dictate how to play CW effectively (while slamming the folks wanting to shake things up, because meta boredom), then feel it's their place to reorganize entire factions in their self-centered, egotistical images. When the casuals (nevermind the outright solos) leave continually and complain about an undeniably ****** game mode, it's their stated as their fault, and a condescending "git gud scrub", only to repeat the same behaviors again later.

THAT is why you get the term "Elitist" tossed around by the way. Some folks just want to pretend there's a massive portion of the game that's somehow jealous and fuming that they have the gall to use teamwork. You'll get some rare exceptions that are, but really... no, it's the above that gets those sentiments going and running deep, and it's by no means rare.

Reality checks related to this game are in short supply it seems.

[vandalhooch]

Krellshand, on 02 December 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Pity, another of those words I used a post or two back and you picked up and used yourself. If you are so eager to learn new words, I will send you a dictonary, no one shoudl say I have no heart for the disabled!

Are you really that dense? I chose that word precisely because you used it earlier. I'm purposely using your own words against you.

Do you want me to link you a text on basic debate tactics?

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And if another one earns your respect by playing MWO, you seem to have pretty low standards. Or maybe its the only thing you have to impress others with, so you credit everyone who takes this game (way to) serious?

Or I can have respect for a human just because they are a human while also respecting or not respecting their abilities or skills in a game. I'm actually capable of holding complex ideas like "a human's skill in a game is not who that human is as a person." But, maybe you are telling me that that is just beyond your ability, and that is just sad.

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Or your are impressed easily, thus respect everyone who can lick a spoon.

Respect for a human is not the same as respect for their skills at a game.

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Maybe a combination of all three..... seeing that you have to succumb to bragging with a premade win against pugs to supplement your argument

Says the guy who had to make sure everyone knew that he averaged 2K damage in Faction Play drops against PUGs.

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- which is, by the way, again completly refuted if you just skip thorugh the last pages of this very thread.

Your team got wrecked in that drop. There is no refuting that fact.

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But it does seem not only numbers and words are a difficult thing for you, but memory isn´t your strong suit either. Pity. A good word for you indeed. Glad you learned it

Oh, your team actually won that drop? Nope.

Edited by vandalhooch, 04 December 2015 - 01:04 AM.

[vandalhooch]

SpeedyBanana, on 02 December 2015 - 08:39 PM, said:

I am one of those new players that this game does an excellent job of pushing away. I've been playing for a week, dropped about $30 on MC and bought two mechs during Black Friday. In quick play I do very well. I usually get a few kills and average 350-600+ damage almost every match.

1 - Instead of trying to tell us what you think your average is, why not go to your mech stats and calculate what your damage per match really is. Human memory doesn't work the way you think it does.

2 - Sounds like you are picking up skills in this game pretty quickly. Good for you. I know my learning curve was much, much steeper.

3 - Not to be a jerk, but moderate success as a Tier 4 in the Quick Play / solo queue is not really all that impressive. Your opponents are primarily pilots who are just as new to the game as you or longer term pilots who are extremely casual (a few drops per week). You don't face very many Tier 2 pilots. They are most often pulled into Tier 1 matches because Tier 4 and 5 can't drop with/against Tier 1's.

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I watched some videos and learned all of the tips and tricks a lot of pros use

"Some" videos taught you "all" the tips and tricks? Really?

There is a huge difference between being aware of a skill or technique and being able to perform said skill on demand. Just because I watch a video on how to shoot a foul shot in basketball doesn't mean that I'll be making 98% of my foul shots in the next game I play.

You only gain skill through intense practice. Your instincts for how and when to roll damage need to be muscle memory. You need to be able to instantly recognize different mechs and target the most vital location on the mech without having to think about it. Situational awareness of what mechs are around you and where you should be based upon what kind of mech you are in and what kind of opponents you are facing comes from long hours of experience, not from watching a few YouTube videos one afternoon.

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... it's not that hard... and honestly... this game is really not that complicated given that for all its mechs and items and options... there are only a few combinations that are truly viable anyways.

Truly viable? There are people in my unit that not only learn the meta, they often create the meta. Those pilots can take any mech and optimize it for battle, They could then take that "trash" mech and get 700-900 damage in a Tier 1 match. Those are real sharks.

Players who really understand the game are capable of building their own mechs for their own play style and then wreck face with it. Don't get me wrong, when faced with opponents who they know are highly skilled, my teammates will opt for the very best of the best possible for the given drop.

Good players are not limited to "a few combinations that are truly viable" that they copied from someone else.

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After crushing it in quick play for a week,

"Crushing it." How cute. Not really accurate, but cute.

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I decided to play a few hours of CW this evening and I am basically ready to uninstall this game.

Yep, You got a small taste of what players who really are good at the game are capable of. What happened to your "crushing it" skills?

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Who in their right mind would want to deal with the ******** of getting matched up vs. 12-man pre-mades over and over again?

Did you skip the videos explaining that CW was designed around organized, coordinated teams attempting to capture/defend planets in the name of different factions? Or were you too busy "crushing it" to notice that you received a pop-up alerting you to the likelihood that your "crushing skills" are not likely going to be of much use as a Rambo noob.

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For all of those you "vetern" elitist ******* in this thread... try playing solo and see how much fun you have and then maybe you'll understand why this game is on life support with barely anyone playing.

I would hazard a guess that the vast majority of players who still regularly drop in CW spend a large part of that time dropping solo or in small groups of two or three. I know I spend only around half of my CW drops in any group larger than six.

When CW was first released most attack phases saw hundreds if not a few thousand pilots dropping at the same time. The drop off in participation is due to no new features that increase the depth and complexity of the game being added in the last 12 months.

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If this game is all about community... why are there no tools to help me get into a community?

I totally agree with you here. There really isn't much included directly in the game to help a new pilot get connected with veteran CW players and units. Not too mention an in game method for facilitating faction-wide, asynchronous discussions. These forums are OK, but they require players to be away from the game and for many people that simply feels "wrong."

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While I've typed this post I've been sitting in LFG for the last 30 minutes and there are no groups.

Unfortunately you joined the game and more specifically a faction that is kind of in sleep mode right now. During the early months of CW, Kurita had many, many small to medium sized units that were intensely interested in the way in which the star map evolved as the mode progressed. Most of the players from those units have either drifted away from the mode, away from MWO itself or have joined other units currently contracted to other factions.

My own unit is historically tied to Kurita through at least three different iterations of Mechwarrior. But, we have only recently returned to Kurita after spending several months in all of the other factions in order to earn the low level loyalty rewards as well as spending time playing with Clan tech. If you are really interested in dropping with a Kurita unit, send me a friend request in game and be sure to stop by the House Kurita teamspeak server (housekurita.tserverhq.com). That is usually a much better way to find other veteran CW players. In fact, as I type this, there is a mixed-unit group of ten players dropping in CW right now.

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What exactly am I supposed to do if I do want to play with a group? Nobody is talking in Faction Chat for the last 30 minutes (I've been looking at it while reading this thread).... nobody has an open group... so I guess I'll just re-que solo and get stomped by a premade?

Search the forums for the teamspeak addresses for all the different faction and unit hubs. That is currently the best way to get hooked up with other players. Just don't join up thinking you are there to teach all these "veteran, elite ________" how to play the game.

Join in. Listen to instructions. Follow instructions. Asking questions is fine, just don't do it during the drop itself.

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If casual players don't have fun, then you won't have a player base, and when that dies out, then the game dies out, and this game is on its death bed. Hardcore veteran players is not what grows a game, it's just what happens to keep it alive and breathing (for a time) when the developers have made stupid choices that alienate new and casual players.

While you appear to be picking up basic piloting skills fairly quickly, don't think that that will be the experience of most new pilots. This game has always been kind of hard on "casual" players.

Also, it is completely possible to be a casual player and also be a member of a unit. Don't let the other forum whine-babies tell you otherwise. There are nearly as many types of units as there are types of pilots.

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I'm sure it must be fun stomping pugs in your 12-man premade. Enjoy your fun while it lasts because it's at the expense of the health of the game and what's left of its community and playerbase.

The stomping of PUGs in and of itself isn't really all that fun. But dropping with teammates that have become friends and sharing banter and cracking jokes is fun. Think of a PUG stomp as just a few pals hanging around and shooting some hoops. When we end up dropping against a more organized opponent it's like a scrimmage on the court. True, competitive games, with all the fancy dress and intense planning and practice is reserved for league and challenge matches. And not all members of my unit are expected to be a part of that aspect if they don't want.

In short, don't give up on the game yet. Get some help. Don't be afraid to admit that you are still learning and you'll find most other players are happy to help. Although you might end up getting your ear talked off by one of the known "minutia experts" that can drone on and on and on . . . . (What up Deathlike! Mad props Conreg!)

Just don't show up expecting everyone to instantly "recognize" your skills because you really don't have any right now. And neither did anyone else when they started.

Edited by vandalhooch, 04 December 2015 - 01:03 AM.

[Commander A9]

I just want to say for the record...

That I don't appreciate ANYONE having the gall to go as far as to threaten me, my drop team, my unit, or the people I choose to play with at any time.

Some of the players we encountered tonight were so furious over our combat effectiveness and the fact that we were winning that they went as far as to threaten us during the drop.

That kind of crap is going way beyond the scope of a videogame. Check yourselves-now.

[Zibmo]

vandalhooch, on 01 December 2015 - 12:02 AM, said:

Yep. Because the other pilots in that drop with you aren't humans at all. No need for you to treat them with the same respect you treat real humans in your daily life.

Seriously, I'm thinking I should do the merciful thing and take away your shovel. That hole is looking mighty deep enough already.

What? Respect is not the same as obligation, is it? Is he "obligated" to play a way that you (or anyone else) has prescribed?

He owes nothing that is not freely given - from him, or by others. And a quick way to be disappointed in humanity is to expect behavior that is anything but completely selfish. When you get something besides "me me me" you are surprised and probably reach out to that person. But others are more closed. And you don't open them up (or, in fact, do anything but prove their point to them) by giving them a hard time.

TLDR: your expectations are meaningless to most internet denizens.