306 replies to this topic

[TheLuc]

PVE was and still is the solution since day one, the system has to stop relying on active population. 60% of the issues in MWO will be solved with PVE.

[MechPorn]

TheLuc, on 11 May 2016 - 10:14 AM, said:

PVE was and still is the solution since day one, the system has to stop relying on active population. 60% of the issues in MWO will be solved with PVE.

PVE (Player VS Environment) is a short sighted solution that offers a limited capacity. Playing against players creates new and interesting dynamics, something a PVE would not continue to produce.

[Psychorat]

MechPorn, on 11 May 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

Instead of quoting "Learn to Play", "Get Better" and numerous other complaints, we should really soul search for possible solutions instead of poisoning peoples view of the game and possibly your Clan/House/Unit.

A simple solution:
1- Download teamspeak,
2- search the forum here or ask in faction chat for your faction teamspeak (davion, clan wolf, kurita...)
3- engage conversation, you will find great people there ready to explain where to go to wait/ask for group, and get your first "coopérative" drop.
4- have fun

No need to be in a huge unit to organise with others from your faction. But you may end up playing with them and liking it enough to join after...

Now if you still want to drop solo and insist of doing so in faction play, accept that you will be in disadvantage for doing so and stop complaining. I still go solo from time to time just for fun, and while not expecting to win, trying to get my 4 most damage done and 1000+ damage. It is good training and sometime I still get to win.

[ArmandTulsen]

Thread title: "Enough Whining."

*Thread gets 12 pages of whining....*

[Bluttrunken]

I read threads like this way too often by now.

[Czarr]

usually when someone is whining on VOIP about stupid stuff I just mute them. I am here to chew bubblegum and kill mechs and I'm all out of bubblegum, I am not trying out for the pro leagues or trying to be "l33t" and I don't care if we lose or win. Yes I prefer winning but my first priority is having fun and if you spoil the fun, i'll mute you so I don't have to listen to your man-baby temper tantrum. I do think that PGI should make it easier to report, I have been Teamkilled cause I killed an enemy in scout missions and that was a big "no no" from a idiot on my team so he killed me. Never knew that it said on the EULA that it's ok to TK someone for not doing exactly what they say

but yea I hate those "too many chiefs not enough Indians" situations in which everyone is acting like General Patton giving orders. That's why I never lead drops...I prefer being the indian

Edited by Czarr, 11 May 2016 - 08:54 PM.

[MischiefSC]

MischiefSC, on 03 August 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

Okay.

However the statistical average for how often the bulk of mercs end up on the same side of a conflict vs opposing sides doesn't actually carry out the hypothesis that it's just semi-random voting answer everyone making a decision in a vacuum.

The statistical average points to the bulk of mercs (MS included) gravitating to the position that will get them the most drops vs pugs. Kurita, for example, on your last trip would have gotten insta-drops on defense all day. Steiner at any point over the last 3 months would have been insta-drops against CJF.

Instead most mercs (MS included) go where they can draw the most pugs when dropping in attack queue - even if that's ghost drops. Which still pay, right? And dem tags!

Not making a moral judgement here just an observation. MS goes where they can draw pugs to the defense queue. Most merc units do, because attack is easier than defense and faster for flipping matches and steamrolling mostly pugs in the defense queue pays way better than losing to other coordinated teams doing it to you 50% of the time.

Hence the value of collapsing attack/defend into one queue per front.

At this point though the idea that most people in most factions know more about who's going where than MS does isn't likely. Nor is the argument of "we want good matches" really valid as the system itself rewards going to whoever is winning currently and helping their attack queue roll the suicide pugs who can't resist going there, even if it's mostly ghost drops rather than defense queue against the same.

The problem is that with a broken system like what we have now you're either exploiting it to your advantage or being exploited by it. Can't blame anyone for not wanting to take the less profitable option.

Just don't pretend it's just a coincidence.

My quote from another thread where this was off-topic.

Don't take that post as being critical of MS - or large units. It's critical of the system in place that creates the situation.

There is no real benefit to dropping defense. It's a losing proposition. Conversely the mechanics for FW strongly reward units for dropping in attack and actively seek to fill defense with pug teams. It's a crappy system and hopefully PGI makes a smart choice and combines attack/defend queues and largely solves that issue.

What I find funny is how everyone tries to say they don't play to that mechanic though. Of course they do. It's not that merc units meet in closed TS and coordinate who's going where - though, again, please don't tell me MS has no clue what units are going where or are actively where. Everyone knows, there's no magic to it. The only thing worse than trying to say nobody in MS voting knows anything about what anyone else is doing is the idea that nobody in MS voting actually knows anything about what anyone else is doing. If that's the case... seriously. Hit me up and I'll let you know. Or go look at the leader-board, or look at why you're likely to vote what you're voting. If you're thinking 'I bet we can get drops while attacking there', so is most everyone else.

That's the thing though. Most merc units are looking at the same thing - where can they get drops on attack, preferably as Clans (which have a slight edge right now after the last round of nerfs). So the same logic tends to apply to most of them. There's a few who really do go look for 'good fights' and will happily drop defense but they're the exception to the rule.

Ironically when MS was largely absent for a few weeks a bit ago FW ran just fine - because, at the end of the day, it's those suicide pugs who actually make FW function. The ones who look at the queues, see 'Huh, that worlds over 80% taken! Exactly 60 attackers, only 32 defenders. 8 solo pugs in queue.... PERFECT. I'LL DROP THERE ON DEFENSE! THAT WILL GO WELL!' They're the meat that feeds the grinder. Their relentless willingness to fail again and again and again, 9 out of 10 drops, day in and day out is all that keeps FW going. When big units go away all that happens is the wait times in attack to get drops declines. There's always plenty of suicide puggles in bad decks gleefully losing match after match after match. Like a dog that won't leave no matter how much it's beaten.

If MS, or HHoD, or 228, or any unit really quit tomorrow FW wouldn't care. What matters is when the puggles finally decide they're not having fun losing 9/10 drops. When that happens, what are you going to do? Drop defense? LOL.

That's the losers game. That, at it's core, is the problem.

[Armando]

Diddi Doedel, on 10 May 2016 - 02:43 AM, said:

I think in many of the arguments posted here two clearly distinguishable aspects get intermixed.
One aspect is skill as a solo player but also as a team player, which may be vastly different from oneanother, the other aspect being part of a (temporary) group along with the willingness to act in concert with the other members of said group.

Being able to dominate within a quickplay match, where basically only your own performance counts is quite a different experience to playing with a group which follows a strategy that may or may not include sacrificing some mechs in order to achieve a bigger goal.
The higher the level of communication and planning within your team as opposed to the other team, the higher the chances to win a game even when your team has the lesser skilled players. True, exceptionally good players can turn sides, but statistically it is the better organized team that wins the day.

And here starts and also ends the "problem" with solo players. If no form or organisation is achieved, they will lose to any halfway organized team. If they even face a high organized opposing team that also performs better than average, they are likely to get steamrolled, massacred, slaughtered, seal-clubbed or whatever you want to call it.
That leaves you, the solo player, with only two options:
a ) bring organisation into your team
b ) join an already organized team

Option a ) can be achieved through various means. You can drop call and thus take charge of your team, in hopes the rest of your team follows your lead. Or you follow someone else drop call. Having ingame VoIP enable is essential to this. Don't worry about making mistakes. Even a bad call is better than no call. And you will learn more about the game and organizing groups regardless wether you win or lose, call or follow someone elses call.

Option b ) can also be achieved through various means. Easiest way is joining an active unit. But most houses, hell, even most units welcome guests on their channels to join in organized drops. Most units are also willing to share their knowledge on optimized builds or preferable mech choices with guests.

If you drop solo, with VoIP disabled, don't expect a pleasant time in CW/FP. Few people have the time or skill to type tactical suggestions/commands while moving/playing.

So, in summary, my advice to solo players would be: Have VoIP enabled, and communicate. And maybe, just maybe, try to find a drop group in one of the public teamspeak servers. It normally enhances your gaming experience by magnitudes !

This is a finely crafted post, filled with useful and accurate information....CLEARLY it has not place on the MWO forums. /wink

[Commander A9]

I'm continually amazed by the harassment 12-man drop teams receive from their opponents, especially when the 12-mans gain the advantage in a match.

What's more amazing is that people find the performance of 12-man's to be a "problem."

[MischiefSC]

Nothing wrong with playing as a 12man. A more legitimate concern is people pugging in pug only teams.

I love Deathlikes solution of paying more to units that drop in less than 12s. It rewards teams for wrapping pugs in and rewards pugs for playing to the team.

[diablo595]

I am not responsible when fw is a complete ghost town

[DaFrog]

Commander A9, on 05 August 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

I'm continually amazed by the harassment 12-man drop teams receive from their opponents, especially when the 12-mans gain the advantage in a match.

What's more amazing is that people find the performance of 12-man's to be a "problem."

No. The issue is not 12 man. The issue is level of proficiency.

Green
Regular
Veteran
Elite

Being in a 12 man in no ways guarantee you will be competitive against EVIL. But respecting the level of proficiency would mean that more often that not, matches would be competitive as opposed to lobster farming.

[Crockdaddy]

Overwatch has a nice system for building up your 6 man team. Suggestions for the "tank" "healer" "sniper" as roles are filled / vacant ... and their is a COMP queue vs public queue ... oh wait Overwatch has 15 million players already. Welp ... back to Ark OfficialPrimitivePlus1PVP (join us!).

[MischiefSC]

You guys back to punching dinos? I haven't played Primitive, is it fun?

[Spider00x]

MechPorn, on 11 May 2016 - 09:40 AM, said:

The major issue with CW, is the organized play vs the unorganized play. You will always run into this issue no matter what team queue you are in.

There are no simple solutions and increasing weight is not really a solution to the issue as well. The separate queues was a good idea, but alas...not enough players in either to support it.

Instead of quoting "Learn to Play", "Get Better" and numerous other complaints, we should really soul search for possible solutions instead of poisoning peoples view of the game and possibly your Clan/House/Unit.

A possible solution is to rotate between team queues and solo drops. Instead of having this all occur at once, you can team queue as scouting while the solo queue is invasion.

As for solo drops, you click a button and are assigned a planet, There would be no I choose this planet with my friends...

I like the idea of doing QP but with clan vs IS, like basically death match between the two no specific factions. These QP matches would take place on a certain planet and the results could maybe like scouting effect invasion somehow, perhaps in a more obtuse way that scouting does.

[Drunk Canuck]

Khereg, on 08 November 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

In PGI's defense, they aren't in business to teach people how to be grownups.

Well, one would think that based on the average age of the BattleTech fan, you'd have thought that the average player has more balls than much of this community does.

[Wilhelm Kerensky]

The entire crux of the whole argument boils down to this: This is not Call of Duty. This is not Battlefield. N00bing around with the mystical (and non-existent) super-builds, and/or cheating, is not going to help you win or become an effective Mechwarrior. Like anything in real life, or the military, you need to train in order to be effective. You cannot simply "buy" your way to win in this game - the biggest, best-loaded assault mech is nothing but a lumbering target of opportunity and C-Bills to skilled players and teams if the person piloting it has no skill and expects to "click a button" and insta-win because they paid [X] amount of dollars.

Having a chance at winning in the game REQUIRES you to be a team player. Every member of a team, whether PUG or part of a unit, is essential to the success of everyone, including themselves. Everyone is important, and needs to take the role they choose seriously, using it to best effect to work towards victory, or at least a good fight. The best way to accomplish that is to get yourself some mechs, customize them based on external recommendations and your preferred play style, then PLAY with them. A LOT! Know your builds' limitations, correct the flaws, and get GOOD with them!

Our units (Mercstar [-MS-] & Mercstar Reserve [MS-R]) are repeatedly accused / derided for supposedly using cheating programs because we win. A LOT. We don't win every time but we are quite successful, overall. Even we have our feared adversaries, but they are not pure PUG groups. We use absolutely no cheats whatsoever, and we will get rid of anyone who does. We pride ourselves on our abilities and personal skill. We train. We have proven methods, and builds which can consistently pump out damage.

We play the game. A LOT!

I leave this message to anyone who wants to complain about us, or has some imaginary beef with us beating them time and again, as I met someone in Quick Play who had a negative outlook but never played with or against us before:

Join us in battle. Come drop with us, join us on our Teamspeak server (we use version 3), listen to and follow our drop calls, take our suggestions to heart, be a general team player, and see if you don't improve in the course of simply playing the game with us.

We have no animosity towards anyone in general, and are very open to those who want to not only improve, but really get good, learning the pride and feeling of accomplishment that comes from knowing you helped the team defeat your enemies in battle, and perhaps also dishing out a good bit of "honorable warriors on the battlefield" ***-whooping. There is no other feeling like it, and I enjoy my time with the guys, and girls, who are a part of our teams.

Join us in battle, and find out for yourself what we're really like!

* EDIT *

I forgot to mention: For those of you who think you know otherwise, don't delude yourself any further - PGI (or at least one prominent person we all are familiar with) actually really hates us. The whole "50K C-Bills x [number of unit members] price to invite" schtick that has damaged the ability for all units to recruit? That was a direct attempt to cripple our units' recruitment flow, seeing as how we are one of (if not the) biggest units in MWO right now and kept growing because people actually liked playing (and winning) with us.

Edited by Wilhelm Kerensky, 08 August 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[MischiefSC]

I dropped with MS for a couple of weeks. It was good fun, I recommend it to anyone and everyone. Pug or unit member. You'll learn something. Be that tools for managing your unit or strats for playing FW or tactics for how to play in a group.

Absolutely worthwhile.

The inherent problems however of units always attacking and pugs defending? That's a big issue and needs addressed. I confess a tiny sliver of hope (which is, I have no doubt, doomed) that PGI understood what was said in the round table discussion and will actually combine attack/defend queue to eliminate that critical issue in FW design.

[gloowa]

MischiefSC, on 07 August 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

I dropped with MS for a couple of weeks. It was good fun, I recommend it to anyone and everyone. Pug or unit member. You'll learn something. Be that tools for managing your unit or strats for playing FW or tactics for how to play in a group.

Absolutely worthwhile.

The inherent problems however of units always attacking and pugs defending? That's a big issue and needs addressed. I confess a tiny sliver of hope (which is, I have no doubt, doomed) that PGI understood what was said in the round table discussion and will actually combine attack/defend queue to eliminate that critical issue in FW design.

Speaking of design, i'm gonna tell you a story, which might be useful.

There is a certain multiplayer game, that up to fairly recently only had single-match-skirmish mode. The game has not too big a player base, but that playerbase wanted something more involving, including factions, map, and struggle for territory. So the company spent a lot of time and released a new module, with factions, fighting for territory, capturing it, gaining rewards for the faction, etc, etc. The game i'm talking about is suprisingly not MWO, it's Guns of Icarus. And let me tell you, their "faction warfare" module (currently in alpha preview) is something interesting to look at, from a design standpoint. It avoids many issues that popped up in MWO - Guns of Icarus has like 400 players at peak time, and yet the matches start regularly without 10 minute wait times, and even with 4 factions that divide players between them, there are no real population issues. Granted, their FW is PvE, but there are many design solutions in that game that would work quite nicely in MWO communiy/faction warfare/play/whatever.

[Wilhelm Kerensky]

MischiefSC, on 07 August 2016 - 11:11 PM, said:

I dropped with MS for a couple of weeks. It was good fun, I recommend it to anyone and everyone. Pug or unit member. You'll learn something. Be that tools for managing your unit or strats for playing FW or tactics for how to play in a group.

Absolutely worthwhile.

We're always happy to have skilled and cooperative players join us in battle, even if not in the unit! I'm sure we'll enjoy your joining us again in the future!

Quote

The inherent problems however of units always attacking and pugs defending? That's a big issue and needs addressed. I confess a tiny sliver of hope (which is, I have no doubt, doomed) that PGI understood what was said in the round table discussion and will actually combine attack/defend queue to eliminate that critical issue in FW design.

Actually, I've been in quite a few matches where we were defending and PUGs were attacking, and it was usually a sad outcome on their part. We usually went on the offensive just to finish the match so we could maybe have a good challenge in the next drop...

The way that CW queues work is that they want to fill the 12-man requirement ASAP, so if there is a 12-man group (or one with enough men to fill out the balance of PUGs waiting for a match) it will start the drop much faster. This means that if a bunch of PUGs (or part of a unit and some PUGs) team up together in a common CW group lobby BEFORE picking a planet, then try to attack or defend, they will get drops MUCH faster against full 12-person enemy teams! This means more experience, more action, more XP, and more C-Bills! The ultimate goal you want to achieve is exactly 12 people so that you'll get dropped as soon as there is a 12-opponent group available... otherwise, you'll probably be waiting in "PUG queue" for quite a while.

If you are part of a PUG group, though, you should have a viable drop deck for the map you're going to be dropping on, as well as one that compliments the rest of the drop squad. Only use trials to learn your preferred style and earn some C-Bills, then get yourself some real mechs, customize them with help from websites / fellow Mechwarriors, and generally follow what I espoused in my last post. If you want a better advantage, but don't want to spend much money, then get a year's worth of Premium Time - it is worth the money if you are even semi-serious about the game, because the bonuses to XP and C-Bills help you get a Drop Deck By You ™ much quicker... Also, the ability to do trial runs with your builds, where you run around maps getting a feel for them and learning their actual viability, is really sweet!