306 replies to this topic

[Aargh Tenna]

habu86, on 19 August 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Interesting that you see yourself as a victim. It's a cold thing to say, but this is a PvP environment, where the other guys want to win just as badly, if not more so than you. Quick question: when you played ball as a kid, did you see yourself as a victim when you lost? Did you see the other team as aggressors?

Large skill and experience imbalances are never fun, especially when you're on the wrong side of the equation, but framing it in terms of victimization is taking a game a bit far IMO. Sure, we all have games we don't enjoy. It's okay to sulk a bit when you're not doing well, and maybe go do something else for a while if you're having an off day. But to frame it in the context of victims and aggressors, that's... projecting a whole range of other issues on your experience.



So do a lot of other people, at all ends of the skill spectrum. The money that you spend entitles you to certain in-game features e.g. reduced grind times, private match instances, extra mech bays, "special" mech variants, paints and other pieces of flair. It does not entitle you to demand that the other team fight with one hand tied behind their backs simply because you choose to do so.



You can choose to improve or not improve at whatever pace you like. So does everyone else. The game and the other players most definitely do not need to change in order to personally accommodate you. Sorry not sorry, it's the way shared social spaces work.

First, I am not saying I am a victim, I am saying that clubbed seals are. Are they not? Also, in no way I am judging success. Your logic is sound, and difficult to argue with. If it works, then absolutely, you right. But does it work? Is FW a success? If it does not, or if you have doubts, then I suggested something that I thought was a good idea. If it was not, well.. I do not have other ideas, do you?

Consider this: let's say you enjoy the game as it is because it works for you and your 11 friends you drop with. Let's say there are another 1000 people like you and another 11 thousand friends *they* have. Is it enough to sustain PGI? Is it enough to hire more coders with, you know, skills? Do you want PGI to expand and MWO to grow? If you (or PGI, rather) do, then they should try to be inclusive, which means accommodating players, not the other way round, PVP or not. That's how business works IMHO. Tyranny of the majority and all that, unfortunately.

As for casual units, point taken - but I was not talking about myself personally, it is just that I want MWO and FW to grow into mmm, bigger success than they are now.

[DaFrog]

Commander A9, on 20 August 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

It is not my responsibility as a player to get you to play this game. It's not my job to keep anyone in this game. It's not my job to recruit, and there's no incentive to recruit anyone into this game to begin with: No MC, no C-Bills, no achievements for signing up new accounts. Nothing.

The job of recruiting and player retention is PGI's-not mine. Why? Because they're the ones getting paid to recruit and retain-I am not.

You are not my client, so if I beat you, PGI isn't going to fire me or fine me or call me into their office to threaten me. Should I downgrade my performance for fear of my enemy quitting this game because I beat him? No.

Although Sun Tsu would say "To win 100 battles is not the height of skill-to subdue your enemy without fighting is."

I do get friends involved: I get friends involved or who are already playing to join MercStar, to drop with MercStar, to learn with MercStar, and win with MercStar, not to play alone or scatter about the universe. When I recruit, I bring them to my team, to join my group, to learn with my group, and win with my group.

What is my job? My job is to play to support my team. My job is to recruit for my team. My job is to win for my team. My job is to beat the enemy and take the planet in Community Warfare from the opposing faction for my team.

So if you leave Community Warfare because I beat you, that's on you-not me. If you uninstall the game because I beat you, that's your decision, not mine.

If you don't like me beating you, well, hell, take the time to improve upon yourself, and stop blaming me-and my team-for what you define as "problems with this game."

Thanks for proving me right.

Your friends are already in. you re not selling this game to friends who are not in.
Don't go into sales.

[Commander A9]

Too late; I'm already IN sales! XD

I get paid to be a salesman in real life-I don't get paid to sell battlemechs. Although I do get paid C-Bills if I win.

I won't curtail my skill set simply because my opponents are upset if I beat them. And why should I?

Since we're both Steiner for the week, DaFrog, why don't you come drop with MercStar and see what we're all about?

TeamSpeak: 67.23.26.161:8344

Edited by Commander A9, 25 August 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Sydney Sender]

DaFrog, on 23 August 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

Thanks for proving me right.

Your friends are already in. you re not selling this game to friends who are not in.
Don't go into sales.

It is not, nor has it EVER been the responsibility of the Customer to provide SALES for the COMPANY, they are not an EMPLOYEE nor are they an AFFILIATE, they are a CUSTOMER. Being new player friendly is one thing, tolerating people who either cannot, or will not learn, even when offered a chance to learn by others, or refuse to operate as a TEAM in a TEAM GAME is another. TL:DR - I don't have to sell the game, PGI does.

EDIT : OH yeah, before you make any stupid comments, i've been following this game since the very beginning and really talked it up in the past, but now I just can't stand to play half the time, why should I have to cater to the whims of lower skill players? Also, ignore the tier 4, i have barely played since they implented it.

Edited by Solathon, 25 August 2016 - 10:35 AM.

[Sydney Sender]

Aargh Tenna, on 23 August 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

First, I am not saying I am a victim, I am saying that clubbed seals are. Are they not? Also, in no way I am judging success. Your logic is sound, and difficult to argue with. If it works, then absolutely, you right. But does it work? Is FW a success? If it does not, or if you have doubts, then I suggested something that I thought was a good idea. If it was not, well.. I do not have other ideas, do you?

Consider this: let's say you enjoy the game as it is because it works for you and your 11 friends you drop with. Let's say there are another 1000 people like you and another 11 thousand friends *they* have. Is it enough to sustain PGI? Is it enough to hire more coders with, you know, skills? Do you want PGI to expand and MWO to grow? If you (or PGI, rather) do, then they should try to be inclusive, which means accommodating players, not the other way round, PVP or not. That's how business works IMHO. Tyranny of the majority and all that, unfortunately.

As for casual units, point taken - but I was not talking about myself personally, it is just that I want MWO and FW to grow into mmm, bigger success than they are now.

people go into a competitive game mode without expecting competitive play then they are foolish. FW is NOT for new players, and is an entirely different gameplay type to quick play, if you want to FW, drop with a unit, either as a guest or apply for membership, learn how it works and contribute as a team member, otherwise, don't waste my time.

[Jon Gotham]

Vasili Kerensky, on 19 August 2016 - 05:23 AM, said:

The casuals rightly whine. They don't want to be stomped by semi-professional clan pilots with 'mechs that kill with 1 salvo from 1 klik away. They want an environment with players at their own level of skill and equipment and a realistic chance of victory. A humiliating defeat is no one's definition of a good time and nothing else is there for the casual player in FP.

Split the goddamn FP queue in Solo and Group queues, like QM and all problems are solved.

I have a dream...

...of damn scouting matches without seeing 3-4 Stormcrows before me

...of damn Invasions where I won't be afraid to peek around a rock or pillar because I'll know that I won't be promptly killed by an EBJ/TBR/KDK with a gazzilion lasers firing from 1 km away...

...one can only dream.

Staggering ignorance right there, and I do mean staggering! your first sentence is full of fabricated untruths for a start.....
FW as it currently stands sinks or swims on the ability and willingness of players to want to talk to each other. basic grass roots communication and the suppression of your own ego-that's it.
"casuals" as you put them cannot "rightly" complain if they are unwilling to even try to work as a team in a team based game. they have no rights in that specific case. Talking is 100% basic.
If you won't try, what rights do you have to ciriticise those that will try?
NONE.

Also on your comment on splitting ques, all that has done is make the gameplay worse.....that same ultra solo attitude and behaviour has leaked into the group play of FW, with more and more poor solo orientated attitude on display each day. It just teaches people to play selfishly and learns them solo oriented bad habits that get them roflstomped in team play.

How can that be good?

[DaFrog]

Commander A9, on 25 August 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

Too late; I'm already IN sales! XD

I get paid to be a salesman in real life-I don't get paid to sell battlemechs. Although I do get paid C-Bills if I win.

I won't curtail my skill set simply because my opponents are upset if I beat them. And why should I?

Since we're both Steiner for the week, DaFrog, why don't you come drop with MercStar and see what we're all about?

TeamSpeak: 67.23.26.161:8344

Oh I know about MS, and they know abouit me ...

[Aerei]

Man you can tell the original post is pre rescale, FIrestarters are nowhere near Cheetah level anymore. Though even before the rescale...clan XL is so useful in a light.

[Commander A9]

That is surprising, that we're still talking about this even almost a year after that battle. XD

Well, hell, this sort of thing happens in all games I imagine.

But, so be it. I do my job, and I'm proud of it. Let them scream. I'll come back for more and welcome the next fight!

[Commander A9]

"I Just Wanna Have Fun!" -one line of thought

I want to update this argument with a supplemental claim made to our teams in recent hours.

Simply put, we were discussing the matter of fun-factor and teamwork in a Community Warfare drop with opposing random pilots whose retort regarding playing Community Warfare versus organized 12-mans was "I'm just here to have fun" or "I'm not here to play competitively" or "I have more fun with my small unit rather than a large group."

By this retort, are we trying to suggest that a pilot's decision to follow the commands of the drop commander will somehow negate their capacity to "have fun" and enjoy the game?

It is now my understanding that some pilots continue to drop in Community Warfare anticipating the match to go the route of a battle in Quickplay, which is completely not the case, especially when you face 12-man teams which dominate the game mode. We are now at a point where pilots want nothing to do with following directions or even remotely attempting to use teamwork, have people use VOIP, coordinate, or even have someone give an inkling of suggestions of strategy because the theory is that by doing so, such behaviors are outside the realm of "having fun."

Let's look at this from the other side of the coin: the 12-man teams are having fun because the attitude is that by using teamwork, coordinating their efforts, and listening to their drop commanders, they will be more likely to win the match. Winning is pretty fun, wouldn't we all agree to that?

So why wouldn't you want to have the most amount of fun by working together to gain the upper hand in a battle and ultimately win the match? Isn't that why we're playing Community Warfare? To win?

If you're in the mode just to shoot wildly without any regard to actually winning the match like this is the OK Kerensky Corral, well, hell, expect to face off against competitive teams who will have fun by demolishing their opposition.

Simply put, what the hell are you doing in a game mode that requires you to coordinate with your allies if you're already unwilling to do so? And if this is your line of thinking, you need to refrain from screaming at the organized 12-man team which just shredded your Raven that attempted to challenge the full-team firing line by itself about how much fun you're not having...because they're having fun in their own way doing exactly what they just did.

Edited by Commander A9, 14 December 2016 - 12:30 PM.

[Zap97]

And the best part is, op, That PGI has even increased IS assault tonnage to 265. Because apparently, quirks were not enough.

Or the nerf at clan gauss being harsher than IS ones.

Just because.

Still, they fail to win. Either the Clan people are really really good players (consider me impressed) to be able to win against quirks and now a 15 tons dropdeck disadvantage or the IS people are really really dumb.

Edited by Zap97, 14 December 2016 - 03:42 AM.

[Valhallan]

Zap97, on 14 December 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

And the best part is, op, That PGI has even increased IS assault tonnage to 265. Because apparently, quirks were not enough.

Or the nerf at clan gauss being harsher than IS ones.

Just because.

Still, they fail to win. Either the Clan people are really really good players (consider me impressed) to be able to win against quirks and now a 15 tons dropdeck disadvantage or the IS people are really really dumb.

Or you know because clantech is actually better and now that clans have mechs with great geometry and hardpoints everyone can see it as it is .

[MischiefSC]

Zap97, on 14 December 2016 - 03:39 AM, said:

And the best part is, op, That PGI has even increased IS assault tonnage to 265. Because apparently, quirks were not enough.

Or the nerf at clan gauss being harsher than IS ones.

Just because.

Still, they fail to win. Either the Clan people are really really good players (consider me impressed) to be able to win against quirks and now a 15 tons dropdeck disadvantage or the IS people are really really dumb.

Except the majority of us play both Clan and IS. CXL and better speed synergy for Clan decks, plus higher alpha and range just work better in Clan decks. For coordinated team vs team it's really close but for pugs? Bigger advantage for Clans.

So most units have slowly migrated to Clans over CW3. That's not some random coincidence, people want to play with the best gear.

So it's mostly pugs left in IS.

[Commander A9]

And we've got the Marauder IIC out, so people switching to Clans to enjoy the awesomeness of such a mech is to be expected.

When the Bushwacker and Roughneck hit, you'll see the exact opposite.

Still, major teams like MS have been able to win using both sides' tech, so it isn't just the mech-it's the person in the cockpit, and the drop commander they follow.

[MaschinenSatan SELFD]

PFFF the marauder iic... i gonna molest it with my battlemaster

..but ok in most parts you are right...

[MischiefSC]

Commander A9, on 14 December 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

And we've got the Marauder IIC out, so people switching to Clans to enjoy the awesomeness of such a mech is to be expected.

When the Bushwacker and Roughneck hit, you'll see the exact opposite.

Still, major teams like MS have been able to win using both sides' tech, so it isn't just the mech-it's the person in the cockpit, and the drop commander they follow.

So explain the last 3 months of Clan population rise and IS population decline.

[RaptorCWS]

MischiefSC, on 14 December 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

So explain the last 3 months of Clan population rise and IS population decline.

there was a ton of clan on clan fighting happening which previously never happened.

[Marius Romanis]

Why bring back to life a dead threah instead of starting a new one i spent 5 mins reading 1st post b4 seeing datestamp =(

[MischiefSC]

RaptorCWS, on 14 December 2016 - 01:17 PM, said:

there was a ton of clan on clan fighting happening which previously never happened.

A ton? A someone who worked for 2 months to try and brutalized a few people into any Clan V Clan that's an overstatement. It didn't start until there were literally no Clan v IS fights to be had. It was a real struggle.

That was a result of the population imbalance, not a cause.

[RaptorCWS]

MischiefSC, on 14 December 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

A ton? A someone who worked for 2 months to try and brutalized a few people into any Clan V Clan that's an overstatement.  It didn't start until there were literally no Clan v IS fights to be had. It was a real struggle.

That was a result of the population imbalance,  not a cause.

a ton more than there used to be, and a lot of mercs went bear to do it spent time pushing GB borders to get close to the falcon front and get mechs mastered. but a portion of the GB community did not want it. so the chunk of GB and the mercs went wolf and got some attacks in on bear and quite a bit on falcon (until our pugs got tired of losing to the falcons which ended the vote). then they all went where the fights were.

Edited by RaptorCWS, 14 December 2016 - 03:54 PM.