402 replies to this topic

[Arkhangel]

KahnWongFuChung, on 15 November 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

Hey PGI listen up fools you can balance mechs weapons etc.untill hell freezes over and it wont fix your game.

The vote map system is a joke the report system was a joke and even now CW is the biggest joke of all with 12 man teams desimating pug teams for there rewards and pugs get nothing no rewards and just a stomp almost 99% of the time.

So FIX YOU DAMM CW AND SOLO GAME FIRST BEFORE DOING MORE IDIOTIC BALANCE THAT JUST DISTRACTS THE PLAYERS FROM THE TRUTH YOU GAME IS A JOKE.

P.S HERE IS A BALANCE TIP FOR YOU DOUBLE THE ARMOR LIKE YOU SAID YOU DID STOP LYING ABOUT EVERYTHING.

armor's been doubled for nearly two years, idiot. you do realize a mech's head is only supposed to have 9 armor and 9 internal, right? Closed beta was like dodgeball before that hit. we don't need anymore armor.

[Kotev]

Why so much hate about the changes? If we look analytically at mech tree we wil see that bonuses are too high and this change will slow down gameplay and increase simulation aspect of the game. Lets not forget that this is Mechwarrior and not some fps shooter, so i think that this change is going in right direction to increase immersion and with latest quirk pass adds much needed balance. To all people that have doubt i will only say this: If you love the game you will support PGI. I`m here since closed beta and can tell you that these guys are 100% committed to give us the best mech warrior experience.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Asmosis, on 15 November 2015 - 11:41 PM, said:

exaggerate much? it's only slightly noticeable now (and half of that is psychological) vs opponents that are fully skilled. There is no difference to your ability to combat other mechs though when both have the same changes.

Slightly noticeable? Psychological?
*+15% heat dissipation,
+ 45% acceleration
+20% torso twist
*+20% heat capacity (that alone allow having +20% larger alpha at the same cost!)
+50% deceleration
+20% leg turn speed
+33% turn on/off speed
+5% cooldown on every weapon
+10% max speed
Yeah, a mech like the Timber Wolf can be decent even without the skills, but those overall mediocre mechs out there are total garbage prior to elite. I recently elited Kintaros and Shadow Cats, it was pure pain.

Apart from better NPE (less disadvantage from not having ANY mech elited yet), the changes are also needed to improve the feel of the mechs, make them more like those lumbering giants many people think they should be. I never played BT or previous games so I dunno how mechs should work according to the lore, but for the MWO, these changes are good. They make this game look and feel more different than all those 10.000 shooters people can play. This will never be an AAA game, so MWO should not try to compete by being better in aspects many other games already mastered. MWO should be different, to cater for those who don't like twitch-based combat, are already bored with it and/or are looking for something new/different. People go for indie or niche games to find something different that they already have in all those copypaste AAA games, not to get the same they already have.

EDIT: just noticed that they didn't nerf heat skills at all in this PTS. They should, or else lazor meta will only get a bit stronger now, with the mechs being slower. OMG.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 16 November 2015 - 01:15 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

So, after a few more thoughts I'm still skeptical, but i do see positive things.

Pos':
- Less/lowder Mech-Skills. While I think it lessens the incentive, to buy 3-of-a-kind mechs, I also believe that this a good thing for a mech-game. They are, after all, multi-ton walking tanks and esp. the "double basics" that could be unlocked did only help in creating ever faster gameplay, diminishing the feeling of piloting a mech.


Negs:
- Cobbling it all together, this looks not like a rebalancing effort but like just another quirk pass.


Improvement suggestions (not limited to this PTS phase):

- Use the forums to communicate. This is where your loyal player base is. Not on twitter, not on instagram.

- Remove Skirmish, put that into a Solaris-mode to opt in. Nothing more boring than stupid, objectiveless team-deathmatch which I can have in every shooter on the planet. Same with CW counterattack.

- Remove the speed tweak altogether. The game engine has enough problems with high speed mechs and hit registration as it is.

- Create some kind of rewards for playing on PTS. This is invaluable data you're getting there and you expect people to do it (i.e. your job!) for free basically. Let at the very least C-Bill/XP-Earnings carry over.

- Remove Ghost heat and use a more sensible approach. As of now, I can fire 6 (ER)ML from a tiny medium's arm and are not penalized. Instead, try a location based system: 1 energy- or missile-type weapon per "large location" (arms, side torsi) are free, thus a maximum of 4. More heat energy at the same time from the same location should impose steep heat penalties. Substitute heat with heavy recoil for ballistics.

- Make team-based actions more worth. Like a light providing scouting intel. Or AMS protection (like give a little (fraction of a) C-bill for each missile shotdown). Or ECM bubble.

- Factor in mech tonnage into score. 1k Damage from a Locust/Spider/Commando/Mist Lynx takes much more skill than from a Whale or a Lurm-boat and should be rewarded at least in terms of match score (for events and the like).

- Remove the large bonus for surviving mechs in CW. Instead, give a fixed amount like 50 points or so for each mech staying alive.

[Pihoqahiak]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 16 November 2015 - 12:08 AM, said:

the changes are also needed to improve the feel of the mechs, make them more like those lumbering giants many people think they should be

I'm not quite sure why anyone would have that idea. Mechs are tied into the pilot's nervous system in the source material fiction. One of the primary attributes (and purpose) of mechs is superior maneuverability and agility over comparably armed and armored vehicles that can be fielded against them. They also don't get hands for cosmetic purposes, they are supposed to be agile enough to use them to pick objects up and manipulate things when needed. They aren't supposed to have the speed and agility of the stereotypical japanese anime mecha (Robotech, Macross, Gundam, etc...), but they really aren't supposed to be plodding slow moving targets either, with the exception of the extremely slow mechs like the Urbanmech, Dire Wolf, etc.

Edited by Pihoqahiak, 16 November 2015 - 03:11 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Pihoqahiak, on 16 November 2015 - 03:09 AM, said:

I'm not quite sure why anyone would have that idea. Mechs are tied into the pilot's nervous system in the source material fiction. One of the primary attributes (and purpose) of mechs is superior maneuverability and agility over comparably armed and armored vehicles that can be fielded against them.

One word: Inertia.

Edited by PFC Carsten, 16 November 2015 - 03:37 AM.

[Hastur Azargo]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait and see how this plays out, but my gripe with this is that the reduction is way too drastic.

I also understand the almost religious hate of MWO community for twitch shooters, and I'm all for immersion, but at the end of the day the novel sensations wear off and you're left with raw gameplay, and that's when less responsive (inertia, yes, I know, let's not get started on the whole "it should happen because it's more realistic" thing, a game is only as good as its gameplay is) almost universally means worse for gameplay.

Again, I'm not up in arms about this, I just want to point out that if you make 60-tonners handle like dire whales (which will complete the circle of irony, seeing how they're already as large as 100-tonners) that's gonna take us back to old days of 2012, when ECM Ravens and Trollmandos were large mechs' worst fear, and having streaks as backup (as well as boating streaks on mediums for "light hunter" builds) was actually a thing.

I mean, have you forgotten how many times back then you watched the last panicking assault pilot on your team desperately trying to bring his lasers to bear on a light running circles around him, while forgetting to at least switch off max zoom? Yes, lore buff in me can enjoy that as an actual "battlefield story" unfolding before our eyes, but it's still not fun to lose because of that.

Granted, we have HSR and better hit-detection now, I am, of course, exaggerating, but the bottom line is that this change has some negative implications, which for now are being ignored in favour of rather superficial arguments, like "immersion" and "realism".

[Therrinian]

InnerSphereNews, on 13 November 2015 - 08:05 PM, said:

The complete rundown on all of these Quirk changes, showing both the original Live values and the PTS4 values, along with indicators for the nature of their change, can be found in the links below:

I am missing the quirks for the AWS-8Q, please post these still

Edited by Therrinian, 16 November 2015 - 06:15 AM.

[Apnu]

I think mech efficiencies should go out the window totally. And replace them with a pilot skill tree.

Have paths on that tree that unlock efficiencies for that pilot in weapon types, sensors and what not.

Basically give us the ability to have "pilots" like characters in other MMOs and RPGs. Then give all accounts two free pilots, and then charge MC for "berths" on the drop ship like mech bays for players to get more pilots.

Make each pilot a clan or IS pilot and they can only drive and/or unlock skills for those tech bases.

And then, yes, let pilots join units and factions and be members of each faction.

Then all that mech XP goes towards pilot improvement and specialization.

This would add instant depth to the game and give us something to do with all that freaking MXP sitting on our favorite mechs. I have over 200k of MXP on my HBK-4G right now, its, of course, long mastered. Converting it to GXP isn't the best use of my MC, so it sits there, doing nothing.

[VortexD]

Sooooo about them Clan quirks ?

[MovinTarget]

Apnu, on 16 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

I think mech efficiencies should go out the window totally. And replace them with a pilot skill tree.

Have paths on that tree that unlock efficiencies for that pilot in weapon types, sensors and what not.

Basically give us the ability to have "pilots" like characters in other MMOs and RPGs. Then give all accounts two free pilots, and then charge MC for "berths" on the drop ship like mech bays for players to get more pilots.

Make each pilot a clan or IS pilot and they can only drive and/or unlock skills for those tech bases.

And then, yes, let pilots join units and factions and be members of each faction.

Then all that mech XP goes towards pilot improvement and specialization.

This would add instant depth to the game and give us something to do with all that freaking MXP sitting on our favorite mechs. I have over 200k of MXP on my HBK-4G right now, its, of course, long mastered. Converting it to GXP isn't the best use of my MC, so it sits there, doing nothing.

PGI please listen to this guy. Consider that if you have the ability to have one account w/ drivers for different factions. People would be more willing to acquire all kinds of mechs instead of one side or another... yeah CW would need some attention so that more people would drop.

But even more, perhaps there would be better balance b/c peeps would flock to the lower pop side to get in a cw game faster. You wouldn't have to change factions as much since you'd have a least one IS and one Clan

Edited by MovinTarget, 16 November 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[GweNTLeR]

I have created a topic regarding Raven-3L quirks, everyone interested may come and say something)
http://mwomercs.com/...41#entry4826341
In short, I think devs must consider fitting him with energy quirks, not with missile quirks, because if they won't, it will be the worst light mech in game(details on the link).

Edited by GweNTLeR, 16 November 2015 - 08:52 AM.

[Nehkrosis]

First, them Clan Quirks. gis them there.

Second, what time is the PTS coming online at???

[Gas Guzzler]

Yeonne Greene, on 14 November 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Your complaints about the complaining are incredibly misguided. People have been asking for very specific changes. Well-informed and experienced players have been asking for very specific changes. PGI made lots of changes, sure, but they were and are all dancing around what people have been asking for in some weird effort to avoid actually directly addressing the problems. That's what has people upset. And by this point, I shouldn't have to explain it to you (I know you keep in the loop), but I'd be happy to enumerate the complaints for you in a private message.

And, no, the weapon and 'Mech balance are not ready. I've played enough that I can tell you so just by looking at the numbers on the paper. As I said on Page 1, all any of this really does is move the collective together as one with very little adjustments to the disparities between any two 'Mechs or any two weapons.

The changes are going in the right direction though. Tdr-5ss no longer the automatic IS heavy choice, cERML range nerf to lessen its 1 ton do anything laser effectiveness.. Mechs that needed help got some help.. I don't know. I see a net improvement here for sure.

[Hydrocarbon]

The big problem:





99% of the people screaming bloody murder DIDN'T EVEN LOG INTO THE PTS.





IMO the last 2 PTS's felt great w/o the laser vomit, even w/o most IS quirks. Regardless of how things fall, I'm VERY glad PGI decided to switch more to generic quirks. Specific quirks didn't stop terribads from putting an AC2 on a Grid Iron. The people are why many IS mechs suck, not the mechs themselves.

[Arkhangel]

Hydrocarbon, on 16 November 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

The big problem:





99% of the people screaming bloody murder DIDN'T EVEN LOG INTO THE PTS.





IMO the last 2 PTS's felt great w/o the laser vomit, even w/o most IS quirks. Regardless of how things fall, I'm VERY glad PGI decided to switch more to generic quirks. Specific quirks didn't stop terribads from putting an AC2 on a Grid Iron. The people are why many IS mechs suck, not the mechs themselves.

THANK YOU. that's exactly what i've been saying for a long time. It's not the mech's fault. it's the pilot's for trying to use a mech they're not comfortable in because they watched someone else who IS comfortable in it kick ass. very little of the time does that have to do with quirks. i mean, my C.O. loves piloting Dragons, Quickdraws, Orions, Enforcers, and Cicadas, and he's deadly in all of them, regardless of quirks. in fact, the Dragon 1N is the Dragon he likes the LEAST, because that overpowered AC/5 quirk (effectively making two like eight) makes it the one that requires the least skill to pilot.

[Nometh]

Arkhangel, on 16 November 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

THANK YOU. that's exactly what i've been saying for a long time. It's not the mech's fault. it's the pilot's for trying to use a mech they're not comfortable in because they watched someone else who IS comfortable in it kick ass. very little of the time does that have to do with quirks. i mean, my C.O. loves piloting Dragons, Quickdraws, Orions, Enforcers, and Cicadas, and he's deadly in all of them, regardless of quirks. in fact, the Dragon 1N is the Dragon he likes the LEAST, because that overpowered AC/5 quirk (effectively making two like eight) makes it the one that requires the least skill to pilot.

A good player will remain a good player, no matter what Mech he chooses to drop in. Of course he can also be better than others even though he choses an inferior Mech than others.

However two pilots of equal skill in the same Mech will win about 50% of the time against each other. If one of the pilots chooses to switch to a better Mech (and there is no doubt some Mechs are better than others, may the reasons be hitboxes, hardpoint locations, loadout or whatever), the odds will shift towards the pilot choosing the better Mech.

That is the reason why you see the same Mechs over and over again. In the end it is all about the Mech and not so much about the player anymore.

[Dagorlad13]

PFC Carsten, on 16 November 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

One word: Inertia.

PGI is very fast and loose with physics; water that does not slow a mech down, increased or decreased gravity on maps has no effect, rocks the size of a football bring a 100 ton mech to a complete stop...

Edited by IronClaws, 16 November 2015 - 12:54 PM.

[Cementi]

I think another part of why people are upset that PGI is making the skill tree worthless is some people took advantage of conversion sales and then used that xp to skill up mechs.

Having what you spent your money on suddenly made completely worthless will likely piss people off.

Skill trees were fine what was not fine about them is the 3 variant rule. Just let people skill one mech up all the way if they want. You will see that alot more new players will be able to get mechs elited and mastered when they do not have to waste time with 2 other variants they do not want to play.

[Zodie]

Cementi, on 16 November 2015 - 12:59 PM, said:

I think another part of why people are upset that PGI is making the skill tree worthless is some people took advantage of conversion sales and then used that xp to skill up mechs.

Having what you spent your money on suddenly made completely worthless will likely piss people off.

Skill trees were fine what was not fine about them is the 3 variant rule. Just let people skill one mech up all the way if they want. You will see that alot more new players will be able to get mechs elited and mastered when they do not have to waste time with 2 other variants they do not want to play.

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