224 replies to this topic

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

I'm almost convinced there needs to be minimal grind requirement for new players to get into CW... I wouldn't be happy about it, but then again, they are being fed to a grinder as it were.

Even if it is simple mastery for all 4 weight classes (basically, one mech from each weight class must be mastered/elited) or some sort of k-d/w-l ratio threshold (when you begin, your ratio would suck anyways maybe something like a .75 for both/either after 100 matches min would be sufficient)... this would have to happen.

Judging by the average level of play in CW.. that would kill the pop completely. Seems most players wish they had a kdr/wl of .75/ dont even have 100 matches/ are in trials.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 02:36 PM, said:

Judging by the average level of play in CW.. that would kill the pop completely. Seems most players wish they had a kdr/wl of .75/ dont even have 100 matches/ are in trials.

I'm not going to lie... you need to give players a sense of "building up" to something (which doesn't really exist in MWO outside of more mechs) or they're just going to get put off after many roflstomps.

The thing is, PGI has no built in mechanism or feature that teaches players what they need to do to get better (you're going to have to pick some of them up over time or through joining a unit, but I'm talking about the basics though)... and that's what makes the CW climb really hard for many.

[TWIAFU]

Triordinant, on 17 November 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

No way I'm taking your word for that. Only PGI knows how often PUGs get roflstomped by organized premades in CW.

Since PGI told us that the evil boogeyman that is the 10-12man in 1% of the entire group population, simple math shows us that this 12man rolfstomp that happens "all the time' is, was, and will be utter bullsh*t and must be called out as such each and every time the boogeyman is used as an excuse for failure to execute teamwork and/or any coordination.

It is ok for these pugs to get stomped so long as it is by other pugs. Ok for them to stomp other pugs. Ok for them to get stomped by groups and ok for them to stomp groups. What is suddenly not OK is if the other team is 12man. The 12man they only face 1 in 100 times in non event drops.

See, it's bullsh*t.

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

I'm not going to lie... you need to give players a sense of "building up" to something (which doesn't really exist in MWO outside of more mechs) or they're just going to get put off after many roflstomps.

The thing is, PGI has no built in mechanism or feature that teaches players what they need to do to get better (you're going to have to pick some of them up over time or through joining a unit, but I'm talking about the basics though)... and that's what makes the CW climb really hard for many.

Yeah I get that... I think prerequisites like that would be a 50/50 that would kill the pop even more or improve it's longer term retention. Saying that, even if it dropped to like nil would it even be a loss ?

Edited by Ghogiel, 17 November 2015 - 02:58 PM.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 02:56 PM, said:

Yeah I get that... I think prerequisites like that would be a 50/50 that would kill the pop even more or improve it's longer term retention. Saying that, even if it dropped to like nil would it even be a loss ?

In addition to what I said... you don't want a mechanism that promotes what the solo queue is doing now... "isolation".

The idea that your skills are "tested" in the solo queue is faulty. Some players will excel, but you can't be solely building players to "work by themselves" and reasonably expect them to win consistently in a team environment.

Working together (just even by simple focus fire) is what should be promoted, but it's technically not done. "Assists" are loosely based on that as even a small poke/bump on the opponent is essentially an assist once that targeted mech dies. It's one of those things that never seems to get through some minds (which some like literally hiding behind a target - preventing the ability to help the teammate in the first place).

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[Ghogiel]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

In addition to what I said... you don't want a mechanism that promotes what the solo queue is doing now... "isolation".

The idea that your skills are "tested" in the solo queue is faulty. Some players will excel, but you can't be solely building players to "work by themselves" and reasonably expect them to win consistently in a team environment.

Working together (just even by simple focus fire) is what should be promoted, but it's technically not done. "Assists" are loosely based on that as even a small poke/bump on the opponent is essentially an assist once that targeted mech dies. It's one of those things that never seems to get through some minds (which some like literally hiding behind a target - preventing the ability to help the teammate in the first place).

Yeah but sticking some fence around content like CW and locking it off from the majority of the current users won't even help with that.

[mekabuser]

VanguardMk1, on 15 November 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

Then don't be a pug. Get some unit members together, use Teamspeak or VOIP, use LFG and just group up with some coordination! CW is meant for teamwork, so get a team together.

i DONT WANT TO BE ON A TEAM>. WHy cant we pugs fight it out on pug planets in each sector>? I dont care if we even affect the map.. I dont care about the map I like the game mode, but the teams... blah

[EgoSlayer]

mekabuser, on 17 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

i DONT WANT TO BE ON A TEAM>. WHy cant we pugs fight it out on pug planets in each sector>? I dont care if we even affect the map.. I dont care about the map I like the game mode, but the teams... blah

I can't even understand what you are thinking by saying that. Every match you are in you're part of a team with 11 other people. If you wanted a solo game this isn't it. Nobody is saying you have to join a unit - but using LFG to create a Pick Up Group (PUG) that is at least working together for that match is better than a randomly created team.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 17 November 2015 - 04:01 PM.

[Deathlike]

Ghogiel, on 17 November 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

Yeah but sticking some fence around content like CW and locking it off from the majority of the current users won't even help with that.

I get that, but that's the general source of where the complaints come from though. The argument then simply gets to "PUGs vs premades", and we're back to an issue that should really be a non-issue... except some people still refuse to work together.

It's one thing to get beat... it's another thing to complain "how you got beaten" when you don't have a good grasp of the game and its mechanics and proceed to blame other people instead of learning how to get better... whether it is simply aiming, driving, or even your mech build (essentially, complaining about the meta).

There are still obvious issues related, but by far... the loudest that complain about the most common of things (even LRMs) just never gotten over this hump... and that's what it has always been downgraded to as an argument.

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2015 - 01:56 PM, said:

Then again, it's not going to change the fact that players that refuse to work together are often the reason for a loss. Teamwork is OP, but refusing to work together tends to be more of a gamebreaker.

This is the #1 problem. The 12-man bogeyman is just that, a bogeyman.

[Triordinant]

TWIAFU, on 17 November 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

Since PGI told us that the evil boogeyman that is the 10-12man in 1% of the entire group population, simple math shows us that this 12man rolfstomp that happens "all the time' is, was, and will be utter bullsh*t and must be called out as such each and every time the boogeyman is used as an excuse for failure to execute teamwork and/or any coordination.

It is ok for these pugs to get stomped so long as it is by other pugs. Ok for them to stomp other pugs. Ok for them to get stomped by groups and ok for them to stomp groups. What is suddenly not OK is if the other team is 12man. The 12man they only face 1 in 100 times in non event drops.

Wrong. Since only 10% of the activity on MWO servers take place in CW that means there's a 1 in 10 chance to meet a 12-man premade in CW because 1% is 1/10 of the 10% who are there. The number of 4 to 10-man premades is a lot more. Having a premade on both teams is rare because the CW planetary system can easily be gamed.

Edited by Triordinant, 17 November 2015 - 07:53 PM.

[Mainhunter]

Just made 4 games with IS side and got as opponent 3x 12-man and one looked like a 10-man team. Could it be, that there are more clanner big groups around?

[Kira Onime]

mekabuser, on 17 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

i DONT WANT TO BE ON A TEAM>.

Then don't complain if you land against groups in a group oriented mode.
Outside of making yourself look like a spoiled kid that can't have everything he wants, you look like a fool.

Mainhunter, on 17 November 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

Just made 4 games with IS side and got as opponent 3x 12-man and one looked like a 10-man team. Could it be, that there are more clanner big groups around?

The public opinion was that yes, to some extent there are less clan pugs as clan mechs are more expensive to buy compared to cheap "first cost" IS mechs.

[Mystere]

mekabuser, on 17 November 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

i DONT WANT TO BE ON A TEAM>. WHy cant we pugs fight it out on pug planets in each sector>? I dont care if we even affect the map.. I dont care about the map I like the game mode, but the teams... blah

Don't worry. PVE is coming. In the meantime, may I suggest Candy Crush?

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 17 November 2015 - 04:49 PM, said:

I get that, but that's the general source of where the complaints come from though. The argument then simply gets to "PUGs vs premades", and we're back to an issue that should really be a non-issue... except some people still refuse to work together.

The solution is to cut the cancerous parts off before it kills the body. Frame them, set them up for a fall, manufacture a CoC violation, provoke them into doing something stupid, anything. This is one of those times where the ends justify the means.

Edited by Mystere, 17 November 2015 - 08:29 PM.

[Jacobei]

OP THE ANSWER IS JOIN CLAN... I bet your pubbing IS and fighting Clan. They have it on easy mode with mech imbalances.

Edited by Jacobei, 17 November 2015 - 08:35 PM.

[White Bear 84]

El Bandito, on 15 November 2015 - 05:40 AM, said:

I got all my awards except the match score one, pugging on the IS side. My contract will be over tomorrow so I am gonna join the Clans, ride the coat tails of either (228) or (-MS-), and get the last reward.

I gotta say had some good brawls against you when you did jump over, if you may remember our Davion mixed drops on MIRA

[Crosell]

i think in this the meta shows. A team of meta vs non meta will be pretty lopsided. Ran against a team a few times. And saw Twolves hellbringers, EJags and cheetahs, maybe a shadow cat or two. I think this is more with the coordinated team or more serious players. When you have people in trials or non meta mechs, its pretty easy to have a stomping. As someone who doesnt own meta IS mechs I felt the pounding ; ; . But if someone takes leader it can change a lot but people dont want to do that or are inexperienced in the maps (raises hand) But I dont think CW is bad

[El Bandito]

White Bear 84, on 17 November 2015 - 08:47 PM, said:

I gotta say had some good brawls against you when you did jump over, if you may remember our Davion mixed drops on MIRA

Yeah, I remember you performing really good that match. Which mechs did you pilot?

[White Bear 84]

El Bandito, on 17 November 2015 - 08:59 PM, said:

Yeah, I remember you performing really good that match. Which mechs did you pilot?

STK-4N, BLR-1S, BJ-1X and a RVN-4X

Ended up with a match score of ~740 with ~1,980, ~9kills 25 assists... ...all of which was done in the BJ-1X, I was lol'n about getting killed in my first mech with just 30 seconds to go

We dropped in a group of I think 8 for that match.. ..I was doing calling alongside Van mw. We had a good run that night, apart from the ghost drops countering every gain we made..

Edited by White Bear 84, 17 November 2015 - 10:14 PM.