364 replies to this topic

[Gyrok]

pwnface, on 17 November 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Of course, you didn't consider any of these things because you are Gyrok and IS mechs are OP.

IS mechs are not OP...but frankly...the reality is they are not the helpless mechs you make them out to be either.

As for the DW...sure...you can hit really hard with the DW. Ever get nascar'ed in your DW in the pub queue? Hmm...that is also a factor as well...is it not? Speed? Torso Twist? What about hit boxes...ever consider those too?

The point remains, worst case scenario, the KGC is situationally as good as the DW in some circumstances. There are also scenarios where it is more useful, and scenarios where the DW is more useful.

Even a twit like you has to admit I have a point...far better players than you already have admitted as much...begrudgingly or not...

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 17 November 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

I tried pushing for just that, really I did.

I remember, and you're not the only one.

cdlord, on 17 November 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

How about a petition to put Battletech back into MWO?

I will answer your question with another question: Which is the path of least resistance?

[CDLord HHGD]

I've dropped a lot of money in this game. If this ceases to be a Battletech Game, and besides the name, I still think it is somewhat, I will leave. I am ONLY here because of Battletech/Mechwarrior.

[pwnface]

Why does pure sustained DPS even matter in this discussion? Any ballistic only assault mech is going to have more than enough sustained DPS for the majority of engagements. 3xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 DWF and 4x UAC10 DWF both outburst a KGC by a large margin. It isn't even close. 4xUAC5 KGC can double tap for 40 damage vs the 70-80 damage doubletap of a DWF.

Now that we've reasoned out that DWFs are straight up way better for dakka builds, let's consider other builds like PPC/Gauss and Laser/Gauss.

DWF with 2xC-LPL + 4xC-ERML + 2xGauss: This is a super common build with a freaking 84pt pinpoint alpha.
KGC with 3xLPL + 2xGauss: This is as close to the DWF build as you can get with a 63pt alpha and less range. Also likely will require an XL engine unless you want to go slow as balls.

DWF with 2xERPPC + 2xGauss: Super common build with 50pinpoint + potential for 10 splash. Can run this with right/left side weapons or symmetrically. Can fit enough heat sinks to shoot off 5 or more volleys?
KGC with 2xPPC + 2xGauss: Can run a standard engine but loses the ERPPC because they are too hot with just 11-12 heatsinks. Can shoot 5 or so volleys as well with much less range AND minimum range for normal PPCs. Can not run right/left centric builds.

So yeah, basically the DWF is just flat out better at everything all the time. Stop pretending that these two mechs are somehow on par because you want clan tech to be godlike compared to IS. We all know your bias and you should be the last one to critique people about being able to "speak intelligently" about MWO.

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 17 November 2015 - 10:49 AM, said:

Why not just wait for HBS's BattleTech and players can decide for themselves. Fight from the cockpit of their BattleMechs, or move a mouse (while holding "shift") to see a full 3D rendering as their BattleMech moves from Hexagon to Hexagon while yelling daka daka, pew, pew...take that sucka.. LOL!

It's turn based! It just isn't my thing.

But, this is:

Total War: Battletech

[CoffiNail]

Mystere, on 17 November 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

It's turn based! It just isn't my thing.

But, this is:

Total War: Battletech

That could be interesting...

[Deathlike]

Gyrok, on 17 November 2015 - 11:47 AM, said:

The DW has 11.60 max sustained.

Build the KGC like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...1d9c90d87776b6c

Since you are too damn lazy to look for yourself...let me hold your hand like a 2 year old and show you...

OMG! 10.96 sustained DPS with more speed, better twist speed, more focused fire, and every bit as much ammo...?

But...WTF?!?!? Clans OP???

Wake up moron. Do you need everyone to do everything for you? Do you live in your mother's basement?

You know, the King Crabs arms actually need to be level with the target, as they are too long and actually wide (Direwolf ironically seems "thin" comparatively speaking... "relatively compact" is probably a better term)... which means it needs heck of a lot of "elbow room". Direwolf doesn't need that much extra effort (plus, it can run JJs to boot, not that it's required or recommended). I'm not saying Direwolves are better hill humpers, but the King Crab itself has its own set of requirements before all that dakka is optimal.

Besides, if you hold fast to DPS #s, you're exaggerating the point (and, having a STD310 engine is negligible in the grand scheme of things when ClanXL is a crazy tonnage savor).

Edited by Deathlike, 17 November 2015 - 02:31 PM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 17 November 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

It's turn based! It just isn't my thing.

But, this is:

Total War: Battletech

What...

What is that??

[Mystere]

cdlord, on 17 November 2015 - 02:37 PM, said:

What...

What is that??

That is me thinking of passing by Horsham, West Sussex to talk to a few people.

Edited by Mystere, 17 November 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[CoffiNail]

One thing i think most Inner Sphere and Mercs piltos fail to realize is that it is very demoralizing when you see your faction keep getting nerfed with no compensation or a kind word. Yes, Clan Loyalists knew we would not have the OP mechs. PGI nerfed us initially with the fact our lower actuators go missing when a heavy weapon goes on. That half our mechs critical slots are locked in. We do not get to chose Jump Jets, or Endo/FF it is or it is not, we do not get to try. We thought there was a bit of our nerf, but to continuasly see your factions mechs get nerfed while the opposing faction gets showered with quirks that often bring their weapons and capabilities near on par with your 50% real world dollars more mechs.

If they want to make Clans slghhty better, then compensate players who bought Clans with some MC or something because we have not payed slightly more, we payd 50% more and our mechs are not 50% better than Inner Sphere mechs. Check their logs and players who truely are Clan Loyalist who have not jumped IS and Clan rarely or at all, give us a bonus for the fact we keep getting our moral crushed by nerfs. People commented that units have crumbled due to this, yeah as a unit leader and founder that was founded before MW5 was even trailered, I have seen way too many of CGBI's members leave in disgust that what they payed a lot of money for keeps getting the nerf hammer on it every patch. A lot of my guys have left because they got bored of the same games, every round that PGI has done little to fix, everything is NASCAR, their maps are poorly done... What? Do it better? Please go look up MechWarrior Living Legends where the majority of the great maps were done by the community (including members of CGBI back in 2011) and were done well, not battle arenas in first person. For the most though, I think as many left due to getting upset with way PGI has handled Clan Loyalists as left due to burn out of MWO.

Seriously, think about it.. What has PGI done for pure Clan Loyalists? The ones who have been with their Clan faction since we could pick the faction icon, never mind in game loyalty. You think it is fair for us to keep getting our mechs knocked down pegs in the name of balance with not even a kind word from PGI or Russ? Too many Clan Loyalists I know feel negletcted as a player base, PGI has given horrible compesnation to try and retain pure Clan Loyalists. We keep seeing our faction get reduced to parity, when we have payed 50% more than the opposing side, nothing to show for it either but a couple avatars in game, and a mech or two.

Really there is absolutly nothing to keep someone as Clan loyalist but there is a lot to go for being a Merc or Inner Sphere player. Many cheers are had everything a Clan mech gets nerfed by the Inner Sphere forces, which is great happy players stay... what is Russ trying to do to keep Clan players cheering and happy?

[pwnface]

Gyrok, on 17 November 2015 - 02:07 PM, said:

The point remains, worst case scenario, the KGC is situationally as good as the DW in some circumstances. There are also scenarios where it is more useful, and scenarios where the DW is more useful.

Even a twit like you has to admit I have a point...far better players than you already have admitted as much...begrudgingly or not...

WTF is this garbage? When is the KGC better than the DWF? In what situations?

The KGC has a slightly easier time tracking light mechs at close range because it has faster torso twist, it is the ONLY benefit that it has over a DWF.

[Sjorpha]

CoffiNail, on 17 November 2015 - 03:32 PM, said:

One thing i think most Inner Sphere and Mercs piltos fail to realize is that it is very demoralizing when you see your faction keep getting nerfed with no compensation or a kind word. Yes, Clan Loyalists knew we would not have the OP mechs. PGI nerfed us initially with the fact our lower actuators go missing when a heavy weapon goes on. That half our mechs critical slots are locked in. We do not get to chose Jump Jets, or Endo/FF it is or it is not, we do not get to try. We thought there was a bit of our nerf, but to continuasly see your factions mechs get nerfed while the opposing faction gets showered with quirks that often bring their weapons and capabilities near on par with your 50% real world dollars more mechs.

I bought clan mechs too, because I like their looks and how they feel to play.

But to me they get more valuable, not less, the better the balance is. You're assuming the money value of a mech should reflect on it's in game power, but to me any item that is too strong is worthless to me.

[Sjorpha]

pwnface, on 17 November 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

When is the KGC better than the DWF? In what situations?

In the solo queue when you need more speed than a DWF to take meaningful part of the match due to nascar?

To be frank, the KGC is better in any situation where a little more speed is what saves you from dying, I find that to be quite often.

There is no doubt that the DWF is a lot stronger in total than the KGC though, it's not close.

[0bama care]

petition to remove self entitled azzhats from forums....this is free to play, i have payed over $100 for a bare bones fps that had more issues than this game has.
enjoy the free ride, and be grateful you are allowed to play it at all

[1Grimbane]

as i said in basically the duplicate name change thread this is the dumbest thread ever... and i should know i've started some dumb threads

[Gyrok]

pwnface, on 17 November 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

Why does pure sustained DPS even matter in this discussion? Any ballistic only assault mech is going to have more than enough sustained DPS for the majority of engagements. 3xUAC5 + 2xUAC10 DWF and 4x UAC10 DWF both outburst a KGC by a large margin. It isn't even close. 4xUAC5 KGC can double tap for 40 damage vs the 70-80 damage doubletap of a DWF.

Now that we've reasoned out that DWFs are straight up way better for dakka builds, let's consider other builds like PPC/Gauss and Laser/Gauss.

DWF with 2xC-LPL + 4xC-ERML + 2xGauss: This is a super common build with a freaking 84pt pinpoint alpha.
KGC with 3xLPL + 2xGauss: This is as close to the DWF build as you can get with a 63pt alpha and less range. Also likely will require an XL engine unless you want to go slow as balls.

DWF with 2xERPPC + 2xGauss: Super common build with 50pinpoint + potential for 10 splash. Can run this with right/left side weapons or symmetrically. Can fit enough heat sinks to shoot off 5 or more volleys?
KGC with 2xPPC + 2xGauss: Can run a standard engine but loses the ERPPC because they are too hot with just 11-12 heatsinks. Can shoot 5 or so volleys as well with much less range AND minimum range for normal PPCs. Can not run right/left centric builds.

So yeah, basically the DWF is just flat out better at everything all the time. Stop pretending that these two mechs are somehow on par because you want clan tech to be godlike compared to IS. We all know your bias and you should be the last one to critique people about being able to "speak intelligently" about MWO.

Show me a DW that can do more than 54 kph, or one that has TT speed like a KGC...let alone one that can mount FLD AC40 and brawl like a champ with more speed/twist.

Sure...there are builds where the DW shines...I never said there were not. You mistake that fact, and assume I want clans to dominate everything.

Reality is, no, I do not want clans to dominate everything. I want "different but equal" as promised. I am outright glad they are trying to balance the game. I stopped playing because it was fukt before. I am pissed off that they are not doing what makes monumentally more sense, and bringing in IS tech that is supposed to be on par with clans.

If you want a generic mech shooter with BT models...the CryEngine 3.8 SDK is free to DL. You get all the mechs, all the weapons, and everything completely free...with no campaign, no meaningful factions, a slightly different UI, and update CryEngine with new optimizations to improve performance.

Essentially, a newer, better, free version of this game, with no grind, exists in the CE3.8 free SDK. If you want Hawken with BT mechs on CryEngine...that game is out there and costs nothing to get everything for free. You even get free updates to the newest tech.

So, that being the case, why should you give PGI any money at all, and why should they get to call this game "A BattleTech Game"? Is the CryEngine SDK also "A BattleTech Game"? It fits all your criteria that this game does...and even offers more game modes and the ability to create your own maps. Is that not, in some sense, even more "A BattleTech Game" than MWO?

[Sjorpha]

I can't find any info at all about anyone having done a functional MWO clone, or even a single pilotable mech, in the cryengine free SDK, all there is to find is people who have put MWO mech models in maps and taken screens of it, very far from a playable game. So until proven otherwise I'll call BS on that, or are you suggesting players should build their own entire game?

The argument about KGC vs. Dire is silly.
Can the KGC do things the Dire can't? Yes of it can.
Can the Dire do things the KGC can't? Yes of it can.
Which one is the stronger mech is a different question, and it's the Dire wolf.

You can't compare the strength of mechs by throwing around things they can or can not do, there is no mech that can do everything but it's not relevant at all. What is relevant is if they win games doing whatever it is they do.

A mech only needs to do one important thing well to be a strong mech, and if it does that thing well enough then it's going to be one of the best mechs in the game. The Dire wolf has unparalleled mid-long range killing power, most notably the dual gauss+laser vomit or "space whale" as it is called, and also unmatched burst fire dakka builds. That is enough to make it a top tier mech, it doesn't need to be fast or agile or durable like other mechs because it does it's specialty so well.

Edited by Sjorpha, 17 November 2015 - 05:43 PM.

[kuritakun]

how about Mech Whiners Online lol...

[CuriousCabbitBlue]

game play makes a title not, the art/story/background of the trade/copyrighted material is what makes this related to battletech

we could be throwing rocks at each other an it would still be battletech

[Gyrok]

Sjorpha, on 17 November 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

I can't find any info at all about anyone having done a functional MWO clone, or even a single pilotable mech, in the cryengine free SDK. So until proven otherwise I'll call BS on that, or are you suggesting players should build their own entire game?

The argument about KGC vs. Dire is silly.
Can the KGC do things the Dire can't? Yes of course it can.
Can the Dire do things the KGC can't? Yes of course it can.
Which one is the stronger mech is a different question, and it's the Dire wolf.

https://www.reddit.c...ngine_software/

That shows when they were added to the SDK back in 2014.

As someone who has the SDK for work purposes...it is true. If you wanted a more "MW-esque" UI for mechlab, etc. You would need to get into scaleform, or some other UI tool of your choice to write an overlay for it...however...the mechs are already there.