364 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Repasy, on 19 November 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Two things that prevent MWO from becoming a prominent eSport:

It's actually much simpler than that. PGI decided to take the Clan Invasion part of the IP and not Solaris VII.

[Mystere]

Dracol, on 19 November 2015 - 04:40 PM, said:

Well said. Now, considering the creator of BTech himself said the overpowered nature of clan rules was a mistake, I would say the balancing of clan v IS is one of those needs.

But that does not mean going symmetrical. It could have been done via formations, weight, respawn size (as reinforcements), victory conditions, mechanics, etc. etc. etc. PGI instead chose what they mistakenly thought was the easy route and so far has failed, miserably.

Edited by Mystere, 19 November 2015 - 06:47 PM.

[Repasy Cooper]

Mystere, on 19 November 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's actually much simpler than that. PGI decided to take the Clan Invasion part of the IP and not Solaris VII.

uuuuuhh yup, that too hehe... almost forgot.. derp lol.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 19 November 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

It's actually much simpler than that. PGI decided to take the Clan Invasion part of the IP and not Solaris VII.

I think it's even simpler than that. When PGI decided to monetize custom matches and the ability to easily set up custom matches without any "official format" (IE leagues and ladders for esport games like LoL, HotS, SC2, etc.) as an alternative. Esports teams aren't going to pay PGI to set up a custom match. Just not going to happen. Otherwise MWO is actually set up in default mode (arena deathmatches) to be an Esport type format and game.

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 19 November 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

But that does not mean going symmetrical. It could have been done via formations, weight, respawn size (as reinforcements), victory conditions, mechanics, etc. etc. etc. PGI instead chose what they mistakenly thought was the easy route and so far has failed, miserably.

I've said this for years and I think it has become apparent.

Looking back now especially, it really seems like MWO suffered from lack of direction. It went through several different "visions" and while it was still transitioning PGI made the mistake of charging customers money as a commercial launch.
Smith & Tinker
IGP
PGI
Founders
Those 4 entities all (apparently) have different visions of MWO. The problem is paying customers were handing money to a company based on a vision they sold to them. Those people want THAT version.

When you look at balancing and monetary decisions it really seems like PGI can't make up their mind as to what exactly they've got and what they want to make. I think a few at PGI saw Esports (or it could have been IGP) and saw $$ with arean deathmatches ala MOBA.

Then we transitioned from that to....
well everything that has happened over the past 3 or so years lol

They can't (or at least couldn't) decide what they want. A MOBA style esports arena game, a rich MMORPG with CW, a single player game, an MMO shooter, etc.
This game has shifted its resources, money, efforts, and even target audiences repeatedly as they flip flop on what exactly they want to make here. PGI really needs to pick one area (especially since they're so small) and get that area done. Complete. On auto pilot for a while (new monetized mechs would be the first area I moved on from at this point for a bit) and then move on to the next major component.

Want CW to be great? Then focus on CW.
Want Esports? Focus on that
Want a deathmatch arena game? Focus on that. (although I think most in the community would agree you had that part down pat about 4 years ago lol)

Point being until PGI decides to actually focus, you'll continue seeing a conglomerate mess like this with different parts of the community wanting different styles of games and arguing against other styles.

Just because you have an arena deathmatch mode doesn't mean you can't have a deep and rewarding CW. Having Esports doesnt' mean you can't have an RPG element and story told through things like CW.

[DaZur]

Sandpit, on 19 November 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

As always buddy... spot on.

Sadly, there is a MWO audience for "all the above" who are convinced MWO was intended to fulfill their idealistic iteration and that all others are inferior.

I too believe PGI or whom ever was pulling the strings should have put their foot down long ago and declared "This is the the direction MWO is going... like it or leave".

Instead we have this vacillating mess with no sense of direction or overarching design destination....

When you endeavor to please everyone you ultimately wind up pleasing no one. = / = PGI.

Edited by DaZur, 20 November 2015 - 04:23 AM.

[Davers]

Sandpit, on 19 November 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

Having Esports doesnt' mean you can't have an RPG element and story told through things like CW.

The sad part is, LoL has a whole "lore team" that works on stories, special events, and game modes. PGI was handed 25+ years of BT lore and has done nothing with it.

[DaZur]

Davers, on 19 November 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

The sad part is, LoL has a whole "lore team" that works on stories, special events, and game modes. PGI was handed 25+ years of BT lore and has done nothing with it.

This is that little niggling issue that makes me wonder how invested iPGI is in the MW franchise... It's like they're just riding the IP knowing what fanatical fanboys we can be...

Hell, I'd pilot a dog **** if you could convince me it's conical.... Wait I do pilot a Quickdraw. Never mind...

Edited by DaZur, 19 November 2015 - 10:40 PM.

[Sandpit]

Davers, on 19 November 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

The sad part is, LoL has a whole "lore team" that works on stories, special events, and game modes. PGI was handed 25+ years of BT lore and has done nothing with it.

Sadly. I've said it many times. Angry Birds has more story to it (I'm psychic because now they've got a %$#^% movie coming out! If you EVER needed any kind of miraculous sign to listen a little more PGI...) than MWO does and it's also made more money...

DaZur, on 19 November 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

This is that little niggling issue that makes me wonder how invested iPGI is in the MW franchise... It's like they're just riding the IP knowing what fanatical fanboys we can be...

Hell, I'd pilot a dog **** if you could convince me it's conical.... Wait I do pilot a Quickdraw. Never mind...

Make no mistake. PGI is a business. The "love" of the product goes as far as you pay them to take it lol I think Russ genuinely likes the IP. Paul..... not so much lol (especially the fanboys eh Paul? lol I jest I jest)

Good to see the community still has a sense of humor though

[Hotthedd]

How long have the players been asking for a Solaris mode? Was is more than a week into closed beta?

The saddest part is that MW:O was given the tools to have both a sim-light AND an e-sport arena shooter FROM THE LORE!

All they ever had to do was make the "quick play" version into Solaris matches, and the "faction play" version into map effecting battles.

Instead we got a bastardized version of both/neither. 12 v 12 death matches that have no effect on anything.

The opportunities missed are tragic. The saddest part is that the very lore PGI continues to deviate away from, or ignore completely, already had room for everything they said they wanted this to be from the beginning.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 19 November 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

But you can always create a section FOR Esports if that's one of their aspirations.

Absolutely they could, but what they are doing is a little wonky. When they first brought this game to fruition they attracted the wrong type of players if their overall goal was to go for pure eSport, and now they are in a situation where they are alienating their long term player base for a potential new crowd of people that may or may not show up. Since it is almost Thanksgiving I will use that as an analogy. PGI invited us all over for a traditional Thanksgiving meal with a turkey and all the fixings, which we all showed up for, but when the main course came out they gave us Tofu turkey. Now there isn't anything wrong with Tofu turkey if that is your thing, but if you are going to invite someone over for a traditional meal you might want to explain ahead of time what you are actually planning to do so there isn't any confusion or frustration. If all you care about are the Vegans don't invite the carnivores.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 20 November 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Absolutely they could, but what they are doing is a little wonky. When they first brought this game to fruition they attracted the wrong type of players if their overall goal was to go for pure eSport, and now they are in a situation where they are alienating their long term player base for a potential new crowd of people that may or may not show up. Since it is almost Thanksgiving I will use that as an analogy. PGI invited us all over for a traditional Thanksgiving meal with a turkey and all the fixings, which we all showed up for, but when the main course came out they gave us Tofu turkey. Now there isn't anything wrong with Tofu turkey if that is your thing, but if you are going to invite someone over for a traditional meal you might want to explain ahead of time what you are actually planning to do so there isn't any confusion or frustration. If all you care about are the Vegans don't invite the carnivores.

I agree completely. The problem is, they've been told, shown, explained to for years now. They half-completed features across the entire game. Stop looking at Point B and start concentrating on Point A. Focus on one area or component. Get it done.
There are MORE than enough current features to keep people playing. Sit down, figure out what you want MWO to be first (not exclusively) and get it done. THEN move on to the next. PGI has just never really seemed to be very good at the whole organizing and task oriented details.

It's a fun Btech based robot shooter but it's nowhere near what it could be after 4 years.

[Johnny Z]

Sandpit, on 20 November 2015 - 12:08 PM, said:

I agree completely. The problem is, they've been told, shown, explained to for years now. They half-completed features across the entire game. Stop looking at Point B and start concentrating on Point A. Focus on one area or component. Get it done.
There are MORE than enough current features to keep people playing. Sit down, figure out what you want MWO to be first (not exclusively) and get it done. THEN move on to the next. PGI has just never really seemed to be very good at the whole organizing and task oriented details.

It's a fun Btech based robot shooter but it's nowhere near what it could be after 4 years.

I agree with the sentiment in a way but disagree with almost everything else.

There isnt enough features to keep players playing if it wasnt for the promise that features would be added and whats in game, which is great, is improved and expanded.

That there is a promise of a galactic war as shown by the map has kept players playing even if it is 1/2 done with a few half done maps and one mode.

There used to be a pilot picture place holder that showed promise that there would be additions to character creation and development.

I could go on but the point is made.

I think the game is done very well for the most part except for lack of features such as atmosphere and lore additions, game play goals and so on. Lots of work to be done.

Again I got one complaint aside from the game being built to slow for my liking and thats where they throw the sim out the window. A prefect example is the "PLAY NOW" button.

3PV threatened to make a mockery of the sim but luckily that was done well. I hope they can wake up about other problems that are in game or sim elements lacking that get in the way of offering players a good Mechwarrior game/sim.

Edited by Johnny Z, 20 November 2015 - 01:00 PM.

[Sandpit]

Johnny Z, on 20 November 2015 - 12:53 PM, said:

There isnt enough features to keep players playing

I would agree if we didn't have 4 years of MWO behind us

[Tombstoner]

Sandpit, on 20 November 2015 - 02:17 PM, said:

I would agree if we didn't have 4 years of MWO behind us

And 4 more ahead of us....

[Dirkdaring]

Over $2,000!

Dude a petition to remove something from a title is the least of your problems.

[Gremlich Johns]

I wish they had just started the game in 3025........

[MauttyKoray]

Dingo Red, on 19 November 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

I think we should have called MWO BattleTech: Solaris or MechWarrior: Solaris.

Would have actually made so much more sense, and I'm being serious. I've never had a problem with PGI doing their own competitive shooter spin-off of the series, I've always had a problem with how they've tried to market it as a continuation of the MechWarrior series when frankly it's nothing of the like.

It was specifically marketed as 'Mechwarrior Online' nothing more or less. Mechwarrior has always been, simply, putting a player IN the mech, as the pilot. Mechwarrior has nothing to do with being a SP story, or having an overarching campaign epic to it. Its always been about being the pilots inside a multi-ton machine of death.

That being said, they want to do single player/campaign/missions or whatever will happen. Russ has stated many times they want to get to it, and with the Academy we're seeing the very first steps of this. It may not be pretty yet but its some of the core elements we need. Cinematics, event sequences, AI scripting, single player map triggers, etc. Hell, they even coded us getting out of a mech and into another one (albeit a scripted ingame sequence) and that is something where there was nothing before.

[Impyrium]

MauttyKoray, on 20 November 2015 - 08:02 PM, said:

It was specifically marketed as 'Mechwarrior Online' nothing more or less. Mechwarrior has always been, simply, putting a player IN the mech, as the pilot. Mechwarrior has nothing to do with being a SP story, or having an overarching campaign epic to it. Its always been about being the pilots inside a multi-ton machine of death.

That being said, they want to do single player/campaign/missions or whatever will happen. Russ has stated many times they want to get to it, and with the Academy we're seeing the very first steps of this. It may not be pretty yet but its some of the core elements we need. Cinematics, event sequences, AI scripting, single player map triggers, etc. Hell, they even coded us getting out of a mech and into another one (albeit a scripted ingame sequence) and that is something where there was nothing before.

Well, yes, but I'm not sure where I mentioned single player storyline or campaigns or anything like that?

I'm just referring to the game's focus when it does come to putting the player in a 'mech. Also one could argue MechWarrior has always been a real-time interpretation of BattleTech, which is a bit more specific than just 'a mech'.

[Grugore]

Be of good cheer, mechwarriors. Harebrained schemes, the makers of shadow run returns, is bringing back the original turn based battletech. They have met their funding goals and have started development. I, for one, will be leaving here, once the game is released. MWO just isn't fun anymore. I never like shooters anyway. I would rather play tabletop battletech than this piece of crap.