364 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Face hugging an assault mech in a light mech is the stupidest thing you can do. You are literally staying directly in the assault mech's cone of fire where they have superior armor and weaponry.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Face hugging an assault mech in a light mech is the stupidest thing you can do. You are literally staying directly in the assault mech's cone of fire where they have superior armor and weaponry.

Any time you'd like to put your money where your mouth is sir I can even stream it for everyone

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Any time you'd like to put your money where your mouth is sir I can even stream it for everyone

So you are saying you are going to stand directly in front of my assault mech and win in a 1v1? Seriously?

Please rethink your position.

[Dracol]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 10:38 AM, said:

Face hugging an assault mech in a light mech is the stupidest thing you can do. You are literally staying directly in the assault mech's cone of fire where they have superior armor and weaponry.

Except of couse if ya in a comando facing an atlas, the humping its leg puts you under atlas, firing arc.

Any highly skilled light pilot should now that at least.

[pwnface]

Dracol, on 25 November 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

Except of couse if ya in a comando facing an atlas, the humping its leg puts you under atlas, firing arc.

Any highly skilled light pilot should now that at least.

This is true for a DDC with chest mounted weaponry. A Boar's Head can fit 6xMPL on it's arms where it can articulate and easily hit you at point blank range. Most assaults don't have a difficult time hitting light mechs at point blank range.

Edited by pwnface, 25 November 2015 - 10:46 AM.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 10:43 AM, said:

So you are saying you are going to stand directly in front of my assault mech and win in a 1v1? Seriously?

Please rethink your position.

No, I said I'm going to use a face hug tactic to beat up on your assault with my light mech. I'm not going to stand stil lin front of you and let you shoot me. So again, any time you'd like to put my tactic to the test I'm willing to buy the prmium time and spring for the match

I've actually wanted to do some "mini" events like this using private matches for a long time. It will help create some tutorials and videos for new players as well as put to bed some of the "best" and "meta" and "popular" arguments on the forums. We can truly test balance and tactics and such.

P.S.
Yes, my little light mech would own an assault mech 1v1 if I'm face hugging unless they get very lucky.

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

No, I said I'm going to use a face hug tactic to beat up on your assault with my light mech. I'm not going to stand stil lin front of you and let you shoot me. So again, any time you'd like to put my tactic to the test I'm willing to buy the prmium time and spring for the match

I've actually wanted to do some "mini" events like this using private matches for a long time. It will help create some tutorials and videos for new players as well as put to bed some of the "best" and "meta" and "popular" arguments on the forums. We can truly test balance and tactics and such.

P.S.
Yes, my little light mech would own an assault mech 1v1 if I'm face hugging unless they get very lucky.

I think when you mean "face hugging" you actually mean "back hugging", otherwise you are just insane. There is absolutely no reason to stay in front of an assault mech as a light mech.

I'm happy to 1v1 you for fun regardless but if you did indeed mean "face hugging" as in staying face to face with an assault mech then you must be playing with really bad assault pilots.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

I think when you mean "face hugging" you actually mean "back hugging", otherwise you are just insane. There is absolutely no reason to stay in front of an assault mech as a light mech.

I'm happy to 1v1 you for fun regardless but if you did indeed mean "face hugging" as in staying face to face with an assault mech then you must be playing with really bad assault pilots.

I'll be happy to show you Maybe we can set something up for next weekend or next week some time We'll stream it and I'll open some threads for battle requests.

Actually. Would you guys be interested in requesting specific battles? I'm willing to stream battle requests and I'm sure we can find players who have any combinations of mechs to meet any requests.

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2015 - 11:00 AM, said:

I'll be happy to show you Maybe we can set something up for next weekend or next week some time We'll stream it and I'll open some threads for battle requests.

Actually. Would you guys be interested in requesting specific battles? I'm willing to stream battle requests and I'm sure we can find players who have any combinations of mechs to meet any requests.

Sure, send me a friend request and I'll add you when I'm off work.

[Karl Streiger]

Almond Brown, on 25 November 2015 - 10:25 AM, said:

And after the first 10 Clan < Bids went horribly wrong, or horribly right, on the field, then what? Everyone goes back to Stock Clan vs Stock I.S. straight up numbers? Or your Stock button becomes the Ultra Niche of an already Niche game and the wailing of "long wait times" for Stock Matches makes a huge come back, similar to what we hear about CW now? LOL! Brilliant...

Your lack of imagination seems to be representativ

Anyhow i don't would try it in the anomymity of Public games just for the lobbys were you know the others and when they behave like douchbags its the last time they get an invitation.

On the other hand i don't think that the niche would be that small - maybe some of the guys that helped that this game did even launched and are not even more the target audience would come back when its more battletech less FPS

[Triordinant]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

I think when you mean "face hugging" you actually mean "back hugging", otherwise you are just insane. There is absolutely no reason to stay in front of an assault mech as a light mech.

If they're at your knees you can't bend down enough to aim at them. PGI should let all 'mechs bend down enough to almost aim at their own toes. No one constructs a combat vehicle with a blind spot if they can help it.

[pwnface]

Triordinant, on 25 November 2015 - 11:06 AM, said:

If they're at your knees you can't bend down enough to aim at them. PGI should let all 'mechs bend down enough to almost aim at their own toes. No one constructs a combat vehicle with a blind spot if they can help it.

As I stated earlier, in my experience this is only ever an issue if you do not have arm mounted weaponry. If you have only chest mounted weapons, this can certainly be a problem.

[Jaeger Gonzo]

Sandpit, on 25 November 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

^
I'll happily take my Spider 1v1 against an Atlas. The Atlas isn't going to have much fun, I can promise you that.

We talk about Stock game play, I guarantee that you would have not much chances. Atlas in Stock in real Atlas, thing that is causing "ohh sh/it" factor. Not the fat boy to beat that you know from public full custom.

Lily from animove, on 25 November 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

For IS vs IS, or clan vs clan, maybe. But stock IS vs stock Clan would be broken as well.

Is just fine even ISvClans. Is that you need to play it then as was meant to be played in BT and that's mean asymmetrical settings, we tested it and the best number to have fun on both sides was 5v8, so 10v16 is a right number, without any need for zellbringen stuff.
Anyway must of us want 3025 Stock the most, for a start at least.

Almond Brown, on 25 November 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

I never said they had to be. What I said is that when used in a Competitive environment, the Cream will always rise. A full blown Stock Only mode in MWO open to ALL would devolve so quickly in to the BEST 2 in each weight class it would not be even funny. If you think otherwise, I do not know what to tell you. SMM was a FUN outing doing something different. You put K/D and W/L on the line for real... another story that.

You brought your own crap Mech to that fight good sir and proved my point for me btw. Thanks.

All our tests evidence, dozens of dozens games, proof that Stock 3025 is far better balanced and give far more diversity in game play, mech and tactics used then full custom. That's even without needed changes for proper Stock Mode, like BT weapon stats or 2x TT ammo value. You don`t have not much proof to pull up your statement except thing that happen in Full Custom. Stock is very different to Full Custom and you can't really compare those two if you want to stay serious.

Every game needs a "lol" thing. Goblins in Blood Bowl or this one, but watch out for Urbie in Stock Mode, that's the real pleasure. So that's not proved anything except that this one mech is a "lol" mech, but overall balance and game play is for sure far better balanced and diverse.

But I can guarantee you something. If this game will someday have real Stock Mode, no one would come with thread named like this one, ever.

[Triordinant]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

As I stated earlier, in my experience this is only ever an issue if you do not have arm mounted weaponry. If you have only chest mounted weapons, this can certainly be a problem.

A lot of folks avoid mounting weapons in their arms because they're low-slung and prefer to use high-mounted torso weapons for hill humping and their arms as shields. A few 'mechs have high-mounted arm weapons (like Jags) but if they're far apart a light can face hug between the long gun barrels.

[Repasy Cooper]

Pjwned, on 24 November 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

[/i]

Never said it was difficult to spread your laser damage all over the mech or to get cored while firing the laser since you're not twisting.

[/b]

Nice cop out there bub. Even if your explanation was relevant (it isn't) and you had any credibility (you don't), that doesn't say a single thing about such a stupid fix single handedly fixing every balance problem.

Go shine some lasers into your eyes.

We're dealing with a whole 'nother level of stupid here, guys.

[Bishop Steiner]

Triordinant, on 25 November 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

A lot of folks avoid mounting weapons in their arms because they're low-slung and prefer to use high-mounted torso weapons for hill humping and their arms as shields. A few 'mechs have high-mounted arm weapons (like Jags) but if they're far apart a light can face hug between the long gun barrels.

so...now It's PGIs fault players want to build extremely limiting meta mechs and others are abusing them for it? Not sure how it's anyone's issue but the pilots that he has no arm mounted weapons. So not sure what the issue is. Should we make all mechs have more pitch? To further encourage metabuilds? I came in part way through here, so probably ma missing some things, but I'm genuinely confused.

[pwnface]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 November 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

so...now It's PGIs fault players want to build extremely limiting meta mechs and others are abusing them for it? Not sure how it's anyone's issue but the pilots that he has no arm mounted weapons. So not sure what the issue is. Should we make all mechs have more pitch? To further encourage metabuilds? I came in part way through here, so probably ma missing some things, but I'm genuinely confused.

He's responding to me regarding the ability for assault mechs to articulate low enough to hit a light mech at point blank range. Although he wasn't paying attention either as I was specifically talking about a Boar's Head.

[Bishop Steiner]

pwnface, on 25 November 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

He's responding to me regarding the ability for assault mechs to articulate low enough to hit a light mech at point blank range. Although he wasn't paying attention either as I was specifically talking about a Boar's Head.

Ah, OK.

Well, sorry, I don't think PGI should do that. For one, if hitreg ever gets fixed, that's about the only safe haven a light has, 2) of your mech has arm hardpoints, and you don't use them, I don't believe PGI is obligated to feed the Meta further. You don't want guns in your arms? Well don't cry when someone exploits that.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 25 November 2015 - 09:08 AM, said:

As I have been saying in other threads, balancing should be an entire system instead of this single-minded approach via weapons and equipment. This system should include the following:

• enemies (IS vs. Clan, IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan)
  
• formations
  
• game modes
  
• drop weight
  
• respawn size (as reinforcements)
  
• victory conditions
  
• Mech construction rules
  
• weapon attributes and mechanics
  
• equipment attributes and mechanics
  
• reward system
  
• etc. etc. etc.

Also, more emphasis should be placed on Community Warfare and not the public queues. The former should be improved significantly and made the de facto entry point, while the latter should be significantly de-emphasized and be relegated as the non-PVE training ground.


Then have Solaris for eSports, and restrict all of that there. And in Hades' name, keep eSports the hell out of Community Warfare.

Well, I've already responded to the idea of asymmetric balance which seems to be a core aspect of your idea for overall balance, and my position on that hasn't really changed. Not saying you don't have a point, but I don't agree with doing something like that.

As for the rest like game modes, drop weights (maybe?), victory conditions, mech construction rules, weapon attributes & mechanics, equipment attributes & mechanics, and reward systems I (at least mostly...I think) agree those all could use some work, although we might have different ideas on those things too.

Edited by Pjwned, 25 November 2015 - 04:05 PM.

[Mystere]

Pjwned, on 25 November 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

Well, I've already responded to the idea of asymmetric balance which seems to be a core aspect of your idea for overall balance, and my position on that hasn't really changed. Not saying you don't have a point, but I don't agree with doing something like that.

As for the rest like game modes, drop weights (maybe?), victory conditions, mech construction rules, weapon attributes & mechanics, equipment attributes & mechanics, and reward systems I (at least mostly) agree those all could use some work, although we might have different ideas on those things too.

I think you might have misinterpreted my list. It is a list for the elements of an asymmetric balancing system, not things to be taking in isolation from the rest.