190 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 23 November 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

That may be the case, but part of the reason we are forced into this nonsense is because the population has shrunk. As such I'm having a hard time understanding how pissing off half the population with the voting system is supposed to help.

Based on the threads and feedback on the forums I would put the numbers MUCH lower than half the population.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Based on the threads and feedback on the forums I would put the numbers MUCH lower than half the population.

I was using Bishop's "numbers" where he said for every person complaining there is one that likes it. Though things have quieted down some I would say it was at one point close to that 50/50 margin. That being said my point still stands even if it is as little as 10% that hate it I'm not seeing the benefit in pissing them off if we are already having population problems.

[Coolant]

Curious to know if OP is still holding out...

[C E Dwyer]

WarHippy, on 23 November 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

That may be the case, but part of the reason we are forced into this nonsense is because the population has shrunk. As such I'm having a hard time understanding how pissing off half the population with the voting system is supposed to help.

Regional servers the caused of all this, the population has been pretty stable, painfully low for a Triple A game, which is also a subjective statement, but stable. Turkey Raid event P.G.I claimed over 17,000

Something a few big mouths harped on about until P.G.I caved and made them.

There was nothing wrong with the old system it should have stayed, most Steam newbs will see the free mech bays in CW try playing it before they are close to being ready for it, and leave, so all this crap like voting was for nothing..

Edited by Cathy, 23 November 2015 - 11:28 AM.

[Sandpit]

WarHippy, on 23 November 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

I was using Bishop's "numbers" where he said for every person complaining there is one that likes it. Though things have quieted down some I would say it was at one point close to that 50/50 margin. That being said my point still stands even if it is as little as 10% that hate it I'm not seeing the benefit in pissing them off if we are already having population problems.

It's never a good idea to piss of customers, even 10%. With that said, if the other 90% enjoy, don't care, don't mind, want, or just plain old support an idea, then yes, it's ok that 10% don't like it when the majority of players do like it. There's always going to be a certain % who don't like an idea. From what I've seen those that dislike it enough to "quit" are very much a minority.

[Sandpit]

Cathy, on 23 November 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Regional servers the caused of all this, the population has been pretty stable, painfully low for a Triple A game, which is also a subjective statement, but stable.

Something a few big mouths harped on about until P.G.I caved and made them.

There was nothing wrong with the old system it should have stayed, most Steam newbs will see the free mech bays in CW try playing it before they are close to being ready for it, and leave, so all this crap like voting was for nothing..

...
uhm..
Do you have any kind of links, facts, etc. to back up any of those claims?
Also, just because someone supports an idea doesn't make them a "loudmouth" nor does it mean PGI "caved" to cater to them. Sorry, but for the most part, the only ones I see being condescending, rude, name calling, combative, etc. on this topic are those that don't like the voting system.

You don't like a feature? Hey, that's great. Post about it, explain what you don't like about it. Better yet, how about coming up with suggestions on how to improve the experience while you're at it? There's a difference in feedback and
"Something a few big mouths harped on about until P.G.I caved and made them" isn't feedback

That's especially true when you've completely disregarded how it really came about, the years of feedback and discussion held about the topic, as well as the fact that there are many in the community who do like this system.

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's never a good idea to piss of customers, even 10%. With that said, if the other 90% enjoy, don't care, don't mind, want, or just plain old support an idea, then yes, it's ok that 10% don't like it when the majority of players do like it. There's always going to be a certain % who don't like an idea. From what I've seen those that dislike it enough to "quit" are very much a minority.

If 10% left yesterday, 10% leave today, and 10% will leave tomorrow, how many are left?

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 23 November 2015 - 11:32 AM, said:

If 10% left yesterday, 10% leave today, and 10% will leave tomorrow, how many are left?

That's not 10% now is it? That's 30% and again, based on what I see in game and on forums? The people who don't like it to that extreme appear to be FAR less than 30%, we seemed to be much closer with that initial 10% (although I think even that is high honestly) that are so unhappy with voting they're willing to leave.

As far as that equation?
well you have 70% of the original players left. Now all the new players coming in know no other system and are content with it. So as soon as that % that left is replaced you have an even number and stable player base, and nobody else leaving due to this feature.

[C E Dwyer]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:30 AM, said:

...
uhm..
Do you have any kind of links, facts, etc. to back up any of those claims?
Also, just because someone supports an idea doesn't make them a "loudmouth" nor does it mean PGI "caved" to cater to them. Sorry, but for the most part, the only ones I see being condescending, rude, name calling, combative, etc. on this topic are those that don't like the voting system.

You don't like a feature? Hey, that's great. Post about it, explain what you don't like about it. Better yet, how about coming up with suggestions on how to improve the experience while you're at it? There's a difference in feedback and
"Something a few big mouths harped on about until P.G.I caved and made them" isn't feedback

That's especially true when you've completely disregarded how it really came about, the years of feedback and discussion held about the topic, as well as the fact that there are many in the community who do like this system.

These years of feedback, happened on twitter did it, or was it the silent majority ?

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

It's never a good idea to piss of customers, even 10%. With that said, if the other 90% enjoy, don't care, don't mind, want, or just plain old support an idea, then yes, it's ok that 10% don't like it when the majority of players do like it. There's always going to be a certain % who don't like an idea. From what I've seen those that dislike it enough to "quit" are very much a minority.

While there was some grumbling under the old system people were not leaving over it, nor were they closing their wallets because they couldn't vote. Under the new system that was added because of population problems you have people no matter how few that are leaving and closing their wallets. When you are having population problems every group no matter how small counts.

You are not going to be winning people back with actions like these, and that is what we need right now is people coming back or at the very least staying. Eventually you are going to run enough people off with changes like these that even the ones that were happy with the changes are going to start asking where everyone went, and by then it is pretty much too late.

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

That's not 10% now is it? That's 30% and again, based on what I see in game and on forums? The people who don't like it to that extreme appear to be FAR less than 30%, we seemed to be much closer with that initial 10% (although I think even that is high honestly) that are so unhappy with voting they're willing to leave.

As far as that equation?
well you have 70% of the original players left. Now all the new players coming in know no other system and are content with it. So as soon as that % that left is replaced you have an even number and stable player base, and nobody else leaving due to this feature.

The correct answer is 72.9% when compared to the day before yesterday.

And I think you missed my point. What if 10% (or even just 5%) left the game every time some change was not liked? What will be the breaking point at which the MWO population will no longer be viable?

Edited by Mystere, 23 November 2015 - 11:57 AM.

[Sandpit]

Cathy, on 23 November 2015 - 11:48 AM, said:

These years of feedback, happened on twitter did it, or was it the silent majority ?

ok maybe I missed the years of feedback and evidence showing that regional servers are the cause of this. Can you point it out to me? I've been here just as long as anyone else just about and I don't remember any of this.

I remember countless euro and aussie players needing servers in their region because pings were 600+ and made the game near unplayable for many in those geographic areas. If this is what you're talking about then I guess yes, those "loudmouths" wanting pings closer to 100 than 1000 should have just kept their mouths shut?

As far as the old system. I personally have pointed out several things that were wrong with the old system and exactly why voting has improved the situation.

WarHippy, on 23 November 2015 - 11:54 AM, said:

While there was some grumbling under the old system people were not leaving over it, nor were they closing their wallets because they couldn't vote. Under the new system that was added because of population problems you have people no matter how few that are leaving and closing their wallets. When you are having population problems every group no matter how small counts.

You are not going to be winning people back with actions like these, and that is what we need right now is people coming back or at the very least staying. Eventually you are going to run enough people off with changes like these that even the ones that were happy with the changes are going to start asking where everyone went, and by then it is pretty much too late.

People leave online games every day. It's just business as usual. If anywhere near the number of players some are claiming had left over this, PGI would have closed its doors by now. Again, based on everything I've seen and heard, and experienced, it's (as usual with most cases) a vocal minority on the forums and social media.

You really think if 30% of the population up and left over this feature PGI wouldn't change it? We can all agree that PGI is stubborn, but it has been shown that if you get the majority of the community voicing on something they have no choice BUT to listen.

Mystere, on 23 November 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

The correct answer is 72.9% when compared to the day before yesterday.

And I think you missed my point. What if 10% (or even just 5%) left the game every time some change was not liked? What will be the breaking point at which the MWO population will no longer be viable?

I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree. Most of the players who "quit" are back playing within a week, or "quit" 2-3 times weekly. We haven't had a mass exodus like that since the whole island debacle. THAT was an example of losing chunks of players at a time and that wasn't even all that "massive" in all honesty.

I just don't see it (and I COULD be wrong) as being that major of an issue for the majority and think those that dislike it to this extreme are in a minority.

Personally, I like the new system, but I'd rather see discussions about how to improve and modify it to accommodate more players instead of arguing to remove it. There's at LEAST just as many people who like the new system that don't. Who's to say they don't leave if the system reverts back?

What about new players that come in under the voting system and then leave because it reverts back and they don't like the "new" old system?

Arguments like this just never make much sense to me simply because of the reasons I stated just above. The whole "you'll lose players if you don't revert a change" makes no more impact than "You'll lose all of your new players if you revert to another system that they don't like"

[Revis Volek]

Cathy, on 23 November 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Regional servers the caused of all this, the population has been pretty stable, painfully low for a Triple A game, which is also a subjective statement, but stable. Turkey Raid event P.G.I claimed over 17,000

Something a few big mouths harped on about until P.G.I caved and made them.

There was nothing wrong with the old system it should have stayed, most Steam newbs will see the free mech bays in CW try playing it before they are close to being ready for it, and leave, so all this crap like voting was for nothing..

Who claims this is a Triple A game?


I assure you it is not....

[Mawai]

Without the multipliers, you won't see some of the less popular maps or game modes in anything like their actual proportions of people who want to play them. Particularly the game modes since there are a lot of folks who prefer skirmish.

On the other hand, the mini-game of switching votes to try to build your multiplier was a bit amusing. If they want to mitigate that I would go with what another player suggested.

You can select one map and one mode and can't change it. Proportions of voting are NOT displayed until the vote result is displayed. This way you can vote for a map hoping it will be unpopular but then if everyone does the same you will get to play it. I think a system like this will tend to get folks just voting for what they want to play and the system working more like it is intended to.

[WarHippy]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

People leave online games every day. It's just business as usual. If anywhere near the number of players some are claiming had left over this, PGI would have closed its doors by now. Again, based on everything I've seen and heard, and experienced, it's (as usual with most cases) a vocal minority on the forums and social media.

Yes, people leave online games every day, but most of those are not leaving games that are having population problems. People leaving here and there is one thing, but actively pissing off decent chunks of an already small player population is not the way to go if you hope to improve things.

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

You really think if 30% of the population up and left over this feature PGI wouldn't change it? We can all agree that PGI is stubborn, but it has been shown that if you get the majority of the community voicing on something they have no choice BUT to listen.

At this point I think PGI is in desperation mode with a sinking ship, and making mistakes as a result. They are punching holes in the hull as fast as they are trying to patch them. It may take a long time for it to go down, but without drastic improvements things are not going to get any better. I just don't believe voting is one of those improvements since it is just too divisive.

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

I didn't miss the point, I just don't agree. Most of the players who "quit" are back playing within a week, or "quit" 2-3 times weekly. We haven't had a mass exodus like that since the whole island debacle. THAT was an example of losing chunks of players at a time and that wasn't even all that "massive" in all honesty.

Some might be back, some won't be back, and some will attempt to do as much damage as possible on the way out. Some are more replaceable than others.

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

Personally, I like the new system, but I'd rather see discussions about how to improve and modify it to accommodate more players instead of arguing to remove it. There's at LEAST just as many people who like the new system that don't. Who's to say they don't leave if the system reverts back?

Because they were still here before it was implemented it is highly unlikely they will leave if it is reverted back to what it was. Though, it may make them bitter. Maybe they will act as a strong reminder for PGI not to try something like this for a third time?

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 12:20 PM, said:

What about new players that come in under the voting system and then leave because it reverts back and they don't like the "new" old system?

What about the new players that leave under the new system that for example end up liking conquest but hate skirmish and want to know why they can't just select conquest? Not seeing any value in playing what if.

Edited by WarHippy, 23 November 2015 - 01:34 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Put my vote directly agasint mode voting, I hate it can't stand it one of the worse things they did to this game

The population has shrunk to a fraction of its size. That lays on PGI. It has taken them to long to deliver on what they promised 3 years ago. The reason the vote is here is because folks were complaining of wait times. Well i would rather wait on extra 30 seconds for a skirmish match than play conquest any day of the week.

[DAYLEET]

Sandpit, on 23 November 2015 - 11:11 AM, said:

Based on the threads and feedback on the forums I would put the numbers MUCH lower than half the population.

Based on the feedback on the forum (both post in general and poll in suggestion) i would put the numbers who dislike the first voting system to be above 80%.

The new Voting system is not as hated simply because it is seen as the lesser of 2 evil. For now it is used as a trolling tool. But i saw no switch in the hate/love camp. The only good thing about the voting system is that every day you see new names who start participating in the forum and yes it just so happen that they do so to bash the new system.

I have not tried the new weighted voting system, so i can not say how good/bad it is other than i will hate being put in a position where i have to make choices that some people will hate and will force them to paly something they dont want. When it was random no one could be blamed.

Edited by DAYLEET, 23 November 2015 - 02:09 PM.

[-Teiwaz-]

Well I just wanted to get my say in, I do like the voting system. It could use some improvements, no changing your vote once cast and can not see the vote % until the end, something like that would be good, I believe. So my vote goes for good start PGI!

Edited by TigersRoar, 23 November 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Mystere]

Almond Brown, on 19 November 2015 - 11:04 AM, said:

Tried and Failed. There just wasn't enough cheese brought in to compliment all the WHINE everyone brought in after that MODE change was tried.

When did we have purely random selection?

[TexAce]

This thread is still running?
I still have to laugh everytime I see the title.