73 replies to this topic

[Bluttrunken]

Ridiculous thread and ridiculous demand.

[Khobai]

It's hardly ridiculous to try and fix screwed up mechs like the kitfox; which is 30 tons, slow as hell, and the size of a 50 ton mech. Allowing it to go the proper speed for a light (130+ kph) would be a good start to fixing it. It's actually more ridiculous to intentionally not fix it and leave useless mechs in the game.

The reality is locked engine ratings cause serious problems for certain clan mechs. They will never be competitive mechs because of their wrong sized engines. Leaving those mechs uncompetitive and actually making them worse by nerfing cxl makes no sense.

The kitfox should be able to use at least a 210 engine. Because a slow huge 30 ton mech is the epitome of fail. And the executioner is the opposite extreme with too much engine that it loses it's whole purpose as an assault mech. The executioner should be able to take a smaller engine.

Clan IIC mechs will have unlocked cxl engines. So I see no reason the kitfox and executioner can't have unlocked engines too.

Edited by Khobai, 25 November 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[Haralachan]

Tesunie, on 20 November 2015 - 09:45 PM, said:

My Thor (Summoner) would beg to differ.

I LOL'd.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Hey Khobai,

Can't agree with you on this one. Clan (Omnimechs) should not be able to change their engine; especially with the current ability to change Omnipods. This is a "one or the other" situation.

Main reason for my thinking? Differentiation. And this isn't actually a "techline" issue. This is a Omni/Battle -mech issue.

For the future, I also hope that IS Omnis will be able to change their Omnipods, but not their Engine/Armor/Structure.

On the other hand, something does need to be done to even the score a bit. But that really should be a change in IS XL engines. Nothing else will really bring the techline and mech-type divisions in line with each other.

Make IS XL engines work like Clan XL engines; that is a change I support fully.

[PFC Carsten]

If you don't want go to pure ballistic, the least common denominator (same 15 Heatsinks, same sum of structure and armor) via smurfy says:

TDR/EBJ
- 29/26.5 tons [28.5/26.5 tons, if same armor values for both, giving TBR higher survivability due to higher structure points]
- 31/29 free slots
- TBR has arm activators, giving potential advantages against highly in-/declined enemies and UAVs.
- EBJ has favourable hardpoint locations AFAIA
- EBJ has lower silhouette and does not pull as much aggro from other team.

TBR:
TBR-PRIME
EBJ:
EBJ-PRIME

Edited by PFC Carsten, 26 November 2015 - 02:56 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Brandarr Gunnarson, on 26 November 2015 - 01:35 AM, said:

Hey Khobai,

Can't agree with you on this one. Clan (Omnimechs) should not be able to change their engine; especially with the current ability to change Omnipods. This is a "one or the other" situation.

Main reason for my thinking? Differentiation. And this isn't actually a "techline" issue. This is a Omni/Battle -mech issue.

For the future, I also hope that IS Omnis will be able to change their Omnipods, but not their Engine/Armor/Structure.

On the other hand, something does need to be done to even the score a bit. But that really should be a change in IS XL engines. Nothing else will really bring the techline and mech-type divisions in line with each other.

Make IS XL engines work like Clan XL engines; that is a change I support fully.

So you think that Battlemechs should be strictly superior to Omnimechs? Because, as ive said a million times, full customisation is hugely, HUGELY more powerful than Omnipod swapping. Its not balanced. It never will be. Left like this, in a year or so time when we have a decent number of IICs to choose from, you'll never see another Omni again.

My personal opinion is that Engine rating / type and JJs should stay locked, with DHS, Armour and Structure changed to dynamic - that leaves a difference, but is closer to balanced. Unfortunately that means certain mechs (Mist Lynx, Kitfox, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle) with REALLY out of whack engine sizes will stay crap forever, but its an improvement (at least the Gargoyle could take ES for 4 more tons)

[Steve Pryde]

Locked Engine is fine, I don't want pilot a slower Timber Wolf, but give me the possibility to upgrade to endo/ferro for my Summoner, Mad Dog, Nova would profit from that without being OP.

[Adamski]

Steve Pryde, on 26 November 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Locked Engine is fine, I don't want pilot a slower Timber Wolf, but give me the possibility to upgrade to endo/ferro for my Summoner, Mad Dog, Nova would profit from that without being OP.

As long as they also lock which slots the upgrades take (no more head laser on HBR if it has Ferro etc), and also give the HBR & EBJ the same quirks as the TBR.

It still might see some crazy builds become possible, like a DWF with Endo can carry 2x Gauss 2x UAC10, with a sustained DPS of 13 without pilot skills. With pilot skills it can max DPS of 14. (It needs the endo to free up tonnage for 5t more ammo)

[Tesunie]

Steve Pryde, on 26 November 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Locked Engine is fine, I don't want pilot a slower Timber Wolf, but give me the possibility to upgrade to endo/ferro for my Summoner, Mad Dog, Nova would profit from that without being OP.

Adamski, on 26 November 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

As long as they also lock which slots the upgrades take (no more head laser on HBR if it has Ferro etc), and also give the HBR & EBJ the same quirks as the TBR.

It still might see some crazy builds become possible, like a DWF with Endo can carry 2x Gauss 2x UAC10, with a sustained DPS of 13 without pilot skills. With pilot skills it can max DPS of 14. (It needs the endo to free up tonnage for 5t more ammo)

To each of you, I like each of your points. It's a far more reasonable request, that doesn't make the typical "op" clan mech even more "op", but as an average would help the weaker clan mechs. (Probably Direwolf and Ebon being the two exceptions to this clause.)

I would like to consider the effects of this proposal in more detail, but it has far better integrity to it than the current proposal of this thread. It's sounds more solid, with more benefit to it.

[Carl Vickers]

Khobai, on 22 November 2015 - 07:20 PM, said:

Timberwolf has both ES and FF and still can't use multiple ballistics because it's 375 engine takes up all it's pod space

Problem is huge engines taking up all their tonnage not lack of ES or FF

Um I use dual UAC5's on my Timby with 4 med lasers and 6 tons of ammo, works a treat!

That being said I dont like locked heatsinks and weapons, I agree with locked engines but we should be able to do Fero and Endo and not be locked into certain systems, ie 7 DHS in Warhawk. PGI unlocked the flamer on the Nova, why not unlock the other locked equipment.

Edited by Carl, 26 November 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[Tesunie]

Carl, on 26 November 2015 - 08:30 PM, said:

PGI unlocked the flamer on the Nova, why not unlock the other locked equipment.

Because I can... Adder. Not the Nova.

And before they unlock any equipment, PGI really needs to consider it's effect on balance. After all, once it's unlocked, it would become very difficult to relock it afterwards. Imagine the complaints then...

PS: According to the OP of this thread, 2 UAC5s do not apparently count as a ballistic builds (because I run the same build on my Summoner).

Edited by Tesunie, 26 November 2015 - 10:26 PM.

[Brandarr Gunnarson]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 November 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

So you think that Battlemechs should be strictly superior to Omnimechs? Because, as ive said a million times, full customisation is hugely, HUGELY more powerful than Omnipod swapping. Its not balanced. It never will be. Left like this, in a year or so time when we have a decent number of IICs to choose from, you'll never see another Omni again.

My personal opinion is that Engine rating / type and JJs should stay locked, with DHS, Armour and Structure changed to dynamic - that leaves a difference, but is closer to balanced. Unfortunately that means certain mechs (Mist Lynx, Kitfox, Ice Ferret, Gargoyle) with REALLY out of whack engine sizes will stay crap forever, but its an improvement (at least the Gargoyle could take ES for 4 more tons)

Oh, I was only speaking to the issue at hand. I also don't see a problem with unlocking ES and FF for Omnis.

But, I think that Standard equipment (engines, structure and armor) should be 10-20% more durable. This to ensure it is still a viable choice.

I love the Summoner. I don't mind the locked engine and JJs, but I'm desperate for ES structure!!!

(As a note, while I'm at it; I would also make IS ES and FF take only 10 crits each, closing the gap between Clan and IS tech even further. But I doubt that could ever be pushed!)

[Khobai]

Unlocking FF/ES doesn't help the kit fix though. Again it's a slow 30 ton light that's the size of a 50 ton mech. Yes the urbie is just as slow but at least it's the proper size for a 30 ton mech. The kitfox is nova sized in addition to being slow though.

Pgi doesn't rescale mechs. They never have once. Which is why unlocking the kitfoxs engine is the only real option left to make it viable. Just because you unlock some omnimech engines doesn't mean you have to unlock them all. IS mechs have wildly varied max engine ratings, this would be no different.

Edited by Khobai, 27 November 2015 - 11:51 AM.

[Tesunie]

Khobai, on 27 November 2015 - 11:44 AM, said:

Unlocking FF/ES doesn't help the kit fix though. Again it's a slow 30 ton light that's the size of a 50 ton mech. Yes the urbie is just as slow but at least it's the proper size for a 30 ton mech. The kitfox is nova sized in addition to being slow though.

Pgi doesn't rescale mechs. They never have once. Which is why unlocking the kitfoxs engine is the only real option left to make it viable. Just because you unlock some omnimech engines doesn't mean you have to unlock them all. IS mechs have wildly varied max engine ratings, this would be no different.

Up for a rescale. Work in progress. My Wolfhound, Panther and Locust would like to talk to you about your opinion of slow light mechs. (That Locust. I don't know how, but people can't seem to kill it! It seems like a fast Locust they can kill in one shot. But a slow one? ...)