13 replies to this topic

[Anakha]

After playing and reviewing the changes made with this most recent patch I don't see that anything was done to help upgrade or improve the Summoner vs the other Clan mechs. I believe one of the items that was stated by PGI was that they wanted to balance mechs and the Summoner is massively imbalanced vs the other good clan mechs. It still needs the ability to upgrade to Endo Steel and it still needs armor buffs to the arms. Furthermore it really needs more energy heat dissipation as it lacks the tonnage for heat sinks. All these balance changes and one of the most popular Clan mechs wasn't even touched? Shame!

[SkippyT72]

I 2nd that post, it should be a great heavy and was supposed to be better in ways than the Timber for it's ability to do different things, but other than it being the "fastest" heavy it really does not have anything to make it close to the Ebon or Timber.

[John1352]

How about -40% ERPPC heat generation? That would bring it up to the other mechs.

[ChapeL]

Give to Summoner ErPPCs the treatement given to Huggin SRM4s ( I kid ..god no don't do that... who needs a machie gun PPC ?... oh wait ... )

[Mercarryn]

In order to buff the Summoner, PGI should remove the Timberwolf S variant completely, because with the changeable jumpjets, the timberwolf occupies an area where the Summoner should shine with its locked jump jets: mobility.

But I doubt that will ever happen, sad, but true.

[VortexD]

Totally agree was really disappointed that the summoner didn't get any help

[Silvverr]

I agree with getting rid of the Timber Wolf S variant, but if they did get rid of it the people who own the mech should be given the c-bills back, as for some of us 15,000,000 of em is quite a lot, and it took a lot of time to get it

Edited by Tsunami7603, 22 November 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[MechWarrior414712]

They should give a much better set bonus quirk. For example 8/8 prime would result in like a 30% reduced PPC 30% reduced LB-10x? This treatment should be made for all clan mechs, but on a larger scale for the **** ones.

[SpeedFiend]

The Summoner right now suffers from a lack of hardpoints and tonnage. Low tonnage calls for smaller, lighter weapons, for which there are no hardpoints. Lack of hardpoints calls for bigger, heavier weapons, for which there is no tonnage. Either go full Grand Summoner (Endo steel and removable JJs) or some new variants (Summoner F, or perhaps a Summoner G minus the heavy small laser). Hell, I'd even settle for the triple missile side torsos.

[Steele Rein]

It also has a MASSIVE CT hitbox that's almost impossible to miss. I can twist all I want while under fire, I rarely lose a side torso before my CT...

[Autobot9000]

I also second that original post. Summoner isn't viable at the moment.

[TheSilken]

Just allow it to remove the JJs, give it Omnipods that have 2 Energy hardpoints on both the Left and Right Side Torsos, and give it a general heat quirk such as - 10-20% total heat gen. That way the Summoner can run up to 8 energy weapons (allowing it to effectively use smaller ones), has some more tonnage, and it has the ability to actually run loadouts that are able to deal decent damage without overheating constantly due to lackluster heatsink numbers.

[Vitade]

The summoner needs SOMETHING.

I have piloted 2, and after maxing the armor, there is very little tonnage to "play with" There are also very few hardpoints, and the ones that do exist are poorly placed (low-hanging arm syndrome). As someone else pointed out before, the mech suffers greatly from the change between paper and video game due to the implementation of certain features (the weapon placement, the way heat and heatsinks work, and the weapon cooldown). This is compounded for variants like the Prime, which relies on weapons that are less effective than the alternatives in the clan arsenal (ER PPC does 10+ splash damage in MWO, while on Pen and paper it does 15 to a single location, the LB 10-X is in a similar place, being less easy to use than the ER Large or Large Pulse laser, despite it's lower heat generation.

One solution, perhaps for the Prime, would be to massively reduce the cooldown and heat generated by its weapons. This would allow the limited number of weapons to effectively act as a higher number, as the weapons would fire more often. Additionally, adding an extra mech/weapon module slot (or two) would make the mech much more efficient, and customisable. I could see playing a Prime "stock" if my ER PPC (as poorly placed as it is) could fire more often, giving me a more effective damage curve in a brawl. The tools are all there for the Summoner to be an effective agile brawler, which is what the Clans seemed to use it for in the BT Universe, it just needs some help via the Quirk system, which was designed specifically to handle situations like this.

[InspectorG]

Just found this thread, lolz.

Long time Summoner aficionado.

My ideas are in the context of fixing the chassis with the LEAST work needed so quirks will mainly be the way.

So, the Summoner.
Strengths:
High ballistic mounts - but see below.
Decent hitboxes, can tank a little.
As of current skill nerf, its fairly agile. Fairly. Again see below.
Nice cockpit view

Weaknesses: (here we go)
Limited tonnage. 20.5 for guns
No Endo
Too many hard locked items.
Not enough tonnage for the Ballistic hardpoints to be used well.
Low slung arms = clear shot but hits terrain.
6JJ are not 'worth it' yet.
Wide convergence
Missile shoulder drum = shoot here
Most Clan mediums can match or exceed the Summoner's firepower.

The only thing saving it from being outright bad is clantech.

SO IF ITS ROLE IS TO BE A AGILE STRIKER

general quirks for all chassis:

More Structure for ST and Arms
More JJ boost
Better JJ recharge
better infotech should that be a thing

Now the chassis specific quirks/roles

Prime = Dakka builds: 1. UAC20+2MPL 2. 1UAC10+4ERML 3.Gauss+4ERML
Ammo
Ballistic Heat quirk.
UAC jam reduction 50%
MPL heat
MPL duration
ERML duration (at least 20%)
Gauss ammo
Gauss cooldown - would have to be generous

SMN-B missile boat. 1. LRM40 2. LRM30+2ERML 3. 5SRM6 4. 5SRM4 5. SSRM as above.
LRM10 Heat
LRM10 cooldown
LRM10 SPREAD

SRM Heat
SRM SPREAD
SRM Velocity
SRM Range

SSRM cooldown

SMN - C Poptart or mix load. 1. Gauss+ERPPC 1. UAC10+ERPPC 3. 2UAC5+3ERML
ERPPC Heat
ERPPC Velocity
ERPPC cooldown

Ballistic ammo
Ballistic cooldown

Energy duration

SMN-D Lazors 1. 4ERLL 2. 3LPL 3. 2LPL+2ERML

Energy Heat
Energy Cooldown
ERLL Heat
ERLL DURATION 40%
ERLL Range

Pulse Lazor Heat
Pulse Lazor Duration 15%
MPL Range 15%

The above are just broad roles. Quirks can be pod or chassis specific, there arent that many pods anyhow.

THE REAL FIX

At least for the energy builds would be

Side Torso Pods with 2-3 high mounted E. EZ PZ

Arm pods with 3E or even just a Right Arm Pod with 3E would go a long way.

3E arm pods + 2E ST pods = 10E, enough for a ERSL boat at least.

An Arm with 3M would mitigate that ST missile pod.
Two arm Pods with 3M each would further a SRM boat. With 6-7 total M Hardpoints, SRM4s could be a thing.

What do you guys think?

And if anyone at PGI really likes this i can be rewarded with a Golden Summoner, lols.