192 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

So, the youths you coach, say in baseball, compete against a Major League team, not playing nicely, but full tilt? And the youths don't have shoes but sandals? Congrats, you got it!

You aren't talking about this thread anymore. This belongs in the really bad team vs really good team whining thread, where the really good team is good at the game AND takes meta compliant builds and the really bad team is full of bad players with a couple MLs, a large laser and an LRM 10. That is a separate issue.

This thread is about players who can't communicate as effectively because they don't want to talk not being able to have the coordinate with their team. This issue is exacerbated by player choice to play with mech builds that are "fun" or "lore builds" that aren't very effective. The question remaining there is, if your ego can't handle losing, why are you intentionally handicapping yourself?

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 25 November 2015 - 02:12 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Relatively not to far off though. But people like you rather talk down any differences so that the seal clubbing can continue. The sad part is, that you seem to expect the seals to applaud you for that.

No one wants to club seals. You are crazy if you think that. This is precisely why I almost never play CW, because it is not fun playing bad players, and simply having a DPS race with my teammates. No thanks. I find I have to bring more skillful play in the solo queue, which is far more interesting.

[Famous]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Relatively not to far off though. But people like you rather talk down any differences so that the seal clubbing can continue. The sad part is, that you seem to expect the seals to applaud you for that.

Then stop being a seal, end of. I picked up an FRR contract for the event because I read about their welcoming TS server during the Halloween event, checked it out, and wonders never cease, it was awesome.

Hell I had a match during the last event that some would call seal clubbing, we lost something like 48-20, but Omega was at 1/4 health and we almost pulled off the upset. If you can't enjoy playing a game with tactical objectives, stay in Solo, again very simple concept.

CW is completely different from Solo play, the game modes are different, the maps are different, why would you expect anything other than what Mechs show up to the fight to be similar?

[vandalhooch]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 01:45 PM, said:

So, the youths you coach, say in baseball, compete against a Major League team, not playing nicely, but full tilt? And the youths don't have shoes but sandals? Congrats, you got it!

So players who are in teams in this free to play game are the same thing as Major League Baseball players and PUGs are little kids? Do I really need to explain why this ANALOGY is completely absurd and irrelevant to my point?

Major league teams pay their players. CW teams don't.

Major league teams have access to resources that little leagues don't. CW teams use exactly the same mechs as PUGs.

Major League teams draft the best players from an available pool. Not every baseball player can be on a Major League team. Every MWO player can make their own team and invite anyone they want.

Major League games are played on fields designed for adult humans while little league fields are scaled down for smaller humans. CW players all play on exactly the same maps.

Major League teams hire hundreds of professionals to assist the team through coaching, training, resource management, etc. CW teams at most have a website and self-coach.

Finally, this analogy is irrelevant because I wasn't discussing youth sport as an analogy. I'm saying that the mental attitudes of youth competitors is exactly the same, not analogous, to the mental attitudes of grown adults. Some MWO players seem to have missed out on the life lessons learned from playing organized sports. The pure malarkey that gets spewed into this forum like "pre-mades are victimizing PUGs" or "it's like putting kids in a game against professional adults" is a sign of a mind that never learned those lessons.

It's a flipping game! If your opponents are better than you, then lose with some dignity. If you don't like losing then do what so many others have done. Find some friends and work together. If that really is beyond your ability to manage, then at the very least shut up about losing.

[pwnface]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:29 PM, said:

Sorry to disturb with facts, but split queues work pretty well for quick play.

This wouldn't work in CW because players and groups can choose what planets to attack/defend. If there is a premade on one side and only solo players on the other side queued up for a planet there isn't anything a matchmaker can do. If there were like 200+ players on each side for a planet, then it might be viable for a matchmaker to try to match groups with groups and solos with solos.

If you take away the ability for players to choose what planet they attack/defend then there is no point to CW at all.

[Aiden Skye]

I usually PUG CW these days. Most of my Unit Hates CW. Like the OP my VoIP has just stopped working for some reason. Most games are against premades and most are stomps, but I continue to grind to Galaxy Commander.

Lets be honest though it can get really frustrating when every game I put up around 2k damage even on the worst of stomps and like 8 players on the team are way below 1k. DC's...AFK's have a major impact as well...Trial mechs and loadouts inappropriate for the map / mode. New players, players who have no idea what they are doing...there is a lot of frustration to be found in CW puglandia. After a while these things will frustrate anyone. The complaints are just the symptoms.

As long as I get my loyalty points though. It will not disrupt my Chi

Edited by W A R K H A N, 25 November 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[Insufficient Skill]

*nvm*

Edited by Insufficient Skill, 19 January 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:48 PM, said:

Easy solution: Let Solo PUGs not choose, but throw them into a single queue. Units can continue to make a difference.

This doesn't actually address the OP's rant though. You would still end up with PUG teams facing large, organized teams,

[Insufficient Skill]

*nvm*

Edited by Insufficient Skill, 19 January 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Of course they would not, because they are in their own, solo queue. Solos don't want to win planets for... for what? They want to play the game - so give them a queue of their own, let the 200 or so active unit players populate CW and fight over control of a map which is reset at whim.

Are you saying that solo PUGs shouldn't be allowed to play CW? Because I totally disagree with that attitude.

[KahnWongFuChung]

You are brain dead if you think your little solution here would help CW. We need a player base an order of magnitude greater than has every graced this game in order to split the queues. Consequences people. They are a thing.
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Let me tell you friend I have played PUG I have played in 2-8 man groups in CW and it was fun right up until we hit 12 man premade teams with there cheese builds and ROFL STOMP attitudes and the games lasted 90% of the time under 5 minutes total.

Is this there fault of the premade 12 mans? yes and no when I and others played pug vs pug or random groups 2-8/pugs vs groups 2-8 the games were fun and lasted a minimum of 10 minutes+ to me that's playing CW and MWO a fun enjoyable time with good mostly balanced teams.

Back in Closed Beta many players and groups tried to tell PGI that there CW game model was flawed did they listen? HELLL NO!! So now we have low game population and ROFL stomp game play in CW. Many tried to tell PGI build a private lobby system for Comp player let them play CW and private leagues rather than destroy the game with total stomps that was happening in the solo MM games and now in CW.

But PGI is slow to learn you would think after 3+ years the bulb would get brighter on solo and CW matchmaking but it has not with this stupid vote system-reporting system and with there attitude with CW I don't think the game will progress enough to attract new players to play and pay into a total ROFL CW situation with low meta tactics and no fun game play on steam.

But who knows russ and PGI might wake up to the fact you make the game for the pugs and casuals first then make it for the hardcore premade players in a environment that is challenging for them.

But enough Forum Warrior BS it makes no difference what any of us say you stay and pay play and enjoy it or like the 300,000-1,000.000 before me you just leave and go play something else.

[Insufficient Skill]

*nvm*

Edited by Insufficient Skill, 19 January 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[Famous]

KahnWongFuChung, on 25 November 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

You are brain dead if you think your little solution here would help CW. We need a player base an order of magnitude greater than has every graced this game in order to split the queues. Consequences people. They are a thing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me tell you friend I have played PUG I have played in 2-8 man groups in CW and it was fun right up until we hit 12 man premade teams with there cheese builds and ROFL STOMP attitudes and the games lasted 90% of the time under 5 minutes total.

Is this there fault of the premade 12 mans? yes and no when I and others played pug vs pug or random groups 2-8/pugs vs groups 2-8 the games were fun and lasted a minimum of 10 minutes+ to me that's playing CW and MWO a fun enjoyable time with good mostly balanced teams.

Back in Closed Beta many players and groups tried to tell PGI that there CW game model was flawed did they listen? HELLL NO!! So now we have low game population and ROFL stomp game play in CW. Many tried to tell PGI build a private lobby system for Comp player let them play CW and private leagues rather than destroy the game with total stomps that was happening in the solo MM games and now in CW.

But PGI is slow to learn you would think after 3+ years the bulb would get brighter on solo and CW matchmaking but it has not with this stupid vote system-reporting system and with there attitude with CW I don't think the game will progress enough to attract new players to play and pay into a total ROFL CW situation with low meta tactics and no fun game play on steam.

But who knows russ and PGI might wake up to the fact you make the game for the pugs and casuals first then make it for the hardcore premade players in a environment that is challenging for them.

But enough Forum Warrior BS it makes no difference what any of us say you stay and pay play and enjoy it or like the 300,000-1,000.000 before me you just leave and go play something else.

What is the entire Quick Play section of the game for? Honestly you talk like you're a game dev, are you? I'm sick to death of people that know just enough about making a game to pontificate about "this is how it should be done" and insulting the devs. Seriously grow up. You come off as a whiny, spoiled brat. I've been here since September so I am one of these "new players" you claim to represent and you know what, I agree with the "evil premades" git gud or git out.

I can't speak about the closed beta or how it was before, but I'll tell you right now I've dropped over $200 since September and don't regret a bit of it. (Now how I spent my MC that's another story) I checked the forum, learned that CW was hard mode, and decided to not even bother with it until I had a decent drop deck. If you want to check me just go find the "CW Minimums" thread I created in New Player Help.

This is a niche game, there are other big stompy robot games out there, but not with this level of backstory. Why should CW be changed at all for PUG players? There is an entire section of this game specifically for PUGs. Hell PGI changed the name to "Quick Play" to reinforce that if all you want to do is shoot people then that's the button you click.

All I see in these complaints (and remember I'm one of the people you claim to be sticking up for) is "I want to get the rewards that team players get without committing the same amount of time and energy" and to that I say sod off. I've done Group Queue drops and they're nowhere near as fun as a CW drop on comms, win or lose. The first time I got a kill in CW I was thrilled because it representing getting better at the hardest section this game offers.

As I've said earlier in this thread put your bruised ego aside and you'll have a blast. If you can't do that at least stop claiming you're whining for the sake of new players, as one I don't need you crying for me, I'll just drop again and again and again until I can wreck face be it -MS- -SO- ISEN NKVA or whoever is across the field from me.

Edited by Famous, 25 November 2015 - 04:26 PM.

[vandalhooch]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Nope.

Then I'm not following your "solution." Are solos part of CW? Do solo groups fight in defense or attack of planets on the galaxy map? If not, then they aren't part of CW. If they do defend/attack planets, but never face organized teams then you don't have CW anymore. The taking of a planet from a faction should require the attackers defeat anyone and everyone who drops in defense of the planet whether they are grouped up or not.

[Insufficient Skill]

*nvm*

Edited by Insufficient Skill, 19 January 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[vandalhooch]

KahnWongFuChung, on 25 November 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

You are brain dead if you think your little solution here would help CW. We need a player base an order of magnitude greater than has every graced this game in order to split the queues. Consequences people. They are a thing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let me tell you friend I have played PUG I have played in 2-8 man groups in CW and it was fun right up until we hit 12 man premade teams with there cheese builds and ROFL STOMP attitudes and the games lasted 90% of the time under 5 minutes total.

BS. Even premiere teams can't blast through 48 mechs in under five minutes. If for no other reason than it takes time to move in position and cycle through all the dropships.

What you are probably referring to is the light rushes of early CW. Changes to how planet wedges are attacked and positioning/shielding of o-gens have largely removed that tactic.

Quote

Is this there fault of the premade 12 mans? yes and no when I and others played pug vs pug or random groups 2-8/pugs vs groups 2-8 the games were fun and lasted a minimum of 10 minutes+ to me that's playing CW and MWO a fun enjoyable time with good mostly balanced teams.

Two low skill (lots of PUGs) teams duking it out can be fun. That has nothing to do with the fact that some teams are highly skilled and all PUG teams have little chance against them. Make no mistake, those were battles between relatively poor CW teams.

Quote

Back in Closed Beta many players and groups tried to tell PGI that there CW game model was flawed did they listen? HELLL NO!! So now we have low game population and ROFL stomp game play in CW. Many tried to tell PGI build a private lobby system for Comp player let them play CW and private leagues rather than destroy the game with total stomps that was happening in the solo MM games and now in CW.

So you wanted groups to fight each other in CW and now you are complaining that groups keep winning in CW?

BTW: Human memory just doesn't work the way you think it does. You keep trying to describe everthing that was going on a few years ago as if your brain was a digital recorder of those events.

Quote

But PGI is slow to learn you would think after 3+ years the bulb would get brighter on solo and CW matchmaking but it has not with this stupid vote system-reporting system and with there attitude with CW I don't think the game will progress enough to attract new players to play and pay into a total ROFL CW situation with low meta tactics and no fun game play on steam.

You can't tell the difference between different issues and are conflating them all together. You hate PGI. Got it. Just means any claim you make about the past or present should be viewed by others with a healthy dose of skepticism.

Quote

But who knows russ and PGI might wake up to the fact you make the game for the pugs and casuals first then make it for the hardcore premade players in a environment that is challenging for them.

Sounds like you should go out and convince investors to back your own video game studio. You've clearly got a grasp on all the details that goes into running one.

Quote

But enough Forum Warrior BS it makes no difference what any of us say you stay and pay play and enjoy it or like the 300,000-1,000.000 before me you just leave and go play something else.

There's that made up number again. Why bother using facts when hyperbolic exaggeration can convince most idiots. People choosing to go play a variety of games over time is not unheard of for any game.

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 04:32 PM, said:

I'm sorry I am not able to explain it better so you can understand.

So much for your solution being "easy" like you originally claimed, huh?

[fbj]

I like bacon and popcorn.

[Leiska]

Bashfulsalamander, on 23 November 2015 - 01:28 PM, said:

Ok, so it does not take long to see a forum post that says CW is unbalanced due to PUGs VS. premades. Its rather sad really.... It may be hard for a few people to read the gameplay tips at the start of a match, but it does say to make friends and form groups. Team work= Victory! right? That does not mean you have to join a Unit.. it just means make friends, which I am sure most people are aware that the best way to do that is by talking. PGI has given the player many ways of talking ie: Text, VOIP, and even battle grid commands.

This is garbage, yet people keep posting the same thing over and over. No amount of making friends or organizing is going to let the average pugger beat most premades. Not even if they had a drop commander god with a wall hack would they stand a chance for the simple reason that premades almost exclusively contain players who are far above average in skill level and game knowledge. Premades don't win with coordination, they win primarily with raw piloting talent. The only exception to this I can think of is SWOL, who actually do use coordination to overcome weak piloting by calling forced pushes to generators when the pugs are showing too much resistance.

vandalhooch, on 25 November 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

Why have CW at all then? It would just be one more mode added to the other three. No need for a galaxy map. No need for factions. No need for unit tags.

This would be an improvement because currently the galaxy map does jack ****. If CW ever becomes a mode with more to it than isolated battles, I would be tempted to join a unit and organize. That is not the case, however.

W A R K H A N, on 25 November 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Lets be honest though it can get really frustrating when every game I put up around 2k damage even on the worst of stomps and like 8 players on the team are way below 1k. DC's...AFK's have a major impact as well...Trial mechs and loadouts inappropriate for the map / mode. New players, players who have no idea what they are doing...there is a lot of frustration to be found in CW puglandia. After a while these things will frustrate anyone. The complaints are just the symptoms.

As long as I get my loyalty points though. It will not disrupt my Chi

Yeah, this is pretty much how my CW goes. I might be slightly off, but I think I've lost around 12 CW games in a row now with highest damage on team in almost all of them, but I just can't win because every one of those games has been against premades of significant size. Normally that wouldn't be as annoying because it's to be expected, but trying to get the wins for these CW events becomes extremely difficult when your win rate is less than 10%.

For some reason no Clan puggers seem to be participating in the event. It wasn't this hard to find them in the past.

Edited by Leiska, 25 November 2015 - 06:45 PM.

[Aresye]

Insufficient Skill, on 25 November 2015 - 02:57 PM, said:

Of course they would not, because they are in their own, solo queue. Solos don't want to win planets for... for what? They want to play the game - so give them a queue of their own...

Excuse my saltiness, but if solo players don't care about fighting for planets, and they just want to play the game, then...

...WHY
THE
F***
ARE
THEY
PLAYING
CW?!

There's only three reasons a solo player would be playing CW:
1. They want the rewards.
2. They want to play a respawn-ish game mode on different maps.
3. They want to fight for planets.

For #1, the rewards are there to encourage teamwork in securing the objectives in order to take or defend a planet. Pugs shouldn't automatically receive higher CBill/XP payouts, CBill bonuses, and Loyalty Points, just for showing up and hoping for the best, caring nothing for the objectives and/or the CW map. In this sense (as harsh as it sounds), CW works pretty well to punish players looking to avoid the grind, and IMO is probably the main underlying factor for why threads like these exist. You said it yourself, "Solos don't care about winning planets," so why are they playing CW in the first place if they don't really want to play...CW?

For #2, this is on PGI. Different maps and game modes are great, and if solos want to play CW maps and/or modes in normal solo queue, then they need to push PGI to include these maps and modes in normal solo queue selection, where planets don't matter and the strict solo vs. solo matchmaking can exist. Of course, many maps like Boreal Vault are relatively unbalanced, so they likely won't work in the other queues anyway.

For #3, these are the solos who've stuck it out during non-event times. Maybe they like the challenge? Regardless, the types of solo players and their level of coordination is drastically different during non-event times. These are the players that are the reason solo players SHOULD be allowed to play CW. Perhaps they have family obligations, jobs, or other obstacles that prevent them from joining a unit, but they still want to play CW for the actual purpose of CW.

Methinks you and many others just want those sweet, sweet rewards, CBills, and LP bonuses, yet you don't want to put forth the effort to actually earn them. You don't care if you take terrible mechs, or refuse to work as a team. All you care is that your team wins the match so your meager 500 damage game nets you a decent payout and extra CBill/LP bonuses. You don't care that your sub-optimal performance contributes to your team's eventual loss, or how that loss likely took away a tick from another unit or team's hard-earned victory. You don't care if you lose the planet. Meanwhile, multiple units and teams that have been watching your match's progress painfully tick away during cease-fire, groan in disappointment when they see they don't take the planet.

A single player's performance can mean the difference between winning or losing a planet. A not very good player doing their best may cost the match and therefore the planet, but they did their best, and they walk away from the match with better knowledge, and strive to work more with the team in future matches.

Other players however, care nothing about teamwork, nor seek to improve. They show up to CW hoping to win the match so they can have fun doing their own thing, with no regard to their team, or CW as a whole. I personally enjoy stomping the ever loving crap out of these salty, dead weight players who have no business being in CW in the first place.

Want to play CW, win planets, and get bonuses for it? Get ready to face that planet's defenses/invading forces. If they're tougher, they're going to take the planet. Plain and simple.

Sincerely,
Aresye Kerensky, who just earlier played a solo CW match on his alt against a large, organized premade team, yet won by destroying Omega in the last minute of the game thanks to having a great team of solos who listened to VOIP, didn't throw away their mechs needlessly, didn't disconnect, and switched from focusing mechs to focusing objectives when the time was getting close to the end.

[Ghogiel]

Aresye Kerensky, on 26 November 2015 - 01:59 AM, said:

There's only three reasons a solo player would be playing CW:
1. They want the rewards.
2. They want to play a respawn-ish game mode on different maps.
3. They want to fight for planets.

There are more reasons...

Like getting to play in what amounts to T5 underhive games with my main account. No really, clubbing baby seals can be a nice break from time to time. Playing ****** mechs with no pressure lol.