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Cw Pugs Vs Organized


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#21 vandalhooch

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 07:18 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 28 November 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:


To be fair, depending on where you live here in the States, depends on what you are taught. If you are below the bible belt here, Read: The South, you are not taught Evolution in most schools, only creationism. Some locations it is ILLEGAL to talk of Evolution as a scientific premise.


Actually that's not true. Federal courts and the US Supreme Court have repeatedly ruled that banning evolution education in public schools is unconstitutional.

Now what actually goes on in many of those classrooms is another story, but nowhere in the US is it illegal to teach evolution as science.

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Just like how Republicans have made it ILLEGAL to have made the connection that Global Warming is man made.


Also not true. But some groups have worked awfully hard to make it seem like it might be illegal.

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How can you intelligently talk to people who actually think and believe that the Flintstones are historically accurate representation of human history?


While a clever line, the percentage of Americans who hold that view is actually pretty small. Creationism comes in many, many shades of grey.

#22 Krellshand

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 10:03 AM

Jesus you must have some time on your hand man..... sorry but this is TL:DR

I know you have your opinion, but its not THAT opinion, just ONE of thousands out there. I know you are a hotshot who wins pug battles alone and leads them to victory against organized you - well participate or NOt participate in? Anyway:

a) Premade vs Pugs helps no ones. No fun for either (except some braindamaged sealclubbers), scares away the pugs, hurts the playerbase

B) you cant force the players to play in a unit or participate in team battles. World of Tanks tried it 2014 and now has to fight declining player numbers. Gratz! Sold my account there on ebay

c) I see no reason not to integreate 2 or 3 planets on the peripherie where pirates (players without units) fight over the planet. I guess 99% of the players who are not in a unit dont care about the star map, invasion and suchs stuff. I know about it, read teh books - still dont care. So, there would be NO reason for the premades to drop there, because they cant own the planet, it does not give ANY kind of reward for owning a planet - its just a TRAININGGROUND for ppl to get into CW or just play around a bit in CW. Join a Faction and you have to go to the "normal" planets.
- Problem solved. Everyone can play everything, it is still more rewarding to play in a UNit (LP, Rewards for planets etc.) and if you participate, pug stomping may come your way

#23 vandalhooch

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 01:57 PM

View PostKrellshand, on 28 November 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

Jesus you must have some time on your hand man..... sorry but this is TL:DR

I know you have your opinion, but its not THAT opinion, just ONE of thousands out there.


Whether or not teaching evolution as science is illegal is not an opinion. It is a fact that the US Supreme Court and several Federal District Courts have ruled that such laws are unconstitutional.

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I know you are a hotshot who wins pug battles alone and leads them to victory against organized you - well participate or NOt participate in? Anyway:


Seriously? Your forumwarrior ego is as bruised as your mechwarrior ego now?

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a) Premade vs Pugs helps no ones. No fun for either (except some braindamaged sealclubbers), scares away the pugs, hurts the playerbase


I totally agreed on that point! You seriously are brain damaged. What I disagree with is your proposed solution to the problem. Your plan of having a split queue in CW won't work because it will destroy what CW is supposed to be and will still result in PUG groups getting stomped by organized, team players.

The solution needs to include an improved system for teaching players how to get better at teamwork. For players not interested in teamwork, then CW isn't and shouldn't be for you. You've already got your own complete mode.

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B) you cant force the players to play in a unit or participate in team battles. World of Tanks tried it 2014 and now has to fight declining player numbers. Gratz! Sold my account there on ebay


Yep. The lack of an immersive story in which players can impact the over arching storyline gets stale for most. That is exactly why CW needs to be more immersive in the world, not less.

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c) I see no reason not to integreate 2 or 3 planets on the peripherie where pirates (players without units) fight over the planet.


See. You went for the plan of excluding CW enthusiasts from participating in some portion of CW. That won't work. Alt accounts will be quickly created and the stomping of PUGs like you, who refuse to work as a team, will continue.

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I guess 99% of the players who are not in a unit dont care about the star map, invasion and suchs stuff.


Gonna need to see some sort of citation for that "fact." Based on the number of trial mechs I've faced in CW over the last several weeks, I'd say a large portion of those non-unit players are relatively new to the game as a whole. Seriously, I've been in drops where we cut through fields of LRM catapults, ML hunchbacks, and the lumbering king crabs.

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I know about it, read teh books - still dont care.


Fine. You aren't interested in an immersive game world. Why do you think your lack of care about that aspect of the game should require PGI destroy CW for those of us who are interested in it?

Ego much?

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So, there would be NO reason for the premades to drop there, because they cant own the planet, it does not give ANY kind of reward for owning a planet - its just a TRAININGGROUND for ppl to get into CW or just play around a bit in CW.


Destroying the immersive story element. Got it.

If you are arguing that aspects of CW be included in the Quick Play mode then I'm totally supportive. But if you want to purposely bring the Rambo Patrols to CW then just get bent.

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Join a Faction and you have to go to the "normal" planets.
- Problem solved. Everyone can play everything, it is still more rewarding to play in a UNit (LP, Rewards for planets etc.) and if you participate, pug stomping may come your way


"Have to go." You want to exclude players like me from some portion of the game. What do you think gives you the right to demand such an exclusionary development?

Glad to see that the entitled mindset isn't an exclusively american fault.

#24 Chados

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 02:25 PM

View PostWANTED, on 28 November 2015 - 05:23 AM, said:

Jeez. It's ok to hate CW but don't play and quit. One mech down hurts the team considerably. Hey, I get frustrated too with CW and the competitive teams stomping me over and over with PUGs and even some of us 12 man teams. It happens. I go down fighting even if they camp the spawn and don't complain. I'm back into CW again for the challenge and fighting some of the best. They won't split up CW queues and rightfully so Not enough players in the game to even do this.


He's right about this. I dislike CW very much. I find it the no-fun mode. The only reason I ever tick "faction play" is because my unit wants to run it, so on practice nights I put on my team-player hat and support my comrades, and play without complaining or acting derpy even though I hate it like poison. But when I'm just playing? I'd rather solo or group queue all the way, there's a lot more variety and the maps are much better. And in the Underhive where I live, I see unusual mechs and total weirdness you never see in group or CW, and I've also seen some of the best drop-callers I've ever worked with (P B R Streetgang, for example, is a hoot to run with). It's never the same game twice. In CW, it's the same game every drop, and you have to wait 20 minutes to drop to boot...and then you ghost drop against turrets or get waxed by the Clans drop after drop if you're attacking or counter attacking, because the maps are designed to give the advantages to the defense and the Clans are built for defensive play with their much-superior long-range and mid-range mechs blanketed by ECM. It's a myth that LRMs don't happen in CW. The Clans are *loaded* with them. IS not so much because of the ECM blanket on the other side. I've never participated in an IS attack or counterattack where we won over a Clan group, PuG or premades though I've been told that we have been successful on attack from time to time. On defense, on the other hand, I've been part of CW nights where we beat some pretty good Clan CW premades.

I think that's the problem, not premades v. PuGs. The maps favor defense, the factions are unbalanced, and the game mode lacks variety. But if that's what the high end players like vandal hooch dig, then more power to them, assuming that that is enough to sustain the rest of the game. You don't have to tick that "faction play" box. I simply opt out whenever possible. When I queue up with the guys, I know I'm in for major suck until I can gracefully bow out and run group or solo queue. It's my choice to take one for the team. At least it doesn't impact my stats and I'm going in knowing what I'm going to see. Which makes a good match-those happen about once in every 50 drops or so-all the better when they do happen. Hopefully phase 3 will bring something interesting to the mode.

Edited by Chados, 28 November 2015 - 02:26 PM.


#25 Kroete

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 04:26 PM

View Postvandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

While a clever line, the percentage of Americans who hold that view is actually pretty small. Creationism comes in many, many shades of grey.

16% of the americans believe in evolution, 78% believe in some form of creationism.
(The numbers are from 2010 http://www.heise.de/...en-2026859.html)

View Postvandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

"Have to go." You want to exclude players like me from some portion of the game. What do you think gives you the right to demand such an exclusionary development?

Like the groupqueue?
Or the development for a mode thats only for hardcore players and units?

It would be interesting if they would make a poll about this topic for every player, not only for the loud minority in the forum, best would be to include it in the client by opening a window after every patch.

Edited by Kroete, 28 November 2015 - 04:29 PM.


#26 Will Pike

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 04:46 PM

Why not make Pug matches in CW seek and destroy mode. Any war will have a mop up action after the main event. These matches would not contribute to the ownership of the planet but rather be either Clan or IS mopping up enemy forces on conquered planets. This way the pre made groups are still the ones deciding planetary control, but it also gives Pugs a chance to play CW style matches on CW maps.

#27 Xavier

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 05:29 PM

Just because you drop against groups or premades doesnt mean you cant win.....check this game out. we dropped against and 8 man of LAIO players.....the pugs on our side organized worked together and we won. Just because you drop solo against a premade does not mean you still cannot win
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#28 TyphonCh

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:10 PM

This is so ironic.
While reading this thread I decided to PUG a match in CW. Dropped against vanalhooch and his Unit on Taiga, and got stomped. As expected.
But what makes this even better, is that the OP was in our group that got rolled. Hahaha...

Edited by Team Chevy86, 28 November 2015 - 06:17 PM.


#29 vandalhooch

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Posted 28 November 2015 - 06:35 PM

View PostTeam Chevy86, on 28 November 2015 - 06:10 PM, said:

This is so ironic.
While reading this thread I decided to PUG a match in CW. Dropped against vanalhooch and his Unit on Taiga, and got stomped. As expected.
But what makes this even better, is that the OP was in our group that got rolled. Hahaha...

Seriously? My client crashed just as we launched so I didn't spend any time scanning through our opponent's names before the launch. Totally missed that the OP was there.

I'm sure that drop totally cured him of his saltiness . . . or not.

#30 Yozaa

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 02:13 AM

If you can't teamwork in CW, you probably can't team work in pug queue

Which means you will have a bad day

I've seen pugs out teamwork pre-mades, but mostly viva versa.

#31 Krellshand

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 03:46 AM

As said:

Premade:
Dropdecks made for cw. Nothing like a 12 Cheetah rush. ECM Blanekt etc etc.
TS: Coordination without typing, clear roles who calls the shots
No Afk/Disco

Sooo, if you actually LOSE as a premade, you really really suck. Seen it happen. But it is rare, and the players are usually pretty bad then. If you have even half a brain, you should win as a premade. I think inmy brief time with MS we did not lose one match against pugs. Still no fun

#32 Krellshand

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 03:59 AM

View Postvandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 06:35 PM, said:

Seriously? My client crashed just as we launched so I didn't spend any time scanning through our opponent's names before the launch. Totally missed that the OP was there.

I'm sure that drop totally cured him of his saltiness . . . or not.



See, that is exactly the reason why CW is so unpopular. Salty, sure - like in, it was a waste of time and it was clear as soon as we dropped. I am not in for wasted time, but looking at your CW rank you archieved and I guess the number of games you played in MWO, time is not an issue for you. Good for you - or not, depends, but is irrelevant.

Then the premades always act like it was something special they archived, like a pro Fighter beating up a child and boasting about it - seriously? I had preamdes apologize before and after the stomp because they knew it is not an equal matchup, and the stomp felt less salty. But ppl like you, that boast with sth like this are just sad. I could go on and speculate about real life deficits, but that would got to far, so the question ist - really? And it was your unit that acted like 12 year olds, but again I can not tell your age and that of your mates. Maybe they just acted true

#33 TWIAFU

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 04:31 AM

View Postvandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 07:18 AM, said:

Actually that's not true. Federal courts and the US Supreme Court have repeatedly ruled that banning evolution education in public schools is unconstitutional.

1 .Now what actually goes on in many of those classrooms is another story, but nowhere in the US is it illegal to teach evolution as science.



2. Also not true. But some groups have worked awfully hard to make it seem like it might be illegal.



3. While a clever line, the percentage of Americans who hold that view is actually pretty small. Creationism comes in many, many shades of grey.


1. I had it backwards. Creationism is illegal to teach by the Co, and the Reds want to violate it to teach religion in public schools.
https://whyevolution...ools-of-course/


2. My bad, not "illegal" just the words are banned from being used. http://www.theguardi...-climate-change

3. Pretty small?!?!? 40-42% of Americans is pretty small??!?
http://www.huffingto..._n_5434107.html

Thats nearly HALF of all Americans think that the Flintstones is historically accurate!

Now, you were saying?

#34 Shatara

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 05:40 AM

View PostKroete, on 28 November 2015 - 04:26 PM, said:

16% of the americans believe in evolution, 78% believe in some form of creationism.
(The numbers are from 2010 http://www.heise.de/...en-2026859.html)

Lol, that's gotta be something lost in translation, because at that rate Darwin would've been laughed out of the scientific community centuries ago. The only way those numbers could be remotely correct is if 'some form of creationism' is defined as "do you believe in God".

More credible numbers here:
https://en.wikipedia...t_for_evolution

#35 Commander A9

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 06:10 AM

Refer to this topic regarding Community Warfare's current state: http://mwomercs.com/...enough-whining/

Long-short of it, when you click "attack," you consent to fighting whoever is preparing to fight on said planet against you.

Be it pugs or 12-man, that's on you. Don't want to fight 12-mans? Fight on a planet which is currently not being occupied by a 12-man.

#36 Ihasa

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:11 AM

View PostSoldatushka, on 28 November 2015 - 04:01 AM, said:

I'am a solo gamer. Always i see preamade team in CW i push quit button. Its part of CW play. Its not what im worry abou. But should it work like ths?


Excellent. Enjoy your unscheduled vacation for being a deserter and traitor to your team!

#37 Ihasa

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 07:21 AM

View PostSoldatushka, on 28 November 2015 - 04:45 AM, said:

CW gives a little bit different game expirience, which is great. But whats a reason to suffer humiliation 15 minutes or so, its just waste of time. Unites are welcome. But against each other, which will be much fair.


Humiliation? Did you also get "upset" when you didn't receive your participation trophy for the sporting event you probably never played in? Or perhaps the gaming convention thought only blondes should get trophies and paraded you about and ridiculed you because you are not blonde? Please.

When one plays a game, one expects to win or lose. That outcome is predictable, normal and natural. If you are humiliated over something that occurs in the customary participation rituals of humanity, you have bigger issues than losing a game of imaginary robots played out in pixels on your monitor.

#38 vandalhooch

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 11:18 AM

View PostKrellshand, on 29 November 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:


See, that is exactly the reason why CW is so unpopular. Salty, sure - like in, it was a waste of time and it was clear as soon as we dropped. I am not in for wasted time, but looking at your CW rank you archieved and I guess the number of games you played in MWO, time is not an issue for you. Good for you - or not, depends, but is irrelevant.


1- Jade Falcon is only my second highest faction rank.

2- Yes, at some times of the year I have large chunks of time to spend playing video games.

3- As you noted, those facts are irrelevant.

4- You are perfectly capable of making that time "not wasted." Get on your faction's team speak hub and get an ad hoc group going. No need to join a unit.

5- You continually choose to ignore 4 and would rather whine for someone else to do something so that you could win more often.

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Then the premades always act like it was something special they archived, like a pro Fighter beating up a child and boasting about it - seriously?


Please point to a single thread were a premade (hate that term), boasts about beating a PUG group.

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I had preamdes apologize before and after the stomp because they knew it is not an equal matchup, and the stomp felt less salty. But ppl like you, that boast with sth like this are just sad.


You are a tool. My unit often apologizes to PUG groups when we see the line ups. My unit always gives our opponents a GG and thank you for dropping at the end of matches.

Pointing out why PUG groups lose is not boasting. Only entitled brats would see it that way.

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I could go on and speculate about real life deficits, but that would got to far, so the question ist - really?


Yeah because you've been so civil so far in this discussion . . . not.

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And it was your unit that acted like 12 year olds, but again I can not tell your age and that of your mates. Maybe they just acted true


Beating you was not acting like 12 year olds. And your insinuation that we are all very young is hilarious. You seem to have forgotten that I explained that my unit has existed in real life for almost twenty years.

#39 vandalhooch

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 11:29 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 29 November 2015 - 04:31 AM, said:


1. I had it backwards. Creationism is illegal to teach by the Co, and the Reds want to violate it to teach religion in public schools.
https://whyevolution...ools-of-course/


2. My bad, not "illegal" just the words are banned from being used. http://www.theguardi...-climate-change

3. Pretty small?!?!? 40-42% of Americans is pretty small??!?
http://www.huffingto..._n_5434107.html

Thats nearly HALF of all Americans think that the Flintstones is historically accurate!

Now, you were saying?


Just stop. You don't seem to know anything about the topic. Look again at your survey link. The respondents were not asked if humans and non-avian dinosaurs coexisted at some time in Earth's history. The percentage of Americans that respond positively when asked that question directly is much smaller than 40%.

#40 Ixiom

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Posted 29 November 2015 - 06:52 PM

View Postvandalhooch, on 28 November 2015 - 02:53 AM, said:

For the eighty billionth time, the point of CW is for different factions to try and take planets away from each other! If that doesn't sound like fun to you then CW isn't for you.


The point of any game is to be played.

If few people are playing it, then PGI is doing something wrong.

Unless you'd rather have it that way... have fun playing CW when the only people left playing it are 12-man groups.

Waiting all week to get together with your group just so you can ghost drop. Oooh!
Being unable to let your kid sit in your lap because he happily makes too much noise that would disrupt the teamspeak. Oooh!
Being unable to play quirky builds just for fun... because winning is what counts, right? If you don't, you're letting down your team. Oooh!

People already complain about wait times. Making CW impenetrable to PUGs will only make them worse. I generally don't play 'competitively' in any game, even though I like to aspire to a high level of skill myself.

Playing competitively can be a huge rush. Two teams full of players who know what they are doing removes the element of luck and can be a big challenge. However, this is not ideal for a competitive group in CW. What is ideal is a 48-0 sealclubbing, or even a ghost drop.

LOOK AT THIS AMAZING HIGH LEVEL GAMEPLAY.

Sometimes it sucks to be a pug. You have people on your team who are suicidal or just don't know how to work together.

But I would rather have that then a ghost drop or a glorified version of the academy shooting galleries.

Let the pugs play against pugs and the premades against premades. Of course, if an ideal match can't be made then some intermingling is fine.

My suggestion?
Keep SOS calls for specific planets.
Reduce the planet selection list to two buttons; Attack or Defend. This leads to a matchmaker. Groups will attack/defend planets that they have possession/gains of and will generally be paired with other groups. PUGs will be pitted against other PUGs if possible. But, of course, if no match can be made- PUGs will fight teams.

How could this work... I suppose it has to focus on groups first. If a group has a foothold on an unconquered planet, they click attack and this will prompt their opponent's defend que to prioritize groups to that planet's defense. If no group is available, the pugs come to its defense.

On the opposite side, if a group wants to defend their territory, the leader clicks defend. The matchmaker will look for any groups attacking their company's territory. If no one is threatening that company's territory, then they may be called to defend another planet they don't own... or even a friendly faction's (IS or Clan)

A concession to the groups may be to allow them to back out of a defense if they see that it isn't their territory. It's hard getting a bunch of players together so you might as well be attacking and seizing more territory for yourself rather than just helping a friendly company hold onto their own.

And pugs? Pugs fight pugs, unless a group is at risk for ghost dropping. The longer they've waited, the more likely the matchmaker pits groups vs pugs.

Anything is better than ghost drops. Anything is better than nobody playing the game mode at all.

Also, I didn't even read the rest of the thread but I'm glad I didn't.

It's devolved into such personal and irrelevant BS that I fear my actual examination of the problem has been tainted by it and will go unread by the devs or anyone with sense...





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