70 replies to this topic

[SovietArmada]

You know, you "pugs" could do a little searching to find TS servers that happily take people in to form groups. Seeing as your currently Steiner, you can hop by LCAF and we have CW groups rolling daily.

Please stop by, join a group, and feel better about yourself. There are plenty of factional TS servers that would gladly take in players to drop together with, each having several Drop Commanders so all you have to do is follow orders and do your best.

No one is forcing you to drop alone, the community is there, you have to find it, its not going to find you. And it's a very easy find. Literally a few keystrokes away.

[vandalhooch]

Ixiom, on 29 November 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

The point of any game is to be played.

Then why do we keep score?

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If few people are playing it, then PGI is doing something wrong.

Unless you'd rather have it that way... have fun playing CW when the only people left playing it are 12-man groups.

It's like you haven't actually followed the conversation. We'll just add your prediction to the massive pile of predictions of the past that were wrong so far.

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Waiting all week to get together with your group just so you can ghost drop. Oooh!

Almost never happens. The only ghost drops we get typically happens when cease fire occurs while we are in countdown mode.

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Being unable to let your kid sit in your lap because he happily makes too much noise that would disrupt the teamspeak. Oooh!
Being unable to play quirky builds just for fun... because winning is what counts, right? If you don't, you're letting down your team. Oooh!

We have lots and lots of drops were we level mechs or coordinate "joke" decks.

BTW: When exactly did society decide that winning = no fun?

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People already complain about wait times. Making CW impenetrable to PUGs will only make them worse. I generally don't play 'competitively' in any game, even though I like to aspire to a high level of skill myself.

How convenient. You disregard the only objective measure for determining the level of your skill at a competitive game. That is exactly we end up with so much entitled nonsense in the first place.

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Playing competitively can be a huge rush. Two teams full of players who know what they are doing removes the element of luck and can be a big challenge. However, this is not ideal for a competitive group in CW. What is ideal is a 48-0 sealclubbing, or even a ghost drop.

Nope. Nope. Nope. More importantly, you know that is a lie because you've seen others tell you it's a lie. But here you are, lying some more.

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LOOK AT THIS AMAZING HIGH LEVEL GAMEPLAY.

Sometimes it sucks to be a pug. You have people on your team who are suicidal or just don't know how to work together.

You know what might help those players increase their teamwork skills? Being part of a team.

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But I would rather have that then a ghost drop or a glorified version of the academy shooting galleries.

So would everyone else. Good thing no units are crying for there to be more terrible team players in Faction Play.

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Let the pugs play against pugs and the premades against premades.

It's called Quick Play and it already exists.

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Of course, if an ideal match can't be made then some intermingling is fine.

Why does faction warfare require "ideal" matches? What is an ideal match?

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My suggestion?
Keep SOS calls for specific planets.
Reduce the planet selection list to two buttons; Attack or Defend. This leads to a matchmaker. Groups will attack/defend planets that they have possession/gains of and will generally be paired with other groups. PUGs will be pitted against other PUGs if possible. But, of course, if no match can be made- PUGs will fight teams.

So your solution to any lengthy wait times is to implement a matchmaker on top of what we already have?

Do you really not see the idiocy of your "fix"?

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How could this work... I suppose it has to focus on groups first. If a group has a foothold on an unconquered planet, they click attack and this will prompt their opponent's defend que to prioritize groups to that planet's defense. If no group is available, the pugs come to its defense.

This is how it already works.

In the defense queues, complete groups slide to the front of the queue.

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On the opposite side, if a group wants to defend their territory, the leader clicks defend. The matchmaker will look for any groups attacking their company's territory. If no one is threatening that company's territory, then they may be called to defend another planet they don't own... or even a friendly faction's (IS or Clan)

This idea would reduce player choice in the game as well as angering some units that specifically avoid dropping on certain fronts because of loyalty in other factions. However, as an idea to decrease wait time, I'm not against a quick "all defends" queue.

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A concession to the groups may be to allow them to back out of a defense if they see that it isn't their territory. It's hard getting a bunch of players together so you might as well be attacking and seizing more territory for yourself rather than just helping a friendly company hold onto their own.

This is part of the reason you see so many mismatches. Complete or near complete groups go on attack while PUGs usually defend because defenses can be drawn from multiple factions (the skittle effect.)

I think removing the option for all IS to defend any IS planet from clans or any clan ear to defend all clans from any IS would help reduce the frequency of mismatches. The problem is that some factions don't start with clan borders because of lore. I wouldn't mind a lore breaking change of moving two of the clans to the opposite side of the IS factions giving every faction at least one border. Then, no more skittles.

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And pugs? Pugs fight pugs, unless a group is at risk for ghost dropping. The longer they've waited, the more likely the matchmaker pits groups vs pugs.

So your plan is exactly like first come first served ( which we have now) coupled with an additional time delay? No thanks.

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Anything is better than ghost drops. Anything is better than nobody playing the game mode at all.

Also, I didn't even read the rest of the thread but I'm glad I didn't.

Doesn't matter. You managed to trot out the exact same, tired, refuted nonsense as all the other whiners.

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It's devolved into such personal and irrelevant BS that I fear my actual examination of the problem has been tainted by it and will go unread by the devs or anyone with sense...

Phase 3 in early 2016. We'll see then.

[John Gun]

Let me tell you a short story of someone playing MWO and thus for CW only since a couple of month.

When i started in CW as a Pug it wasn't very good, it wasn't that much fun.
Maybe a kill ot two and roughly about 300-400 dmg on a good day.

It started to change when i was introduced into a group of Steiner players from different Steiner Units and later when i was invited into one of the Units of wich players were participating in that group.

I'm still no killer like some other ppl, but i mostly go out of a match with 4-6 kills and 1000-1200 dmg average.

The thing is, CW is about teamplay more so then other game modes, so you should be a teamplayer if you want to play CW.
There is Voip, thats not the best way for sure but i had some matches were we used it and even a pug of 12 teamplayers could at least give a partialy premade some good fights if not a bloody nose.

There are Ts servers open for everyone, so why not use them, even as a Pug to look for a team.
Thats not much more timeconsuming then just hopping into a match alone but might give you a much better game.

And then there are units, well i think theres a type of units for everyone, the one i'm in isn't too much of a competative unit, there is no one in there forcing me to be online every day or to have me attend to training 3-4 days a week and still when we drop in cw we can even give other premades some rough times. Sure there are Units out there that will allways give us a beating, but so what, thats the best training you can get. fighting a real experienced premade that is.
And even then its more fun then clubbing a Pug.

Long story short, be a teamplayer and it will getter a lot more fun, there are plenty of ways even with out joining a unit, you just have to want to.

[Ihasa]

John Gun, on 29 November 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

Let me tell you a short story of someone playing MWO and thus for CW only since a couple of month.

When i started in CW as a Pug it wasn't very good, it wasn't that much fun.
Maybe a kill ot two and roughly about 300-400 dmg on a good day.

It started to change when i was introduced into a group of Steiner players from different Steiner Units and later when i was invited into one of the Units of wich players were participating in that group.

I'm still no killer like some other ppl, but i mostly go out of a match with 4-6 kills and 1000-1200 dmg average.

The thing is, CW is about teamplay more so then other game modes, so you should be a teamplayer if you want to play CW.
There is Voip, thats not the best way for sure but i had some matches were we used it and even a pug of 12 teamplayers could at least give a partialy premade some good fights if not a bloody nose.

There are Ts servers open for everyone, so why not use them, even as a Pug to look for a team.
Thats not much more timeconsuming then just hopping into a match alone but might give you a much better game.

And then there are units, well i think theres a type of units for everyone, the one i'm in isn't too much of a competative unit, there is no one in there forcing me to be online every day or to have me attend to training 3-4 days a week and still when we drop in cw we can even give other premades some rough times. Sure there are Units out there that will allways give us a beating, but so what, thats the best training you can get. fighting a real experienced premade that is.
And even then its more fun then clubbing a Pug.

Long story short, be a teamplayer and it will getter a lot more fun, there are plenty of ways even with out joining a unit, you just have to want to.

John that's a great story and it's great your experience is good. But you know what? Some people don't want to be challenged, nor to rise to any occasion or participate in any sort of community or heaven forbid be a part of something bigger than themselves.

What they do want is to have things their way. Just show up and get handed the wins. They want to fight mindless, predictable 3rd grade level PVE so that this easy win can be given to them. Not accomplished, see, given. The loner wolves want it all for them their way the easiest way possible with the least amount of human contact possible because they don't know how to get along with anybody else except themselves, and doing that is even a stretch.

Winning is too hard, it is also not rewarding enough because they have to achieve it, strive for it. None of them want anything to do with any of that. It's too inconvenient, a couple minutes is too time consuming and interacting with others is soul stealing. Such is the way of the entitled loner wolf in MWO, several degrees more severe than probably any other game out there.

[Krellshand]

SovietArmada, on 29 November 2015 - 07:15 PM, said:

You know, you "pugs" could do a little searching to find TS servers that happily take people in to form groups. Seeing as your currently Steiner, you can hop by LCAF and we have CW groups rolling daily.

Please stop by, join a group, and feel better about yourself. There are plenty of factional TS servers that would gladly take in players to drop together with, each having several Drop Commanders so all you have to do is follow orders and do your best.

No one is forcing you to drop alone, the community is there, you have to find it, its not going to find you. And it's a very easy find. Literally a few keystrokes away.

I do appreciate the offer, but as stated many time, I dont WANT to join a unit, ts server, voip or anything of that kind. I had joined two units and its just not my cup of tea, If it is yours, go for it, but please understand that there are a LOT of people who choose not to participate in any unit or organized team, and never will. They will leave the game before beeing foced to do so, thats what cost WoT a lot of players since 2014.

And, to a certain degree, I am willing to pay the price for that choice. But I am not willing to be slaughtered

But, consider this, IF this would be meant to only be played in a group, why not lock it up for solo players? And why is Russ triying to sucker in even more solos in his vlog?

Ihasa, on 29 November 2015 - 09:59 PM, said:

John that's a great story and it's great your experience is good. But you know what? Some people don't want to be challenged, nor to rise to any occasion or participate in any sort of community or heaven forbid be a part of something bigger than themselves.

What they do want is to have things their way. Just show up and get handed the wins. They want to fight mindless, predictable 3rd grade level PVE so that this easy win can be given to them. Not accomplished, see, given. The loner wolves want it all for them their way the easiest way possible with the least amount of human contact possible because they don't know how to get along with anybody else except themselves, and doing that is even a stretch.

Winning is too hard, it is also not rewarding enough because they have to achieve it, strive for it. None of them want anything to do with any of that. It's too inconvenient, a couple minutes is too time consuming and interacting with others is soul stealing. Such is the way of the entitled loner wolf in MWO, several degrees more severe than probably any other game out there.

Well, I always find it astonishing how ppl like THINK they can predict what ppl like me want. But, lets just say you talk utter ********, and wish it where true. And how do you, as a competetiv unit player, even WANT to fight pugs in the first place? No "challenge", no "honor" etc. Or are you scared you might have to try to earn the victory? If not, see question 1?
You Sealclubbers are unbelievable hipocrits

I am already way better than John (no bad feelings) because I opt out between 1500 (bad day) and more likely 2000-2500 damage, or more if I play clan (suits me more) and I win more than I lose on CW, unless its against premade - And I dont mind losing against pugs in any way. I will GG and congratulate politly, then opt out

I am Nova Commander, and four times rank4 or higher, so I played SOME time in CW

And I know how I easily could improve more:
1) Only use mastered mechs, not stock XP ones
2) Equip mech and weapon modules
3) Make tailormade Dropdecks for each map

That alone should boost my number by a bit, but I have other goals (leveling the mechs, saving cbills etc,) and I know that hurts my performance, and I am more than content losing an even fight.

But premade vs pugs is not an even fight (yes yes, I have won those too,,,, but lets not keep pretending you could win as much as 20% of you fights against premades)

And fighting an UNFAIR fight is whats pissing me off. You gain nothing, you learn nothing. And you lose interest in a very interesting game mode.Right now there are less than 250ppl playing CW ob planets I can see. And the event is stil running....

Edited by Krellshand, 30 November 2015 - 04:18 AM.

[Black Ivan]

Well said Krellshand, I 100% can agree with your statement
.

The PUG VS CW crowd argument won't go away anyway. Wait until MWO will hit Steam.

Edited by Black Ivan, 30 November 2015 - 03:58 AM.

[Mordin Ashe]

I am mostly solo CW player. I have no issues with meeting organized 12mans when playing with 11 other random people and still scoring well, sometimes even come out victorious. I know it can be discouraging and sometimes you get simply outplayed but being at the end of food chain can teach you more about tactics and what to do in battle than anything else. You say that being slaughtered teaches you nothing but I feel the other thing is true. Only coordinated and pro players will show you the best sniping spots on maps, only skilled players know what route to choose even on difficult maps like Boreal.

Yes, loosing sucks, but even in such situation you can still rack up rewards, do a lot of damage and leave battle with 600k+ c-bills and 1500 LPs.

EDIT: Another thing is that CW is very specific environment where very specific people live. I know four or five people who are absolute reapers and they only play CW. With their level of skill even people who don't generally do that many mistakes get reduced to meaningless numbers on their kill counts. I haven't seen this happening much in solo drops, perhaps because the community there is larger and such people don't stand out that much.

Still, there are absolute murderers and they are after you. Being outplayed by them feels very unplesant, but it teaches you a lot if you observe them a bit.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 30 November 2015 - 05:22 AM.

[Krellshand]

So, how does getting spawncamped and diying after the frist wave after getting dropped out of the ship let me rake up damage or teach me sth?

If we go in the ring and I knock you out in 30 seconds, you will have learned nothing. If we battle for 15 minutes, THAN you will have learned sth.

As statet a BILLION times - nothing against an honest loss. No love for slaughter

And as far as I can recall your were with CGBI quite some time....

Edited by Krellshand, 30 November 2015 - 05:21 AM.

[Galenit]

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

And fighting an UNFAIR fight is whats pissing me off. You gain nothing, you learn nothing. And you lose interest in a very interesting game mode.Right now there are less than 250ppl playing CW ob planets I can see. And the event is stil running....

I play in my spartetime for fun and relaxing.If its not fun, i do something other.
The numbers show thats not only me.
Maybe some should get an rl or grow up and find out that gaming dont play the bills or helps getting the chicks.

Edited by Galenit, 30 November 2015 - 05:32 AM.

[Freeman 52]

I have to say I can relate to the OP in some ways. I have experienced CW with TS-coordinated groups from my unit (more often 2 to 6 people, only very rarely 10 or 12), as well as solo as a pug. Why would I solo CW? Two reasons:

• Matches are longer and more interesting than quick play, and there are loyalty rewards to be earned - it can be a more involving game mode than conquest/skirmish/assault.
  
• Unit mates may not be available when I am available, or may not want to play CW.

I don't mind playing against 12-man teams every once in a while. Not all of those matches end in stomps, and it is a fun challenge to see how many kills or how much damage you can get against all odds. But I have really enjoyed pug vs pug action in CW, with all its limitations in terms of drop deck coordination and in-game communication. In fact, my most exciting CW matches have been pug vs pug.

I would like to believe there is room for both kinds of experience in CW: 12 vs 12 and pug vs pug, even if we all should encourage people to join units as part of the overall MWO experience. Having pug-only planets could be a way to go for people who may not have the chance to form a big CW group on the spot. Either way, do not hate on pugs playing CW - as someone has said, it is called "faction play", not "unit play".

[Tom Sawyer]

Galenit, on 30 November 2015 - 05:22 AM, said:

I play in my spartetime for fun and relaxing.If its not fun, i do something other.
The numbers show thats not only me.
Maybe some should get an rl or grow up and find out that gaming dont play the bills or helps getting the chicks.

Depends on the country to be honest. In South Korea for instance there are some serious hard core gamers who do game for a living and often live quite well. And the chicks well these uber gamers are in demand lol.

But here in the USA I will agree. I game for fun. And CW is my favorite part of MWO. I drop with my unit and enjoy it. Most of us do not enjoy pug stomps but we face what we get. Those that rage quit, or say GG when they see a 12 man facing them just make me shake my head. Everyone has the option to use TS, join a unit, ect ect. Now if PGI wants to create a special playground for solo dropping, wait a minute, QUICK GAME anyone >.>

[Colonel ONeill]

I dont know what your problem with premades is...
I am crushing a lot of premades. Sure, you need some guys who can aim and did not drop in their funny LRM assault mechs... but most premades are easy to beat. A lot of good players just play in small groups (max 4-6).
But a lot of people think CW is the gamemode:
- to level mechs...
- where LRM mechs are a great idea (sure they stay in the back)...
- ohh 12-man on the other side? CHAAAAARGE!!! perma-dead after 3min
- where trialmechs/stockmechs should be medatory for everyone
- where hot builds belong to vitric
- brawlers should be played on boreal
- clans are OP (they have more range...)
- IS always loses
- I am a sniper, I have to stay at spawn
- we are defending! dont leave omega alone! And what is this counter-attack you talking about?
- get rid of the lights in the 1st wave
- the one that scores worst should take lead
-...

usually these guys cant even get 200dmg in a mech and just feed the enemy with kills...

[Krellshand]

So, and I get usually around 2k or more. And I am still not happy with cw. All the points you statet dont fit me, and most people I meet.


So, where is the problem to open a solo queue planet in CW, so you cater for the entire playerbase and not just 5-10%, who cant keep your game alive alone anyway?

Edited by Krellshand, 30 November 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[Yozaa]

If your getting 2000 a match against pre-mades, and if a pug planet becomes available, I guess you will be clubbing pugs.
But thats OK , cuz your a pug. Right?
Then other pugs will demand a match maker because they dont like being clubbed by a Uberpug, which the game population can not support because of its size.

And the Circle goes round and around.

When Steam comes around that may change.


Circle goes round and around.

[Ihasa]

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

Well, I always find it astonishing how ppl like THINK they can predict what ppl like me want. But, lets just say you talk utter ********, and wish it where true. And how do you, as a competetiv unit player, even WANT to fight pugs in the first place? No "challenge", no "honor" etc. Or are you scared you might have to try to earn the victory? If not, see question 1?
You Sealclubbers are unbelievable hipocrits

....
But premade vs pugs is not an even fight (yes yes, I have won those too,,,, but lets not keep pretending you could win as much as 20% of you fights against premades)

My CW participation is extremely low for this very reason, it's monotonous to continuously fight skittle groups and the only time it's challenging is when there is a large-ish group on the other side (8+). I turned my attention toward more competitive league play again. So have many others in my unit. When I do play CW, I tend to do it with a smaller group so that there is in fact a challenge and some satisfaction from the win. Nothing is worth doing if it's not satisfying. But damn too many pugs and it gets beyond frustrating dealing with 5+ LRM assaults, all flamer mediums and none of them having my back save the couple people I dropped with. I'd rather have my teeth pulled.

So no, I don't want to continuously fight pugs because it's not satisfying either nor are there many learning instances presented unless it's from a fellow teammate about positioning or some such. And this is coming from probably the lowest ranked player in the unit (me). You yourself would probably wreck me in a 1v1, but you know what? That's okay because this is a team game, not a Roman Coliseum. I give my best for my team always, because that's satisfying. Being part of something bigger than myself is satisfying too, and that's what I will continue to do.

[Krellshand]

Yozaa, on 30 November 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

If your getting 2000 a match against pre-mades, and if a pug planet becomes available, I guess you will be clubbing pugs.
But thats OK , cuz your a pug. Right?
Then other pugs will demand a match maker because they dont like being clubbed by a Uberpug, which the game population can not support because of its size.

And the Circle goes round and around.

When Steam comes around that may change.


Circle goes round and around.

Read my text again.

Then ask yourself why I should make a statement against pugs vs premades if I do 2k damage against them each game

Think

Think some more

?????

No more questions your honor.

You are disqualified for any further discussion

Ihasa, on 30 November 2015 - 11:02 AM, said:

My CW participation is extremely low for this very reason, it's monotonous to continuously fight skittle groups and the only time it's challenging is when there is a large-ish group on the other side (8+). I turned my attention toward more competitive league play again. So have many others in my unit. When I do play CW, I tend to do it with a smaller group so that there is in fact a challenge and some satisfaction from the win. Nothing is worth doing if it's not satisfying. But damn too many pugs and it gets beyond frustrating dealing with 5+ LRM assaults, all flamer mediums and none of them having my back save the couple people I dropped with. I'd rather have my teeth pulled.

So no, I don't want to continuously fight pugs because it's not satisfying either nor are there many learning instances presented unless it's from a fellow teammate about positioning or some such. And this is coming from probably the lowest ranked player in the unit (me). You yourself would probably wreck me in a 1v1, but you know what? That's okay because this is a team game, not a Roman Coliseum. I give my best for my team always, because that's satisfying. Being part of something bigger than myself is satisfying too, and that's what I will continue to do.

I see you point.

But I am a solo player. I never did team sports. Only swimming and combat sports, winning medals in both.

There are ppl like you, who like to play in a team, and ppl like me who light to fight for themselfs.

And I guees my solution would be mre statisfying for you group than the current state

[TheSilken]

What it's like having pugs on your team vs competent players:

https://youtu.be/ljwMDoDCqH4?t=1m45s

Edited by TheSilken, 30 November 2015 - 02:27 PM.

[Chocowolf Sradac]

I understand the frustrations trying to pug in community warfare. It is a long issue not only in MWO that people grouped up as a team will have the advantage then solo pug players. The game focuses on team work to truly be successful. Granted there is times you will find the lucky team that will contend and even beat the organized teams but there is a reason why grouping up, getting into a TS, dropping as a group is more successful then solo dropping. Even if PGI made solo player only planets that will only encourage players to "sync drop" which in turn doesn't solve the problem

I do dare say if working as a team isn't your thing there are a number of solo player games out there that you can find enjoyment in that you don't have to worry about what your team is doing. For me I like flying solo in Elite:dangerous (currently on sale) when I want to play alone for a bit when I have my frustrations with MWO.

There are quite a few TS hubs out there for MWO to log onto and form teams without having to join a unit. I know Steiner has afew hubs you can join to find pugs to group up with and drop together. There are also quite a number of different units within Steiner so you can find one that fits you and the people you want to play with

Edited by Chocowolf, 30 November 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[sycocys]

I didn't like raids in WoW - so I ran around Barrens killing people and making Chuck Norris jokes.

I don't particularly like CW so I drop in standard mode and quote Spaceballs.

[Yozaa]

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Read my text again.
Then ask yourself why I should make a statement against pugs vs premades if I do 2k damage against them each game
Think
Think some more
?????
No more questions your honor.
You are disqualified for any further discussion

Fantastic answer!
I fully understand now.
Since you can not give a logical answer you resort to TRYING to make fun of others who don't agree with you.

So why don't you answer, what should PGI do when PUG's complain they are being clubbed by uberpugs in the CW pug queue.

Krellshand, on 30 November 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

I see you point.
But I am a solo player. I never did team sports. Only swimming and combat sports, winning medals in both.
There are ppl like you, who like to play in a team, and ppl like me who light to fight for themselfs.
And I guees my solution would be mre statisfying for you group than the current state

You fight for yourself, Solo player who never did team sports.
What more is their to say.
So your a selfish whiner
Good for you.

Keep Trolling on

Edited by Yozaa, 30 November 2015 - 09:07 PM.