100 replies to this topic

[GZBLASTERMASTER]

Let's let this crybaby ECM range nerf experiment die on the PTS. Seriously, ECM is exclusive to certain variants in only certain chassis, they are already governed in other areas and need to play a support role for lance/star mates. I agree with the lock on duration experiment when in range, but now it seems that cutting the range impedes on the scout visual confirmation role and the occupational risk at a well placed UAV delivery. Now we're going to Playskool this too? No No No No. Even if we're trying for high player retention, I remember clearly this being touted as "a thinking man's shooter" among other things used to reel in a target audience, now you want us to play flag football.
Trash the range nerf please, disabling with current tactics and methods already in place is more than fair enough(???)

[Kraftwerkedup]

No.

Your magic Jesus box is no moar.

[Lostdragon]

ECM in its current implementation is the most powerful 1 or 1.5 tons of equipment you can put on a mech. It is just too good currently, I think the nerfs bring it more in line with where it should be.

Edited by Lostdragon, 15 October 2015 - 06:32 AM.

[GZBLASTERMASTER]

Kraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

No.

Your magic Jesus box is no moar.

Moar...

Lostdragon, on 14 October 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

ECM in its current implementation is the most powerful 1 or 1.5 tons of equipment you can put on a mech. It is just too good currently, I think the nerds bring it more in line with where it should be.

50%?!?!? Seems like they're ready to sell MWO CapriSun cases at the local Walmart now, Catapult Blast and Atlas Avalanache, nah 50% is a bit much. I can't imagine real world countermeasures being limited so much without immediate interference from adversaries in some way. It's 3050+ now, if anything, they need to add a satellite imagery module.

[SkyHammyr]

LOLNo.

ECM changes were needed and these are great.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Stop.

I run a lot of ECM (on 3 ACHs, 3 SHCs, a RVN-3L, etc.), and I've been looking forward to the ECM nerf. I also do a LOT of scouting, and the current ECM implementation makes that useless in PUG play. Even in group queue, now that there are heavier ECM mechs (HBR, GRF, CTF chassis all have ECM variants), you're a nobody if you build for recon.

Nah, man. I want my recon efforts to matter. I welcome the ECM nerf with open f-ing arms.

[BigBucket]

Battetech ECM was intended to be the counter for NARC, Artemis, etc. and not the other way around. It also only covered the equipped mech. This is a good change for the game in my opinion.

[Pjwned]

The radius should actually be 0 for G-ECM and its effect is arguably still too powerful, so having it be 90m is still a pretty good deal if you're an ECM crutch baby.

Edited by Pjwned, 14 October 2015 - 06:13 PM.

[Mystere]

I'm going to be the contrarian to the alleged prevailing opinion and dare say that I like ECM as it is today just fine. The nerf is nothing but a weak-kneed response to incessant and loud whining. PGI once again succumbed and surrendered while being on their hands and knees.

That's a shame because ...

I like that killing the enemy ECM carrier needs to become priority #1 and that that job is made much more difficult as the number of ECMs carried by the enemy increases.

I like that the onus is on the ECM deficient side to neutralize the enemy's advantage.

And finally, I like hunting and killing ECM carriers.

Edited by Mystere, 14 October 2015 - 06:19 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm going to be the contrarian to the alleged prevailing opinion and dare say that I like ECM as it is today just fine. The nerf is nothing but a weak-kneed response to incessant and loud whining. PGI once again succumbed and surrendered while being on their hands and knees.

That's a shame because ...

I like that killing the enemy ECM carrier needs to become priority #1 and that that job is made much more difficult as the number of ECMs carried by the enemy increases.

I like that the onus is on the ECM deficient side to neutralize the enemy's advantage.

And finally, I like hunting and killing ECM carriers.

and as the MM doesnt take ECM into Account that means that one team could get a Huge Advantage,
also LRMs are in a Bad Place right now, as if ECM is in a Match LRMs are useless,
this ECM change will allow LRMs to be an Actual MWO Weapon again,

[Mystere]

Andi Nagasia, on 14 October 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

and as the MM doesnt take ECM into Account that means that one team could get a Huge Advantage,

As I said in my post, I actually liked that. It's a chance to go up against difficult odds, and none of this "both teams should be equally matched" bullcrap that has caused PGI to waste a whole lot of time, effort, and other limited resources on several matchmakers, only to end up with a pseudo-epeen measuring system that has giant release valves anyway.

Andi Nagasia, on 14 October 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

also LRMs are in a Bad Place right now, as if ECM is in a Match LRMs are useless,
this ECM change will allow LRMs to be an Actual MWO Weapon again,

ECM is now next to useless. Targetting ECM mechs is now instant. Unless you're using LRMs and SSRMs, there is no need for countermeasures or for better usage of your very own Mark 1 eyeballs. The Red Dorito is now the undisputed king.

Prepare for more Clan Streaks and LRM downpours. I hope people are ready for them. Also expect single digit light percentages in the queue.

The last change that will seal the deal for me is making 3/3/3/3 a hard requirement with absolutely no release valves. Prepare to wait for long periods of time until someone dares to bring out a light.

Edited by Mystere, 14 October 2015 - 06:48 PM.

[shopsmart]

Have to agree that ecm is going to be flushed in meta with these changes. But I am use to non ecm lights and do ok. What will end up happening is most likely ecm will be removed and the free tonnage put to more heat sink or pew pew.

[sycocys]

The 50% range on ecm is also very likely only going to be its equipment stat - quite likely heavier mechs will get either a little range boost on it or longer protection. Possibly both.

What you are seeing is a spot where its going to be in the middle of its new effect - because its even possible that well off speedy mechs will get less range or less lock protection.

Either way - no more magic box that instantly protect the entire team. Open door for Angel ECM and Null Sig to be added in the future which would give players more options but no overtly broken gear.

[Davers]

GZBLASTERMASTER, on 14 October 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Moar...



50%?!?!? Seems like they're ready to sell MWO CapriSun cases at the local Walmart now, Catapult Blast and Atlas Avalanache, nah 50% is a bit much. I can't imagine real world countermeasures being limited so much without immediate interference from adversaries in some way. It's 3050+ now, if anything, they need to add a satellite imagery module.

This is Battletech, where a machine gun weighing half a ton cannot even shoot across a football field. Let's not bring reality into this.

I am fine with seeing how a greatly reduced range and delayed targeting instead of hard counter works out.

[Livewyr]

Going full disagreement.

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I'm going to be the contrarian to the alleged prevailing opinion and dare say that I like ECM as it is today just fine. The nerf is nothing but a weak-kneed response to incessant and loud whining. PGI once again succumbed and surrendered while being on their hands and knees.

That's a shame because ...

Weak knees? It only took them 3 years. (December 4, 2012 was a dark, dark day.)

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I like that killing the enemy ECM carrier needs to become priority #1 and that that job is made much more difficult as the number of ECMs carried by the enemy increases.

It still is. With weapon hit notification and missile (and now *laser* effectiveness) tied to locking targets, which is hampered by ECM, it is still imperative that you destroy the ECM mech.

Now it just means I can load some support LRMs on a mech and not have them be dead weight most of the time. (nor do I have to carry more weight in counter gear than the ECM, just to use them at all.)

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

I like that the onus is on the ECM deficient side to neutralize the enemy's advantage.

I don't know how you could be any more wrong when it comes to balance.
Balance is give and take. Benefit and Sacrifice. ("Balancing the scales") ECM was all Benefit, no Sacrifice.

Live ECM: Terrible, Terrible, Terrible Concept for a PvP game. (PvE- all bets are off as you are the hero and the fun of other people is not related to how overpowered your avatar is.)

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

And finally, I like hunting and killing ECM carriers.

Very good. Continue to do that. We (on your team) appreciate that greatly, and will continue to.

[SkyHammyr]

After playing these changes and reflecting on my experience.
The hit to ECM might be a little heavy handed.

While ECM does need a change. I think now that you can target anything under ECM, the range nerf probably isn't necessary. I would perhaps give it the full range and increase the missile lock timer from 3sec to 5sec.

Here's why:
LRMs made a big comeback tonight and I have a real concern that, should this ECM change go live, we're going to have a strong resurgence of that weapon system. I'm not saying LRMs couldn't do with some fine tuning and maybe a little help. But you don't want a LuRMpocolypse all over again. Alpine was LuRMpocolopse tonight, watch Sean Lang's Twitch of tonight frivolity of you don't believe me.

ECM needs to be looked at, but maybe not so hard.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

ECM is now next to useless. Targetting ECM mechs is now instant.

A 3 second target delay is hardly instant, and I hope you remember that the base target delay for all mechs is set to 0 right now on the PTS, and it's not going to stay that way meaning the total target delay will be even higher in the end.

ECM isn't useless just because it's not going to be a jesus box, FFS this sort of complaining just makes me annoyed.

Quote

Unless you're using LRMs and SSRMs, there is no need for countermeasures or for better usage of your very own Mark 1 eyeballs. The Red Dorito is now the undisputed king.

I guess if you ignore every other change to information warfare, then yeah that would be accurate.

Quote

Prepare for more Clan Streaks and LRM downpours. I hope people are ready for them. Also expect single digit light percentages in the queue.

Are you really going to cry about ECM being nerfed because of streaks and LRMs not being hot garbage? They're still not even that good with ECM as good as it is (even with the current nerfs) on top of the weapons themselves not being that good, and in addition to that you have NO EXCUSE to not equip AMS, but the problem is guided missiles actually being used at all?

I don't think it gives you much credibility to complain about ECM nerfs because of too many LRMs & SSRMs (correct me if I'm wrong here) when the answer to that is to bring AMS if you can't already handle playing against those weapons (i.e taking proper cover and not suicide rushing a streak boat with your Locust) without an ECM crutch.

Quote

The last change that will seal the deal for me is making 3/3/3/3 a hard requirement with absolutely no release valves. Prepare to wait for long periods of time until someone dares to bring out a light.

This I agree with however, 3/3/3/3 is crap but I'm optimistic since PGI seemed to indicate they want to move away from weight class restrictions for the group queue.

SkyHammr, on 14 October 2015 - 09:25 PM, said:

After playing these changes and reflecting on my experience.
The hit to ECM might be a little heavy handed.

While ECM does need a change. I think now that you can target anything under ECM, the range nerf probably isn't necessary. I would perhaps give it the full range and increase the missile lock timer from 3sec to 5sec.

Here's why:
LRMs made a big comeback tonight and I have a real concern that, should this ECM change go live, we're going to have a strong resurgence of that weapon system. I'm not saying LRMs couldn't do with some fine tuning and maybe a little help. But you don't want a LuRMpocolypse all over again. Alpine was LuRMpocolopse tonight, watch Sean Lang's Twitch of tonight frivolity of you don't believe me.

ECM needs to be looked at, but maybe not so hard.

It's almost as if AMS should be the primary counter to missile-based weapon systems.

Holy crap, who would've thought?

Edited by Pjwned, 14 October 2015 - 10:21 PM.

[SkyHammyr]

Quote

It's almost as if AMS should be the primary counter to missile-based weapon systems.

Holy crap, who would've thought?

Radar Dep, actually.
I started putting it on my ECM mechs now.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

So, AMS is making a comeback? Cool. Now NO ONE CAN HIDE FROM ME! <evil_laugh></evil_laugh>

Or both. Radar derp and AMS and ECM. Go nuts, man! Grab the dual-AMS LCT-3M, and remember to lock those targets for counterbattery fires!

I welcome the return of the Lurmpocalypse! More spotting bonuses and counter-ECM locked damage and UAV-locked damage and all that fun stuff! Let the great salt river of Mount Lurmstein flow once more! (Seriously, guys, this is kinda turning me on, and I don't think that's okay...)

Edited by TheRAbbi, 14 October 2015 - 10:49 PM.

[Pjwned]

SkyHammr, on 14 October 2015 - 10:39 PM, said:

Radar Dep, actually.
I started putting it on my ECM mechs now.

Radar Deprivation should also be half as effective as it is now actually, maybe even less than half.