280 replies to this topic

[TheSilken]

Envisage, on 02 December 2015 - 11:23 PM, said:

I was warned very specifically not to name names in forum or I can be banned from the game lol.

That has to do with name shaming. But that's fine man was just interested.

[Ezekeel666]

MischiefSC, on 02 December 2015 - 08:43 PM, said:

What you're missing is that most players are in the tier they are in BY CHOICE. That's why there isn't 'A Community'. We are distinctly not of a single mind on how to play the game. PGI created the game largely to cater to the Casual Dedicated Soloist, because they are the majority. Every attempt to include tools for communication gets ignored or railed against.

I have to strongly disagree.

You act as if simply using the available tools to communicate would put a PUG of strangers that never played together on the same level as a premade and that PUGs only lose because its players refuse to use those tools.

This premise is completely wrong. Reality is even if all players in such a PUG would use VOIP to communicate they would be not on the same level as a premade.

In a premade players know each other, they know each others play style, know each others voices, know each others mech builds which complement each other. Premades have a protocol for communication with dedicated people calling the shots.

On the other hand PUGs lack all of that. They have no synergy in their mech build (except by chance), do not know their team mates and their play style and communication can be a mess due to different people giving different conflicting orders.

PUGs will never be on the same level as premades. And the reason for that is not solely their refusal to communicate but the fundamental fact that for a team game players that are experienced in playing together have the edge over players that are randomly thrown together. PUGs vs premades simply does not create fair games for any team game. Someone prove me wrong and name just one team game that successfully has pulled this off.

[Revis Volek]

TheSilken, on 02 December 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

That has to do with name shaming. But that's fine man was just interested.

Yea, only when name and shaming...

You addressed every single one of us by name as you replied to us...its literally no different then that. I was also very curious but if your sources are a secret then so be it.

[RunWithRandoms]

Eh, I almost bothered to give in and name a bad example, but I removed it sorry.

[TheSilken]

I must admit you have intrigued me although at the same time the attitude is an issue.

[Revis Volek]

Envisage, on 02 December 2015 - 11:36 PM, said:

-stuff-

I mean everyone gets heated, especially when discussing things they enjoy or pay money for.

I care more about how people act after the dust settles then during it. If you can come back to another topic with a calm level head with someone you know you had an issue with last time...thats what i judge your character on. If you are that determined to be a part of it then maybe i mis judged them or maybe we just agree to disagree.

I mean its a game about shooting each other in the face...i didnt think it would be all hand holding and hugs and kisses.

[RunWithRandoms]

Ezekeel, does 28 in WAR vs the predominant pvp clan having a full 40, out fighting them for 2 hours til they had to call in 40 more to keep their castle from a pug count.

Pug leadership is a skill set. It's not undoable, it's just less often seen.

I could take any 11 of you and go kick the crap out of group que if you guys were up for it As could any of you. It's about establishing a recognisable voice, or three, early. And instilling confidence, and asking the right questions, and giving a little more time on calls to compensate for the pugs inevitable slower response times.

Yes, premades who have practiced together have an advantage as they have these things in grained, but they are not unachieveable via pug.

Also, I fear the day the new players join established units. Surely 50%+ will, but damn do we need many of them to forge some new territory, to shake some **** up.

actually to be fair, PuG leadership is a hell of a complex set of skills, but you do it, and you do it, and you do it, and eventually you GET it.

[Parnage Winters]

lol CS:GO players good.

I'm sorry kids, just because it's got counterstrike in the name doesn't mean it's actually good. CS:Go is trash and assuming that's going to make good mwo pilots is hilarious. Go be super eaglebandicoot scout someplace else.

Steam release isn't suddenly going to make players start communicating more, well at least not about the game. Expect a lot of stupid mic spam and people with disturbingly accurate Hank Hill impressions.

Also Elite dangerous captains? So do you even play the games you're talking about or.. are you just trying to eceleb? It's commanders ya bum.

[RunWithRandoms]

I guess you're relatively new to ED :-)

REALLY OLD video, and less important since they fixed the UI a bit after I posted this a long time ago, but if you're new it might help you out a bit.

[RunWithRandoms]

Also, a slip of a word doesn't devalue a point, unless you're in the high school debate team still?

[Mainhunter]

You really think the steam community is worse then our who votes skirmish and frozen city all the time - if they could?

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Envisage, on 02 December 2015 - 11:52 PM, said:

(selected fragments:)

I could take any 11 of you and go kick the crap out of group que if you guys were up for it As could any of you. It's about establishing a recognisable voice, or three, early. And instilling confidence, and asking the right questions, and giving a little more time on calls to compensate for the pugs inevitable slower response times.

Yes, premades who have practiced together have an advantage as they have these things in grained, but they are not unachieveable via pug.

actually to be fair, PuG leadership is a hell of a complex set of skills, but you do it, and you do it, and you do it, and eventually you GET it.

I applaud you in your optimism and for the noble goal you set for yourself...

BUT

You really are kidding yourself. Do you actually think you're the first person to do what you're doing? That there is no dedicated pug commanders in this game? For your information: yes, there are. Some are very successful in what they are doing. Charismatic. But none will be able to lead players that don't want to be lead, and there is a lot of such people, unfortunately. I wonder how are you going to lead non-english speakers? Or those with their voice comms off?

You don't know the game too well yet, but you're already assuming you'll be better than everyone else was for the last few years. Somehow I didn't seen any superb commanding skills in your videos, rather basic attempts at leading with basic newbie's mistakes.

And yeah, finally saw your first videos with voice. You have some good insight for new players and seem to be learning rather quickly,

BUT

You have a funny tendency to consider your (often accurate) observations about the T4 play as it was you discovering America instead of Columbus, as it was some ultimate knowledge nobody found yet. And proceed to make new assumptions basing on that assumption.
FYI: Thousands of people already came to the same conclusions you did. Only they're not in T4, exactly because they've learned what they've learned and went up. Just as you are going to leave the T4 soon. You're already too good for T4. But this doesn't mean that you're good, only that you're ready to leave the kiddie pool. Having great scores in any tier below 1 doesn't mean that you're good. It only means you're undertiered.

Some lectures for your consideration:
http://mwomercs.com/...ics-101-comics/
https://en.wikipedia...93Kruger_effect

[RunWithRandoms]

Gumby. That was a very sweet letter. Thank you :-) I feel all fuzzy inside.

But actually, I do appreciate your considered response. I'm currently uploading a video to youtube where I take the competition a little more seriously. I'll post it as soon as I can. Please do check back in maybe 20-30 minutes?

Oh, and spoiler alert, but we lose the game HORRIBLY. You might enjoy it though :-)

[RunWithRandoms]

[MischiefSC]

Ezekeel666, on 02 December 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

I have to strongly disagree.

You act as if simply using the available tools to communicate would put a PUG of strangers that never played together on the same level as a premade and that PUGs only lose because its players refuse to use those tools.

This premise is completely wrong. Reality is even if all players in such a PUG would use VOIP to communicate they would be not on the same level as a premade.

In a premade players know each other, they know each others play style, know each others voices, know each others mech builds which complement each other. Premades have a protocol for communication with dedicated people calling the shots.

On the other hand PUGs lack all of that. They have no synergy in their mech build (except by chance), do not know their team mates and their play style and communication can be a mess due to different people giving different conflicting orders.

PUGs will never be on the same level as premades. And the reason for that is not solely their refusal to communicate but the fundamental fact that for a team game players that are experienced in playing together have the edge over players that are randomly thrown together. PUGs vs premades simply does not create fair games for any team game. Someone prove me wrong and name just one team game that successfully has pulled this off.

I puged all the time, I played in a unit and with a variety of units. I useed chat every single drop - every single one. Pug or group queue or CW. If I was in CW I was in Davion TS, without fail.

The vast majority of the time in pug or group queue people ignore you if you say something more complex than 'We going center?' on Terra Therma. Generally you have about 2 other players who use voip or text chat. Most don't, most don't respond.

BTW, most premades play largely like pugs in group queue and even CW. They especially do in pug queue. I've pugged with people I know teamplay like a BAWS when they want to, but when pugging they just go do their pug thing.

People are in the tier they choose and they choose by how much they are willing to put themselves forward.

Also communication isn't an auto-win by any stretch. At all. A lot of the time people communicate in game, especially pug matches, it's to give bad tactical suggestions. Same with group queue really. Plenty of units/teams/premades make poor choices and bring bad builds.

Everyone is always looking for a magic bullet or something easy to blame. It doesn't work that way.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Good video. I hope the crowd here is paying attention, although I doubt it.

"The arrogance of the idea that a gamer cant play this game is appalling. Elitist crap. It's just a control system guy. It's not some kind of mystical power you have. Anyone can learn it, and learn it fast.

Stop clinging to a game feature like it makes you better than other gamers. If a CS:GO player can throw trick grenades or 2 tap across a map to the face, do you really think they're going to balk at a torso twist lol. pfft."


Heh. You're going to be attacked by a lot of losers here who have grown complacent from being big fish in a little pond.

It can be entertaining So enjoy. But show a little mercy, most these guys still have Daddy issues.

[RunWithRandoms]

SHOTS FIRED!

[Naduk]

Envisage, on 02 December 2015 - 08:33 PM, said:

I almost feel like running around with zoom filming for you guys so you can see what it looks like.

All this talk of pro level hard to master skills, and lol. That MAY exist in the top 1% but in any group drop that isn't a full 12 man, the fact remains people can't even use PTT to communicate across groups.

You're a divided community with no faith in each other. The top people have no faith in the guys below them, to the point they don't even see a point in sharing tactics. This top to bottom approach is butchering your own game. You do however have this insane idea that you're going to train people up to be "serviceable" skill levels. At which point they are free to follow along with you into your brain numbingly boring game meta where even the location to run to at the start of the game has become SO entrenched that if someone doesn't do it, it's a drama.

Are you guys REALLY willing to push this game under? Is that the objective? Because no new player is going to stick around for THAT ******** mess of a situation. You're on a grind you can't get off, because you've mastered BASICS, and can't cope with dynamics.

It's so amazingly thick, this internal mistrust and subversive self arrogance, that you can't even reliably use multi mech weapons such as LRM's which require other mechs to use to full effect. In fact, the general consensus seems to be towards solo builds in a team game.
Comments post game go to those with the highest damage, what about the guys that are scouting out and positioning the enemy? It goes unnoticed because of the mentality that this is just a mech FPS.

But the silly thing about it is it ALL boils down to the massive lack of faith in each other. The nearly complete void of communication and trust. You're a bad break up waiting to happen, and the games not going to recover if it misses this chance to fix itself.

And at the end of the day, you're going to tell yourself that it was PGI who dangled the carrot, so it's their fault. Cast the blame guys. Cast it as far as you can.

Look, wake up and realize you're playing checkers on a chess board. Or are you just too entrenched now to even try anymore.

YOU are why I suggest the new guys make their own units. Your insistence to grind slavery. Not PGI.

Envisage
your fighting a huge up hill battle and i commend you
just wanted to say this post nailed it completely

the amount of times i have seen high level units occupy the majority of a team and provide absolutely zero communication
even when asked, hey unit X you have the majority whats the plan ? and you dont even get static in return

you know they have a drop commander , would it really be so hard for them to use public coms
his unit can still respond on their TS , but it means the team as a whole can help them instead of hinder

my unit is trying very hard to break this mindset that we have all seemed to develop
we keep our silly banter and jokes and stupidity to our own TS, but we try to keep all our tactical communication to in game coms
sometimes we fall back into bad habbits, but we slap our selves on the wrist and jump back in

these habbits have formed due to the game not having the tools for so long and a general trend in gaming in general
for example, battlefield 3 and 4 were not released with voip at all, with claims from the developer that it was not necessary
well they get smashed with pressure to add it back in, but they do it with minimal effort and then its terrible so of course it dosent get used and on and on it goes
battlefield is not the only game doing this and they push more and more products aimed at console markets
a market that provides its own voip across games and allows developers to become lazy and not include it
this attitude spreads to the pc and we are now faced with horrible consequences

in 2015 we have worse communication tools that what was available in 2005
not just here but across the board and the world gaming community is being negatively effected by it

when voip was added to MWO, lots of people turned it off immediately and likely still have it off now
because they played an Xbox once and it was awful so that means all voip is awful
one of my own clan members did it, i called a target in game, his response was "oh yeah they added voip, thanks for reminding me so i can turn it off" all because of the irrational fear of the xbox experience (needless to say i handled that situation)
but the point remains and as you put it we have grown into a position of zero faith in the rest of the community and its a falsehood that needs squashing
its PTT with voice detection on top, so even if you open mic its not going to transmit unless your talking and if some console kiddy is annoying you and open mic's their TV in the next room just press TAB and click their sound icon, done , easy problem solved

so this is a call out to the big/top end units
start using the in game coms for your tactical talk
even if its just your drop commander

im not asking you to expect people to obey orders or what ever, just hearing what your doing is enough to change things, other unit commanders can adjust their moves to try and fit in with yours

smaller units look up to you guys more than you think, if you communicate others will follow suit and the game benefit as a whole

[RunWithRandoms]

Naduk. Thank you.

[Conjure]

So you have only been playing a week yet you know the game mechanics intimately?

Edit: Sorry guy in the video doesn't sound like a new player by any means to me. Thought that was kinda strange?

Edited by Conjure, 03 December 2015 - 03:52 AM.