100 replies to this topic

[pwnface]

Dimento Graven, on 02 December 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

As if 40% MORE damage and a LONGER burn time some how did NOT make sense. Put the lasers on an enemy 'mech for the same duration as an IS laser lasts, I'll bet you'll find the damage matches. That extra length in time allows for the additional damage pulses.

But... Logic be damned, the EZ-mode 'mechs must absolutely fire faster than IS 'mechs for... REASONS.

The math for this has already been done, the damage per tick is higher for Clan lasers with like 2 exceptions including the IS LPL. This is barring any quirks though, having laser duration quirks significantly increases the damage per tick values.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Sandpit, on 02 December 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

When things are fairly well balanced, that's usually the sign of a decent patch

Well...no I mean. It wasnt balanced before...and it seems the same as before...therefor...still unbalanced?

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 02 December 2015 - 11:29 AM, said:

ok so i have to ask, is all the laser vomit talk specifically clans?

IS mechs run shorter-range laser vomit pretty damn well. BLR, BNC, GHR, TDR, BL-KNT etc.

[Mister Blastman]

Kraftwerkedup, on 02 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Well...no I mean. It wasnt balanced before...and it seems the same as before...therefor...still unbalanced?

It is definitely still unbalanced. Laser vomit is alive and well and even better if you're Inner Sphere.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 02 December 2015 - 11:36 AM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

And the Wubshees range isnt exactly bad.

I wouldnt call 300m "short range" in this game. Even at 450 youre gonna be nailing 55 damage alphas in 0.53 seconds.

[Grimlox]

Seems like we will see just as much laser meta, but it will be confined to fewer chassis that have the appropriate quirks. At least that's how I see IS working. Clan might actually have more variety in chassis since they aren't pigeonholed into using very specific mechs to gain the quirk benefits.

I'm no expert but if I was building an IS dropdeck I would be picking only a couple variants that gain the most out of the meta. Not sure I like how the quirks define what we can effectively do with certain mechs, feels like it can really limit the builds.

[Kraftwerkedup]

And its 11 'ticks' for Wubshee lasers, so thats 5 damage per "tick" that hits you.

Pretty serious laser vomit right thar. Nothings changed. My Wubshee is exactly the same monster it was before, and everything else dies exactly like before.

Though I did have a moment on HPG last night where I was sure I killed an Atlas with a rear shot, and had to shoot him again.

Heat for some reason is actually better now than before? I dont get that since mastery skills took a whack? I didnt get any different quirks.

Then in the test, Wubshees were reduced from 3x2 slots to 2x2 slots (mech and weapon), and they didnt carry that over to the live patch, so I still got Wallhack, Adv Zoom, and MPL/LPL range, and LPL cooldown.

[Sandpit]

Kraftwerkedup, on 02 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Well...no I mean. It wasnt balanced before...and it seems the same as before...therefor...still unbalanced?

Matter of opinion

pwnface, on 02 December 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

IS mechs run shorter-range laser vomit pretty damn well. BLR, BNC, GHR, TDR, BL-KNT etc.

Trust me, I'm well aware and fond of (and own) every one of those mechs lol I just don't know who's talking about what. Some appear to be only talking about clan lasers, some IS lasers, and others both.

Just to clarify for my posts, I'm specifically speaking to IS lasers.

[Lugh]

Dimento Graven, on 02 December 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

There was a very FEW IS 'mechs that were quirked to have certain weapon systems slightly longer ranged than their Clan counterparts, HOWEVER, they still hit for less damage, generally weighed more and required more crit slots than the Clan version.

Most other quirks only partially closed the gap between the weapons ranges, but for the most part (again baring those too few IS 'mechs with exceptional quirks) the Clan version STILL hit from longer range and harder than the IS version.

There is no leg to stand on with this argument.

Effectively OUT OF THE GATE, Clan weapons were quirked, and the IS receiving SOME quirks only closed a bit of the gap, it did NOT make the IS "equal", nor even "OP".

Weird then how I'm tearing up just as much behind in my Marauders as I was in my Clan mechs. In many cases finding it even easier to do the hill hump poke with the AC on top than even on the Timber wolf.

I must be doing something wrong that it feels just as good to me as a Timber.

It is also weird that I took a stock TDR5SE out and had a very good game in it on my First game 3 kills 300 damage and over 5 games have these stats in a Trial Mech THUNDERBOLT TDR-9SE 5 3 2 1.50 5 3 1.67 1,257 10,218 00:33:48

Yeah sure IS mechs 'suck' and I am just doing it all wrong having success in them despite the clans purportedly being 'better'

[Lugh]

pwnface, on 02 December 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

The math for this has already been done, the damage per tick is higher for Clan lasers with like 2 exceptions including the IS LPL. This is barring any quirks though, having laser duration quirks significantly increases the damage per tick values.

And yet the Heat per tick, recycle time and total on target time all favor the IS. Which when you reach the mid range 500m > 200m having faster fire rates, firing shorter bursts, and lower heat all = more damage output in a shorter period of time. Typically that means dead opponents.

But hey if you aren't rolling your damage or running XL engines and crying about how fragile you are when you COULD be running a big ole standard engine and the HIGHER DAMAGE PER TICK IS LPL in great masses (3 before ghost heat) Which is 33 Damage per cycle at 21 heat and you CAN get 5 on a marauder compared to the comparable 2 Clan LPL at 26 damage and 20 heat per cycle

Then add in all the -duration -recycle time quirks you have on IS mechs and you are firing faster for more damage for a longer period of time (now with improve higher heat cap[why exactly does a lower heat weapon using style need the higher total heat cap])

And you can see why clan pilots hold you IS whiners in contempt, when you heat management, time available to roll damage and pin point accuracy of your weapons are all superior thanks to the shorter burn cycles.

[cazidin]

At this point, I think the only way to combat the laser meta would be for PGI to implement a proper heat scale.

[pwnface]

Kraftwerkedup, on 02 December 2015 - 11:37 AM, said:

And the Wubshees range isnt exactly bad.

I wouldnt call 300m "short range" in this game. Even at 450 youre gonna be nailing 55 damage alphas in 0.53 seconds.

People don't really run the Wubshee a whole lot anymore, 3xLPL + 5ML is better now IMO.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Ive never stopped running it. Theres few better alphas out there, even in the Holy Trinity.

[pwnface]

Lugh, on 02 December 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

And yet the Heat per tick, recycle time and total on target time all favor the IS. Which when you reach the mid range 500m > 200m having faster fire rates, firing shorter bursts, and lower heat all = more damage output in a shorter period of time. Typically that means dead opponents.

But hey if you aren't rolling your damage or running XL engines and crying about how fragile you are when you COULD be running a big ole standard engine and the HIGHER DAMAGE PER TICK IS LPL in great masses (3 before ghost heat) Which is 33 Damage per cycle at 21 heat and you CAN get 5 on a marauder compared to the comparable 2 Clan LPL at 26 damage and 20 heat per cycle

Then add in all the -duration -recycle time quirks you have on IS mechs and you are firing faster for more damage for a longer period of time (now with improve higher heat cap[why exactly does a lower heat weapon using style need the higher total heat cap])

And you can see why clan pilots hold you IS whiners in contempt, when you heat management, time available to roll damage and pin point accuracy of your weapons are all superior thanks to the shorter burn cycles.

First of all, I'm not an IS whiner. I play both Clan and IS mechs equally and would like to see fair gameplay balance, that is all. I don't have an inherent interest in making Clans or IS mechs stronger than the other, so please get bent on that regard.

Secondly, heat-per-tick for IS lasers is generally better than Clan lasers but this is largely offset by Clan lasers having higher damage-per-tick as well as being able to field more heatsinks. Total on target time means absolutely NOTHING if the Clan lasers have higher damage-per-tick. Damage-per-tick means for ever 1/10th of a second that Clan and IS lasers are exchanging fire, the Clan mech is doing more damage. If both mechs only get off 0.5 seconds of a laser beam, the Clan mech is winning in damage even if his total beam duration is longer.

I run laser vomit on both Clan and IS mechs and have not complained about either tech being too strong or too weak. I merely provided FACTUAL information regarding the MATH for damage-per-tick on IS vs Clan weapons. You are the one that started slinging personal remarks and making assumptions about my motives.

[pwnface]

Kraftwerkedup, on 02 December 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

Ive never stopped running it. Theres few better alphas out there, even in the Holy Trinity.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3c84d202885b6e5

Try it. You have a better effective range with the medium lasers and they sync nearly perfectly with the 3xLPL. I put together the build and leveled the mech and was putting together back to back 800-1200 damage matches without having my basics done. Seriously, my first 10 matches ever in the chassis and I had 4 of them over 1k damage.

[Revis Volek]

Paigan, on 02 December 2015 - 01:42 AM, said:

Thanks for the explanation. I am very well aware of the dynamic evolution of words.
However that does not apply here. It's no subtle change of meaning, it's a FUNDAMENTAL misinterpretation.
That is not an evolution, it is just an error in communication. No matter how many people use that error.

Example:
when "banca rotta" evolves into "bankrupt" over the centuries ("the trading table is broken"), that is perfectly fine.
But if someone comes along and says all of a sudden "hey guys, the word 'table' now means space rockets, okay?" that is NOT evolution. It is just dead on stupidity, nothing more.
if a thousand people run around and shout "Oh look, NASA is launching another table!" that does NOT make it correct. All it does is tearing down proper communication.

Otherwise, everyone could chaotically redefine words we use for communication at will and just say "hey, language evolves, broaden your chair".

"Metagaming" might be used in 10 different ways elsewhere, but always in the sense of the word: above/beyond the actual gaming. NOT in the MWO-misinterpreted way of saying "top notch" INSIDE the game.

So, in all humbleness to your arrogant last sentence, I might wanna suggest to: broaden your capability of understanding and differentiation. Or "Broaden YOUR horizon wide enough". Whatever works for you.


And please don't write me another PM saying how arrogant I am. YOU started with the "broaden your horizon" statement. I only answered accordingly.

You complain about this every time someone says meta...

You are wrong

[Sandpit]

DarthRevis, on 02 December 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

You complain about this every time someone says meta...

You are wrong

People like that have nothing pertinent to say on topic, got owned in a debate, proven factually wrong, etc. so then they decide to try and nitpick off-topic stuff. The whole "meta" definition is new though, they usually stick to the definition of MMO

[Sandpit]

cazidin, on 02 December 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

At this point, I think the only way to combat the laser meta would be for PGI to implement a proper heat scale.

That wouls combat just about every weapon balance issue in MWO in my opinion.

[Revis Volek]

Mister Blastman, on 02 December 2015 - 11:36 AM, said:

It is definitely still unbalanced. Laser vomit is alive and well and even better if you're Inner Sphere.

I said the same thing....


For some reason my posts were removed.

DONT TREAD ON ME!

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Am I one of the few people here that VASTLY prefers Clan laservomit to IS laservomit with the exception of a small collection of mechs such as the BJ-1X, BLK-6-KNT, and the Wubshee?