592 replies to this topic

[Sigmar Sich]

Sigmar Sich, on 07 December 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

I think future Tukayyid events need different victory conditions. As fun as it was, but victory will be decided only in final hours of this event.

For example - objectives - one at a time, one by one.
...
I believe such conditions will be much more entertaining.

Sorry for selfquote. I shaped this idea into suggestion, if you interested.

[KursedVixen]

CW would be a lot more fun with different game types other than Destroy all mechs, destroy all mechs, destroy this, destroy all mechs and this. we could use some real games like destroy these mechs but not the others, where you need to destroy a certain mech type or something or rescue a trapped mech? capture a destructable building and hold it for a certain amount of time? Scout missions? (Scout the area.)

Edited by KursedVixen, 07 December 2015 - 09:28 AM.

[HelBound]

Liking the balance so far, think things are on track.

Lot of butt-hurt, clan OP, easy mode stuff going on.
Previous to Ph4 the clan laser vomit was a bit much, range being what it was. Clans will take IS if its a ranged fight both now AND then. The range nerf helped make things a little less one sided when IS tries to close the gap. IS will typically take the close range, hint clan heat management isn't kind to brawling.

All in all I never drop CW solo, always with a TS based team and most often a 12man.
Makes CW something to behold....can't imagine what the CW solo teams are experiencing.

There are tricks to working with the clans. How you deal with hellbringers and stormcrows are different. I've learnt that when you see a cheeta, shoot it in the ****...works everytime (hit boxes be damned). The typical clanner is a more experienced pilot by virtue of the mech price. I'd wager Pug Vs Pug the clanner would take it.

Anyway, had a lot of good fights and close games this weekend. MS, 228, CGB etc

Would also like to see additional game modes and meaningful planet captures.
In the original CW pitch, capturing planet X meant AC10 ammo went up in price or Thunderbolts suddenly became unusable (factory capture). This would bring an entirely new element to the game.

As an IS player, if my unit decides we want need to take Ebon's out of the mix we can push hard against planet X and change the face of CW for as long as we can hold that planet. That gives a me a reason to keep buying mech bays and keep my mechs around because you'd never know. Each faction/clan should have a standard drop deck which cannot be blacked out by capture. Steiner would have an Atlas in there, because Steiner stock piles parts and Atlas mechs.

Thats the future of CW to me. Of course should that happen, someone will become irate because now their beloved DRG-1N is unusable. Bleh.

Edited by HelBound, 07 December 2015 - 09:51 AM.

[Dawnstealer]

KursedVixen, on 07 December 2015 - 09:27 AM, said:

CW would be a lot more fun with different game types other than Destroy all mechs, destroy all mechs, destroy this, destroy all mechs and this. we could use some real games like destroy these mechs but not the others, where you need to destroy a certain mech type or something or rescue a trapped mech? capture a destructable building and hold it for a certain amount of time? Scout missions? (Scout the area.)

And I've said this numerous other places, but what's needed is a take-and-hold mission. You have something like nine cap points in a rough line along a map. You have to capture nodes in sequence.

When you capture a node, you have the option of respawning there. At the end of the time limit, whomever controls the most nodes wins.

[Dassh]

Icantswim, on 07 December 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

All you people saying "Clan is easy mode", "joined clan, scored 1500-2500 on trial mechs", "IS is getting stomped".
Maybe we're playing different games, because every match I play looks more like this: http://imgur.com/YRtAGVI
No matter how hard I try I can't see neither easy-mode-instant-win-trial-mech pilots nor decent damages here...

You misunderstood me. I don't say Clan Mechs give you skills what you lack but that the top Clan Mechs ("metamechs" if you fancy) are better than their IS counterparts. Or morelike were better, since after the last patch I think things are mostly balanced. So the same player did better with them.
There are very good players on Clan side and there are very bad ones too indeed (like my last drop was with a pure 12 solo drop, no voip, chatting with wife meanwhile and I still got 12 kills. Like clubbing baby seals...).
What I say that it's funny that people who got used to the fake illusion of skill and success with their pre-patch Mechs just can't stop posting about how badly Clans are nerfed and how OP IS is (actually being just kind of balanced finally...).
And as you can read above their aren't the MS and KCom guys who own the current event from Clan side but guys who - as it seems - believe that such a thing exists like "IS ER medium laser". So that's all about that...

[Praesideus]

HelBound, on 07 December 2015 - 09:32 AM, said:

Previous to Ph4 the clan laser vomit was a bit much, range being what it was. Clans will take IS if its a ranged fight both now AND then. The range nerf helped make things a little less one sided when IS tries to close the gap. IS will typically take the close range, hint clan heat management isn't kind to brawling.

Maybe you have been playing with full unit too much, but to me IS dominates range now and can sustain more during brawling, not only because clan mechs overheat too fast, but because of the structure quirks. Theres a huge difference working with a nearly full unit than pugging these matches and believe or not but on most matches I ended up playing with Clan was defending Omega and we all hid behind the hill, just because we could not match the range.. waiting for IS to get close and then its all about brawling, which like you pointed out is not for clan mechs. Mind you this happened way too often for me to explain it here. I dunno, maybe it was because of bad pugs.. who knows. Seems that playing with units and pugging are like two different games ..man, maybe I should have joined unit after all. Oh well.. whats done is done.

[KursedVixen]

Praesideus, on 07 December 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

Maybe you have been playing with full unit too much, but to me IS dominates range now and can sustain more during brawling, not only because clan mechs overheat too fast, but because of the structure quirks. Theres a huge difference working with a nearly full unit than pugging these matches and believe or not but on most matches I ended up playing with Clan was defending Omega and we all hid behind the hill, just because we could not match the range.. waiting for IS to get close and then its all about brawling, which like you pointed out is not for clan mechs. Mind you this happened way too often for me to explain it here. I dunno, maybe it was because of bad pugs.. who knows. Seems that playing with units and pugging are like two different games ..man, maybe I should have joined unit after all. Oh well.. whats done is done.

with the recent changes I can see this happening a lot. I mean i can get a spider whose quirks make ER large laser ranges so high it makes ERPPC's obsolete yes i have a spider with a ER large laser that has an omtimum range of 810M The quirks are getting ridiculously ludicrous.

Meanwhile clan ranges are getting nerfffed hard and the lasers something they previously excelled at are getting worse....

Weapon quirks need to go period they are ruining the game what I propose for the ADR-Prime(For example) is this

First of all restore ERPPC Both Is and Clan to it's pre nerfed standard veliocity.
ERPPC Heat gen- replace with general heat gen quirk
ERPPC Velocity-replace with unnerfing of ERPPC

I really think weapon quirks and modules need to be removed from the game entierly.
Refund any owned weapon modules for their actual c-bill price....

Edited by KursedVixen, 07 December 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[HelBound]

KursedVixen, on 07 December 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

with the recent changes I can see this happening a lot. I mean i can get a spider whose quirks make ER large laser ranges so high it makes ERPPC's obsolete yes i have a spider with a ER large laser that has an omtimum range of 810M The quirks are getting ridiculously ludicrous.

Meanwhile clan ranges are getting nerfffed hard and the lasers something they previously excelled at are getting worse....

I've been hearing the spider ERLL thing a lot. Its a sniper light mech, so be it. Some of the quirks are a bit out of hand. However are you telling me, in the CW there is a 12man out there running ERLL spiders tearing you apart making the game unplayable?

Counter, its a spider. "Nothing says 'Hello' Like a Clan Guass slug to the FACE!" I'd say thats a solid counter, surely you can close that 810m gap.

Praesideus

That might indeed be the case in pugs. However running against organized teams I find the clans, with range and proper alpha builds certainly do their damage at range. The ability to focus and hold those lasers on target does damage in the 200m or so before IS hits optimal range.

Edited by HelBound, 07 December 2015 - 10:33 AM.

[KursedVixen]

Clans no longer have range advantage helbound.

[Praesideus]

HelBound, on 07 December 2015 - 10:30 AM, said:

That might indeed be the case in pugs. However running against organized teams I find the clans, with range and proper alpha builds certainly do their damage at range. The ability to focus and hold those lasers on target does damage in the 200m or so before IS hits optimal range.

Like I said.. pugging and going with a unit is like playing two different games. But the fact is theyre trying to make the game so even solo players can participate on CW and on its current state its not fun for a clan player to even bother with. I would gladly join a unit and I have seen how well it works when things are coordinated. Thing is.. youre not much use for the unit when you cant plan ahead how youre even online, able to play. I play a lot, but my gaming times are so random enough to call myself a casual player.

[Dawnstealer]

KursedVixen, on 07 December 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Clans no longer have range advantage helbound.

Oh yes they do, it's just that there are specific Inner Sphere mechs that possess quirks that swing it the other way. So the base Clan ERLL, for example, has a range of 740m. The IS version has a range of 675m. That's a range advantage.

Clan ERML? 405m. IS...regular ML (since there isn't an ER version)? 270m. That's a range advantage.

Clan ERPPC? 810m. IS ERPPC? 810m. There's one with no advantage. So it's not an IS advantage - it's even.

Now if you throw in quirks, and an IS player happens to be running that specific mech with a quirk, yes - there can be an advantage...with that ONE MECH.

[TheLuc]

Im with KursedVixen on that one, bring the lore back, fix match making and those silly weapon modules have to go out, there is lots of stuff that MWO do right and sadly it does not reflect on game play. I do have zillions of suggestions but will Russ take notice? pretty sure that not.

I'm very sure that participation rate for the even was not that high, previous event was so much better.

[Dawnstealer]

TheLuc, on 07 December 2015 - 11:17 AM, said:

Im with KursedVixen on that one, bring the lore back, fix match making and those silly weapon modules have to go out, there is lots of stuff that MWO do right and sadly it does not reflect on game play. I do have zillions of suggestions but will Russ take notice? pretty sure that not.

I'm very sure that participation rate for the even was not that high, previous event was so much better.

Sadly, lore had Clans as massively overpowered. That was only balanced out by the fact Mechwarrior (as opposed to Battletech) was a role-playing game: the Clans nerfed themselves.

First off, the Clans ran their mechs in Stars, where 10 Clan mechs would form the rough equivalent of 12 IS mechs, but even there, a 10 v 12 match between lore-based Clan mechs and lore-based IS mechs would be a ridiculously easy walk for the Clans.

Because they were so honorable, the Clans would also nerf themselves by bidding prior to a battle. Different units and Clans would bid for the right to invade a planet, with one saying "I could take it with 3 Stars" and the next saying "I could take it in two!" and the original saying "I'll do it in my underwear, blindfolded!" and so on.

Since this is a computer game and not a role-playing game, the first has some programming issues (according to Russ) and for the second, no Clan player would willingly nerf themselves. I mean, just look at these forums with the balance starting to approach parity. Then try to imagine those same players saying "Yeah, we'll run with a 200 ton cap because we're so much better than these guys."

Would never happen.

So PGI's only solution is to bring the weapons into some kind of balance. They're going with range vs heat and burn time. Personally, I would have gone with range vs damage, so IS weapons would do more damage with a steep drop-off over range, but Clan weapons would do more consistent damage over greater ranges. Clans would want to play at range, IS would want to brawl - lore achieved.

[Duvanor]

Dawnstealer, on 07 December 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

Oh yes they do, it's just that there are specific Inner Sphere mechs that possess quirks that swing it the other way. So the base Clan ERLL, for example, has a range of 740m. The IS version has a range of 675m. That's a range advantage.

Clan ERML? 405m. IS...regular ML (since there isn't an ER version)? 270m. That's a range advantage.

Clan ERPPC? 810m. IS ERPPC? 810m. There's one with no advantage. So it's not an IS advantage - it's even.

Now if you throw in quirks, and an IS player happens to be running that specific mech with a quirk, yes - there can be an advantage...with that ONE MECH.

This is true, but only if you got people who do not use the best quirks for their dropdecks. Otherwise it does not matter, that a Jagermech does not get more laser range, while you are in an Enforcer or Spider.

[LordSkeletor]

Youch!

[Dawnstealer]

Duvanor, on 07 December 2015 - 11:43 AM, said:

This is true, but only if you got people who do not use the best quirks for their dropdecks. Otherwise it does not matter, that a Jagermech does not get more laser range, while you are in an Enforcer or Spider.

Right, but my point is that only a few specific IS mechs have that range advantage, and I can guarantee that you will almost never see 12 in a single drop. While the ERLL Spider has a fantastic quirk, all of yesterday, I think I saw two.

Compare that to the Clan ERLL, which can be taken on any Clan mech - Clans will have a consistent range advantage.

There's no argument here: Clans have better range. They SHOULD have better range. But that needs to be balanced. To PGI's credit, it's starting to feel that way.

It used to be, attacking Boreal Vault, for example, you might as well just quit if you were IS, because by the time you made it to the GATE, you were already losing body parts (if not dead). Meanwhile, those Clan mechs could sit all the way back at Omega and hurl "ggnoobs."

Boreal's still a tough draw for the IS, but I had a few close games there yesterday, which I could never say before the Nerfening.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 07 December 2015 - 11:50 AM.

[Tollpatsch]

I had my event done after 11 matches (= 4003 Points, in a group 8-12 Players), 8 games versus single pugs. Easy wins, just as always and 3 games vs IS groups. Easy loss vs the meta+quirks. Also just as always.
Since there isn't any fun in stomping pugs or getting stomped by overquirked mechs, those 11 matches were enough CW for me for the next months.
I think the only reason why Clans are winning most of the time, is because on IS there are way more pugs and smaller groups, compared to the Clans.

[HelBound]

KursedVixen, on 07 December 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

Clans no longer have range advantage helbound.

Don't see it, sorry. Handful of quirked IS mechs will out range one for one but thats about it. Lance for lance the clans have range. Except the mysterious ERLL spider lance that keeps coming up.

I don't care about lore, I just want a fun playable stompy robot game to play when I need to blow off steam. Lore gives us a great wealth of resources to pull from. Outside of that I don't care about it and yes I did read all the battletech books years ago, play MW 2, 3, vengeance.... Id rather be entertained then worried about lore.

Even if I drop in a quirked long range IS build it does almost no good for my team. Because while they have to brawl I'm in the back trying to take pop shots here and there. A snipers damage is no where near as constant as a brawlers.

Over this weekend I ran sniper cicada build, wanted to grind the loyalty cicada. I'll tell you, with ERLL in one match and ERPPC's in the other I didn't feel like I had the range advantage....no range quirks on that build.

Anyway, I'm done with this range bit.

Edited by HelBound, 07 December 2015 - 12:44 PM.

[Araevin Teshurr]

The timers on the event has just over an hour left, but the attack phase on the map says 3days left, so will the battle go on for another three days and they will extend the challenge?

[Boaz Roshak]

hrmm any one who doubted how this would turn out needs to seek some help. You all have still failed to understand the idea of having a single hard stop point will benefit who ever can be on at that time. The last time we did this the IS lost with a higher weight limit, then it was cut after loosing. This time it was put back to where it had been cut to that last time, did you really think you finally balanced the game?? I sure hope not.. we launch into steam in less then a week and you are farther from being ready then you where when you limped out of closed beta WAY before you were ready.

I love the idea of this game and what it is at the core but it truly feel like you willfully mess it up just to see how much the players will put up with. I have said it before and will say it again you have my money you have no vested interest in keeping me happy. I have put far more cash into this game then I have in my last computer system I am not going any place but I truly wish you from the bottom of my hart all the best on this launch but I fear for what will happen when you present this to the steam community.