592 replies to this topic

[KursedVixen]

I would prefer that to the current gamestate

[Agamemnon78]

Most interesstingly their seem to be some people with brains left in the game from what I can read lately.
I sign Grothaus´ post to 100%

As IS, if you play with brains as mechwarriors should, you can almost on every map run into a brawl and win against even the most experienced clan-units. Put aside really well played tactical maneouvers with high risk potential. BEfore that, you soften those OP-Clan-Dreadnoughts with your quirked LL.
The "unique feeling" of a clan-mech:
Hot
Ineffective weaponry. Yes, High-Alphas. But inferior in most brawls. Even with moderate weaponry the heat-eff doesnt rise above average. cool builds are either laughably weak or simply stupid)

The Laser-range...lol. Lots of writing about that. But just compare your own weapon statistics:
How much damage do you make with one IS-Laser-hit compared to a clan-laser-hit?
--> Despite the Clan-Lasers have a higher max-damage they both do the same amount of effective damage in the fight.
But the heat the Clan-lasers generate is higher.
So, same damage for more heat. Nice. Good job, clan-techs.

Ok, if the IS-moron facing me doesnt twist, hes got a problem. But thats not mine.
The Clan-Lasers spread damage enormously due to their high duration.
At small and obstructive maps you start to highlight the paintjob on a TDR-5SS and by the time you get to the end of the laser-duration it vanished already behind a wall. So there you stand with you built up heat....


Mostly easy to hit in the center .You can twist as much you want with the now slower twistspeed),
expensive. And plz do not sum up a IS-build with big XL. XL-engines stay a no-go in competitive play for IS. Cope with the somewhat slower running-speed. What counts is the Acc/Decceleration, twist-speed and so on. The rest determines simply the time to the battleground.




I really do not know one good reason for a newbee to join Clan-Faction.

Their are lots of cheese-builds for the IS.
AC-builds with 4-5 AC´s, and THOSE have pin-point damage.
What would I give for a little bit of pin-point!!
Laser-Boats.
All easy-to-play one-click-happy-builds.

The Steiner-unit we faced at Boreal summed up pretty much, where the inbalance is:
They were ALL sitting in the usual laser-quirked Mechs and there were to 100% only LargeLasers.
Our first Maddog coming through the gates was pulverised and dead in 6 Secondes before he made more then 150m into the base.
The underpowered and oh-so-underequipped Steiner-team stood at their base, in a nice row, and lasered for devils fun at max range. I only saw small dark silhouettes in the distance, spreading a disco-party of LL-fire.
Even in close-range there was no chance to push through (ok, some Pugs beeing useless doesnt help), due to their fast cooldown and seemingly endless alpha-capabilities. They seem to eat our high-alphas for breakfast and even lights can chew away 2x 18 SRM and a laser-alpha on their legs.
Really, I think they ghost-buffed those lights, for so much damage seems to magically vanish even on spiders or Firestarters standing still.

So:
If a experienced IS-unit plays to the strengths of the actual IS-mechs its very very very hard for a experienced Clan-unit to win.
Its far away from a 50:50, where it should be.
That inexperienced teams of Pugs loose against clanners cant be the reason to make it so much harder for clans in the competitive corner of the game.

And that Clans arent a choice for newbies and that there are more newbies on the IS isnt our fault (they are somewhat expensive, arent they?? I know, lore, but hey, its not the TT here).

I have absolutely no problem with Clan-mechs essentially having the same damage as a solution. Let them just "feel" different. Its ok and its good for the game.
But they took the balanced IS-Weapon-System from the pre-clan-MWO-era and thought about how to make them "different".
Cause you had a then well-balanced system, every other system was unbalanced and ineffective.
Why th* f*** even Clan-SRM have half a meter more spread then IS-SRM? Not that it matters, cause SRM-meta is not the problem.

But high-alphas were never a real competitive direction to build you mechs. Never were.
Its been durability, manoeverability, balanced heat-efficiency and pin-point-capability.
Mostly clans have neither of that. And they have to work real hard in experienced teams to stay in the race, and get bashed for every inexperienced PUG we kill cause he thinks he can run straight into our team with his newly-bought IS-Assault and sourvive. Lol...
in 2012 and 2013 I died a hundred times in my atlas just for getting around the "wrong" corner at the wrong time. My fault, no whining.
Now it seems they are blaming the clans for all their faults...

That the High-Priest of PGI personally invited large IS-Merc-Clans to join the Clan-faction for the event may have been an understandable effort to generate more data.

But now the clans won "again", the whining starts and the next buff/nerf-round is peeking around the corner.
and in the end, the experienced IS-teams (which previously fought for the clans in the event and biased the outcome) get even more competitive mech-builds.

I want no easy wins against PUG.
I want hard fought and even battles between competitive teams.
But getting steamrolled by cool and fast-shooting large-laser-boats accompanied by some magic-hit-box-SmallPulse-Lights isnt exactly what makes such a fight fun.
No roles, no tactics, no sense at all.

[Diplomat99]

My sum-up for the event: Balance does not matter, as if -MS- or 228 would go IS, thinks might look different, so unless you balance Player/Skill-Tier (which is impossible) in CW drops, matches will tend to be one-sided.

Technical issues were botherings, as the IS 240 drop weight which was changed back to 250... Was there a reason, or someone made a mistake at PGI?

On the Taiga-Map (with the f***-ton of trees) it is still(!) possible to shoot Gen 2 from outside the walls from the hill with CERLL. Which makes them need one less Gen to rush and winning easier.

As skill goes, eigther make the event Unit-only or Pug-only and I think the outcome can be different. I am happy to fight for FRR and have another defeat banner to hide in my closet. At least Top IS Faction .

[Dagorlad13]

whitelightshadow, on 07 December 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Nerf? It was the same on the previous tourney and that one you also won right?
You can be glad PGI dont care about lore, cause then you would have 10 mechs
on Clan side and be outnumbered 4:1....

And if PGI followed lore, each of those 10 Clan mechs would be able to take out 2 or 3 of the IS mechs. Clans and IS are mostly balanced now, with IS getting the edge in brawling and Clans having a very slight advantage in range. This even was mainly decided by the top-tier premade groups, since the PUG matches were very close with the defender usually winning by a narrow margin.

Edited by IronClaws, 08 December 2015 - 12:08 AM.

[Dagorlad13]

Diplomat99, on 08 December 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

My sum-up for the event: Balance does not matter, as if -MS- or 228 would go IS, thinks might look different, so unless you balance Player/Skill-Tier (which is impossible) in CW drops, matches will tend to be one-sided.

Technical issues were botherings, as the IS 240 drop weight which was changed back to 250... Was there a reason, or someone made a mistake at PGI?

On the Taiga-Map (with the f***-ton of trees) it is still(!) possible to shoot Gen 2 from outside the walls from the hill with CERLL. Which makes them need one less Gen to rush and winning easier.

As skill goes, eigther make the event Unit-only or Pug-only and I think the outcome can be different. I am happy to fight for FRR and have another defeat banner to hide in my closet. At least Top IS Faction .

I would love to see CW separated into PUGs vs PUGs and Premades vs Premades. As much as I agree that CW should be "hard mode" and "team warfare", the only way PGI will get casuals to play CW regularly would be to have PUG vs PUG mode.

Edited by IronClaws, 08 December 2015 - 12:12 AM.

[Arkhangel]

IronClaws, on 08 December 2015 - 12:11 AM, said:

I would love to see CW separated into PUGs vs PUGs and Premades vs Premades. As much as I agree that CW should be "hard mode" and "team warfare", the only way PGI will get casuals to play CW regularly would be to have PUG vs PUG mode.

I agree. also think there should be unit size limits. i mean, in the lore, generally a regiment-sized Merc Unit was considered huge. limit it at 108. do something like EVE where you can "alliance" units under the same faction, so on, and give good rewards for doing so, as well as better signing bonuses for longer contracts.

honestly, week-long contracts are the stupidest thing ever. no ACTUAL country would hire a PMC for just a week.... not to mention most Self-respecting merc units would probably want a longer job. they get paid more. prob is, merc contracts right now pay on a per-mission basis. they should be paid on a "contract ends" basis, and the longer the contract, the more you make per mission you completed under it. Permanent signers would get weekly or by-weekly paychecks dependant on their performance.

just a thought. don't think it's a bad one either. would incentivize staying with a faction longer, or even permanently.

[Vellron2005]

I would just like to take this opportunity to congratulate everyone on a well-fought tournament.

In my opinion, the balance is now close to equally sided between Clan and IS (which is kinda ridiculous, because lore), and the matches have been decided mostly be sheer skill and tactics.

I've seen some pretty even matches, where the winner was decided simply by who wanted it more, and who had more patience.

I've beaten pugs, been beaten by pugs, have beaten premades, been beaten by premades, and it was all in good fun (although at times frustrating).

The two hardest things for me to get used to was the fact that LRM's now have a greater cooldown. I used to be able to time it by sound and feel, now I actually have to look at the weapon bars to know.

Also, it is very hard to get used to the speed nerf upon torso loss. That means that any fast mech is virtually dead as soon as it looses a torso.

Also, IS mechs are now tanky as all hell.. I've been amazed how many times I over estimated my weapons and your IS quirks have won out. We can alpha you for days now, and you guys just keep coming at us.

All in all.. its been fun.

I'm proud that Clans WON ONCE AGAIN, and although as the 4th place unit member, I missed out on some banners and warhorns, that second Victory Banner has a special place in my heart.

I also made a staggering 50.000.000,00 c-bills (give or take a few 100K) during the event, so that makes me very happy.. Now I just need to decide what to spend it on.. what mechs to master..

Good job everybody!

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

Diplomat99, on 08 December 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

My sum-up for the event: Balance does not matter, as if -MS- or 228 would go IS, thinks might look different, so unless you balance Player/Skill-Tier (which is impossible) in CW drops, matches will tend to be one-sided.

Hopefully, someday, there will be enough in the CW queue for match making, but I seriously doubt it.

Quote

... I am happy to fight for FRR and have another defeat banner to hide in my closet. At least Top IS Faction .

As an IS loyalist in a Merc unit (I go where my boss says the C-Bills are, but I'd rather fight for Kurita), the Wolf banners will go right next to the rest of my clan swag, rolled up next to the crapper, for "emergencies".

Arkhangel, on 08 December 2015 - 12:33 AM, said:

I agree. also think there should be unit size limits. i mean, in the lore, generally a regiment-sized Merc Unit was considered huge. limit it at 108. do something like EVE where you can "alliance" units under the same faction, so on, and give good rewards for doing so, as well as better signing bonuses for longer contracts.

In practice, what do you think unit population caps will change? 228th IBR, for example, has about 180 members and is currently organized into five "battalions" (2x IS Comp, EU Comp, OC Comp, and CW/Casual). Chances are, we're still going to play together and roll the queues just as hard with or without an arbitrary limit. -MS-, as another example, is essentially an organized bunch of other smaller units that work together to achieve their leadership's goals.

[Wilburg]

Agamemnon78, on 07 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

The Steiner-unit we faced at Boreal summed up pretty much, where the inbalance is:
They were ALL sitting in the usual laser-quirked Mechs and there were to 100% only LargeLasers.
Our first Maddog coming through the gates was pulverised and dead in 6 Secondes before he made more then 150m into the base.
The underpowered and oh-so-underequipped Steiner-team stood at their base, in a nice row, and lasered for devils fun at max range. I only saw small dark silhouettes in the distance, spreading a disco-party of LL-fire.

Hi,
I´m just picking this up, as I was part of one of those tactics the last days. It summons it up pretty well, where the problem is: the own medicine always sucks. This describes exactly the problem you were having since CW started especially on Boreal. The CER-LL never needed a quirk to stand back in the base. Infinite matches I saw IS mechs going through the gate with less than 75% as they got shot from Omega by CER-LL and PPCs.
The whining first started, when especially 3 Mechs got quirked to at least face that distance. 2 of them got nerfed by now, but (fortunately?) 2 new ones came. So the complaining will go on. I remind you, that we are talking about 3 (CW viable) mechs versus at least 4 viable Clan chassis.
Complaining becomes flaming as it´s not only about the ability of tradeing on the same distance any more. Now the CER-LL have a slightly worse range .. with still more durability. So grab your forks, folks ...

Edit:
Oh, and ...

Agamemnon78, on 07 December 2015 - 11:05 PM, said:

So:
If a experienced IS-unit plays to the strengths of the actual IS-mechs its very very very hard for a experienced Clan-unit to win.
Its far away from a 50:50, where it should be.
That inexperienced teams of Pugs loose against clanners cant be the reason to make it so much harder for clans in the competitive corner of the game.

You had a look at the final score? Clan Wolf had what? More points than Ras and Steiner togehter?

Edited by Wilburg, 08 December 2015 - 05:15 AM.

[ExAstra]

Lily from animove, on 05 December 2015 - 05:02 PM, said:

Why? does the neurohelmet of those mechs come with an built in teamwork module?

Well well, someone's salty!

Not entirely sure what you're even getting at so I'm reading your post 2 ways -

If "those mechs" is referring to ComStar's Mechs (as ComStar is not a mech) my response is: It's just a joke about the lore, drink some tea and calm down.

If "those mechs" is referring to my comment about Nova Cat and Diamond Shark my response is: Nova Cat and Diamond Shark are Clans (Factions), not mechs. Like ComStar. I was asking PGI to include ComStar as an IS faction and Nova Cat and Diamond Shark as Clan Factions. Drink some tea and calm down.

[Nomad Radick]

So after beating the snot of the IS yet again and with the r-tarded nerfs to the heat management, may we please get a rollback on that. We've proven that it's the pilots, not the mechs that make Clanners so strong. So yeah PGI get to work...

Edited by Nomad Radick, 08 December 2015 - 02:41 AM.

[Rebel Ace Fryslan]

Nice event.

Some good tactics.


Ps: Next time plz more sectors, 10%
And defenders could be a 1% easier (delay in opening omega?) and counter attackers as well. (able to re-active a few turrets ?)

BTW weird idea destroying gens to openup gates and a gun defence.!!!

[Diddi Doedel]

Diplomat99, on 08 December 2015 - 12:00 AM, said:

...

On the Taiga-Map (with the f***-ton of trees) it is still(!) possible to shoot Gen 2 from outside the walls from the hill with CERLL. Which makes them need one less Gen to rush and winning easier.

...

As if quirked IS-ERLL couldn't do the same...
But I agree. PGI, please make it impossible on Taiga or any other CW map to kill gens or Omega from outside the gates.

[JaidenHaze]

whitelightshadow, on 07 December 2015 - 10:35 PM, said:

Nerf? It was the same on the previous tourney and that one you also won right?
You can be glad PGI dont care about lore, cause then you would have 10 mechs
on Clan side and be outnumbered 4:1....

If they would care about lore we would have way better mechs and if you read the Tukayyid part of the lore, nearly a similar setup of mechs. It wasnt 4 on 1. Accordingly to the Tukayyid Scenario book on page 20, Bidding rules, clan can only field up to 75% of the battle value of the Comguards. Given that you have roughly a 2x higher BV, you can assume that you could see 2 Level II Units against one Clan Star. (That means 12 Comguards against 5 Clanners, not 20 vs 5 as you said).

The Clans where very successful with their initial attack plans. The real reason why they lost was the attrition war. Clans specialized on short duration engagements with a highly limited amount of sources. Focht forced them in a situation the Clans where not experienced enough to deal with.

BTW: On Tukayyid, Clans where represented by the four initial Invasion Clans as well as Clan Nova Cat, Clan Diamond Shark and Clan Steel Viper..

So please get your facts straight

Edited by JaidenHaze, 08 December 2015 - 03:02 AM.

[Diddi Doedel]

Shadey99, on 07 December 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

...
Like 2 IS mechs variants (not mechs, but variants) can exceed clan laser ranges and those are the BLR-1S and RVN-4X. Most IS mechs don't get range quirks. So yes some specific IS mechs can outrange, however most clan mechs can outrange most IS mechs. On Boreal for instance I need at least a LL to 'snipe' from the hills as IS, but a clanner can do it with ERMLs (for nearly equal damage).

That said, I'm a lore diehard and I feel nerfing the clans to much is the wrong idea.

Max Range for IS ERLL is 1350m, for C ERLL it is 1480, so a 10% Range Bonus on IS gets it to 1485 which is more than 1480.

As for the mechs with Energy or ERLL Range bonus:
10% = 1485m, +5m compared to C-ERLL:
COM-1B, FS9-A, FS9-K, JR7-K, , SDR-5D, CRB-27, ENF-4P, KTO-GB, VND-1R, CTF-0XP, DRG-1C, TDR-5SE, BNC-3M, BLR-1G, BLR-2C, BLR-3M, BLR-3S, STK-4N, STK-5S, ZEU-6T
15% = 1552m, +72m compared to C-ERLL:
COM-DK, LCT-1V, SDR-A, WLF-1, CDA-3M, HBK-4G, TBT-5N, VND-SIB, WVR-7D, BL-6B-KNT, CPLT-C1, CPLT-J, DRG-1N, GHR-5H, GHR-5P, TDR-5S, TDR-5SS, AS7-BH, AS7-RS, AWS-8T, AWS-PB, BLR-1D, HGN-733P, STK-3H, ZEU-9S
20% = 1620m, + 140m compared to C-ERLL:
LCT-PB, UM-R60L, BJ-1X, BJ-3, BJ-A, ENF-4R, GRF-1S, WVR-7K, BL-6-KNT, BL-7-KNT-L, CPLT-C4, QKD-5K, AWS-8Q
25% = 1687m, + 207m compared to C-ERLL:
LCT-1E, LCT-3S, PNT-8Z, BJ-1, BJ-1DC, CDA-2A, KTO-20, WVR-6K, QKD-4G, QKD-4H, QKD-IV-Four, TDR-TD, AWS-8V, BLR-1S, HGN-732B
30% = 1755m, +275m compared to C-ERLL:
RVN-4X, SDR-5V, HBK-GI
35% = 1822m, +342m compared to C-ERLL:
CDA-X5
40% = 1890m, +410m compared to C-ERLL:
COM-1D
50% = 2025m, +545m compared to C-ERLL:
LCT-1M, LCT-3V

Hmm... don't know... but that is more than 2 variants....

Ok, you'll say, that goes for ERLL only...
For an IS ML to outrange a clan ER-ML, you need a bonus of 30%, the IS SL will outrange a C-ERSL at a bonus of 35%, SPL is equal to a C-SPL at 35%, a IS MPL outperforms a C-MPL at 30%, Only with the LPL the IS is at a disadvantage.

So far for Clan winning the peeking range..

[Ninjah]

I wonder if pugs had scores like this... Average in a Wolf unit.

Edited by Ninjah, 08 December 2015 - 03:55 AM.

[The Great Unwashed]

I dropped 15 games with BMMU and we won all those 15 games; I even managed top damage/kills in three games so I pulled my weight (training is working; avg score 370). Thanks guys

Edited by The Great Unwashed, 08 December 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[Tank]

I say this game need more meta beatings - no pure 4 ERPPC+ or max laser vomit should be on the field, no 1 button mechs - that's stupid to exist and defeats whole purpose of Battletech. Gameplay dies with such builds.

I didn't see OP or inferior mechs, but on this even I had seen a lot of less skilled people on the field than ever before on both sides Clan and Inner Sphere - so I don't buy "more experienced Clanners", few units - yes, but we got good units on both sides.

Once again people are just whining for "WIN BUTTON".

Such events should be locked to units or at least a 2 man group build teams, basic teamplay may improve things drastically.

[Rushin Roulette]

Kageru Ikazuchi, on 08 December 2015 - 01:24 AM, said:

In practice, what do you think unit population caps will change? 228th IBR, for example, has about 180 members and is currently organized into five "battalions" (2x IS Comp, EU Comp, OC Comp, and CW/Casual). Chances are, we're still going to play together and roll the queues just as hard with or without an arbitrary limit. -MS-, as another example, is essentially an organized bunch of other smaller units that work together to achieve their leadership's goals.

You are right. This wont change at all. That is not the point;


However, what will deffinitely change withthe unit size restriction is this;



Clan Wolf will still win hands down with all MS/228 and so on units moving as one mass from faction to faction. The planets in regular CW will still be switched from whatever to -MS1-, -MS2-, etc... depending on which particular unit made the most contribution.

What will change however is that there will be a lot of competition between the various MS units and every other unit in that faction for place 1 on the leaderboard such as Tukayyid or similar. As it is now. there is absolutely no chance for any unit which does not have a remotely similar size as a megamerc unit to even compete. No chance what so ever no matter how skilled or active they are. Its basic maths.

Example:
A large unit with 200 players each playing one match generates 200 points. A smaller unit with 20 players generates 20 points in the same time period. This means the 20 player unit is forced to play 10 times as many perfect games just to be able to even keep up with the large unit and this is not even trying to overtake them.

Capping the size of a unit will lower this threshold for everyone. A unit at the cap will stil have 100 players, lets say they have a very high activity rate of 80% meaning 80 of these are playing. A small unit with 30 players and an upper avergage of 70% activity, meaining 21 are actively playing. They no longer need to play 10 games just to keep up, They can manage to keep up with and overtake the larger unit by playing only 4 perfect games to each game the large unit plays.

Is it difficult... heck yes. Any small unit needs to work its *** off to profile itself. Is it impossible?... No, the threshold to being successful is less than half as high as it was before. The tournaments are dictated more by quality instead of raw quantity.

[The Great Unwashed]

Really, you want to punish a unit for being successful?