50 replies to this topic

[Haakon Magnusson]

Sandpit, on 07 December 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

This weekend's event is what got this idea niggling around in my head. A very long time ago some of us suggested that PGI run CW in a manner that allowed them to control the avenues of attack on the map, and decrease queue times. After playing this weekend I realized that this is almost exactly what they did with Tuk.

SO this is how they can improve the entire CW experience while making it a much deeper section of the game and adding lore and story and all that good stuff we love about things like the clan invasion.

CW will be run in seasons. Each season will culminate in the Tuk battle and we have a big tournament just like this weekend (although I might make the tournament longer than just a weekend to give more players a chance to jump in). At the end of the season winners are crowned, prizes are awarded and the winning side gets some sort of special badges and titles and such for winning that season.
Using this system they would also be able to hold smaller "weekend style" tournaments throughout the season and hold some of the classical and historical battles during the clan invasion.

So how would it work?

PGI simply controls the IS map and starts producing accurate and timely Comstar Headlines and news reports that used to be so popular when we all (including PGI) were still wide eyed hopefuls as opposed to salty cynics lol. That's really at it takes. A lot of CW problems solved.

Sounds too simple? Not really, PGI would control the avenues of attack and borders just like they did this weekend. They control the ebb and flow of the map by simply opening certain borders and closing others. This allows PGI to help smaller units become involved and have a more meaningful impact as well as prevent them from getting rolled up by big organized units or getting isolated with a border that doesn't have any viable enemy planets to attack.
..
Here's the catch. At the start of each season every player has a single choice to make. Clan or I.S.
Once you make that selection you can't switch back and forth from side to side. You can switch factions within a side but you can't jump from one side of the fight to the other. This gives PGI hard numbers on how many clans and how many IS players they have available which is essential to help balance. You can switch again after a season is over, but once that selection is made you're on that side for the duration of the season.

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 08 December 2015 - 01:02 PM, said:

First idea:
Consolidate factions. Make Davion and Steiner into the Federated Commonwealth (which it should be anyway), have Kurita and FRR become allies (as they were on friendly terms after the FRR was formed, especially after the Ronin incident), and have Marik and Liao be allies as they were frequent trade partners.

Yeah, the mishmash of attack directions which some piece of code whips up.. it definitely needs to be seasons because once you leave the map running it's going to end up all funny already in few months. This CW is no Eve nullsec, at least not yet.

I'm guessing PGI is thinking along same lines, allowing loyalists some say in matters. (Or perhaps forcing some truces with some fluff)
If you check the loyalist screenies in steam launch teaser (@0:35 https://www.youtube....d&v=v3xR_Ugat1w) you have relations with your neighbors; at war, hostline, rivals and allies

Propably mostly WIP, but still shows that they are thinking that it is more complex structure than simply how many attack lanes.

I do dislike the way mercs are now, being able to hop from IS to Clan at will, which is so counter to fluff of the game. But I do understand realities with mech packs. I'd imagine for some people being stuck on a side is another "my wallet stays shut until blaa blaa"
Perhaps they'll eventually hopefully implement something like splitting account mechs to characters, which may be aligned to factions then in a more sensible manner.


EDIT: Hmm just spotted that the header on status is "traditionally" so it just a fluff hint maybe

Edited by Haakon Magnusson, 12 December 2015 - 05:11 PM.

[Karamarka]

In CW phase 3 they have said that there is a vote for attack and defend

[Sandpit]

Karamarka, on 12 December 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

In CW phase 3 they have said that there is a vote for attack and defend

my suggestion would take it just about 3 steps further honestly. Really it turns CW into a campaign and PGI just controls the attack and defend avenues a bit closer.

[krash27]

Sandpit, on 07 December 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

In a nutshell that is all I can think of at the moment. I'm sure there will be tons of ideas that flow once the discussion starts and I look forward to the community's thoughts on this. Please, keep it constructive. Please keep it on-topic. Those who know me know that I tend to my threads and hit the report button liberally for those that like to offer nothing constructive and simply want to derail, flame, troll, etc. There's plenty of threads out there for you to do that in. Even if you completely disagree with someone else's idea, be respectful please.

This is a great idea, a great start!
Here is a post I made on another topic, I was urged to repost and support this thread:

Spoiler

I agree, I can understand the regular queues having the MM and even separated group from solo.
CW is a different beast. There should be no MM and no group limits.
You pick your faction and you fight for it. If your faction is the underdog then you go down fighting.
one of the REAL issues I see with CW is trying to get a fairly small player base to fill up so many factions.

I think there should be campaigns, at the beginning of each campaign each merc unit could negotiate a deal with one of the house factions (possibly clan also?) while of course the house loyal units and clan units would fight for their house.
The map would actually be Clan vrs IS but with all the clans fighting for the common goal of IS takeover and all the IS houses fighting to beat them back to possibly an arbitrary line in space (possibly annex Huntress).
this would keep it to Clan vrs IS and would allow for a High Command structure and the High Command could issue attack or defend orders to the various units within their side such as IS High Command using -MS- to push and create a breach out into the periphery while the House Kurita troops could reinforce and hold the flanks of this push.

No match maker, no group or solo garbage. Each player per side regardless of if they are House Kurita Troops or Merc troops hired by the IS are fighting for the common goal of pushing the clans back or vice versa

just a quick idea.

A lot of what I said was a simplified version of the OP.
The potential with this idea is huge and I support it 100%.

To further the discussion, one thing I would like to touch on is attack vectors.
This is fairly easy to control the attack vectors. First and foremost, if we had a command "company" on each side, they could set out our basic strategy and activate "areas of operation" which would allow the House or Unit commanders to attack or defend along the strategic route the command company has selected. Further control could be asserted with supply lines. Supply lines would be mandatory so one side couldn't just attack a particular planet by jumping past a bunch of other planets on the way. Supply lines would be key and would need to be planned out. In order to attack any planet deep in another's realm, your side must hold and defend your supply lines for obvious reasons.

For example lets say the clans break through and push a narrow line to Terra, being that they pushed straight through to Terra taking as few planets as needed then supplies would be limited for any assault on Terra. These limitations could come in the form of weight restrictions or possibly assault force size restrictions as their supply line would be strung out and thin.

That is just another small idea that could be built upon.

This thread has some great ideas, Thanks Sandpit for pointing me at this thread.
We should be pushing this as much as we can, it would make this game great!

krash27

[N0MAD]

Having seasons is a no brainer, most of the games ive played where you have faction vs faction have had this eg POTBS.
Locking units into one faction for a season will have problems and abuse, simply because people/units will exploit this mechanic via having multiple accounts.

[Sandpit]

Thanks guys!

These ideas came from not just myself (i'd love to take full credit lol) but from many conversations with many players across every unit and faction. These are genuinely community created ideas.

I can't find any "loopholes" in these ideas and I'm hoping you guys can so that we can plug those holes and figure out how to streamline the ideas presented.

Personally I belive 3 simple changes would change the entire landscape to CW and make it far more entertaining across the board

1.) Lock sides at the start of a season. A player selects IS or clan for that season. They can jump factions within that side but not jump across to the "other side" until after that season of CW. This gives PGI more definitive numbers to deal with which makes it easier to guide the map and prevent large units from rolling up the entire map whenever they want.

2.) CW = seasons. Run them for 3-4 months and end that season with Tuk Battle. This gives units, players, and facions a definitive goal instead of just running around trying to fight as many as 4 fronts at once with no goal other than flipping planet tags.

3.) PGI control the attack and defend corridors. IF they followed the first two steps it makes controlling the IS map much easier and less time consuming. They can announce that Wolf and Falcon Khans have agreed to mutual attack path and batchall. Then share the borders for those two factions and there you go. You do the same on the IS side. Everyone at first glance seems to think I'm suggesting some excessively restrictive map. I'm not, I'm pointing out that the wide open "sandbox" approach given the size of the map and the size of the population is quite simply "too much". There are too many options at the moment and it's extremely confusing for all players, new and old alike

[WANTED]

I like these three points Sandpit. This is similar to WWIIONLINE where the sides are locked until a victor is declared...Axis or Allies. There is a purpose to capturing towns and cities and they have had years to perfect their design cause they had same issues early on as well. Here it would be planets and later hopefully resources and tech could be implemented like WWIIONLINE as Tiger tanks come in later when you have expended resource points into R&D from capturing locations. Something similar could be implemented into Clan and IS tech.

Size of map is issue for CW as you said and I like your solution

Edited by WANTED, 14 January 2016 - 10:18 AM.

[Sandpit]

WANTED, on 14 January 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

I like these three points Sandpit. This is similar to WWIIONLINE where the sides are locked until a victor is declared...Axis or Allies. There is a purpose to capturing towns and cities and they have had years to perfect their design cause they had same issues early on as well. Here it would be planets and later hopefully resources and tech could be implemented like WWIIONLINE as Tiger tanks come in later when you have expended resource points into R&D from capturing locations. Something similar could be implemented into Clan and IS tech.

Size of map is issue for CW as you said and I like your solution

I'd love huge open maps, but I'm not holding my breath lol

I think these just honestly would help improve CW overall and have a viable chance of being integrated because they require next to no work on PGI's part. All of the code and mechanics for these changes are already in the game, this would just utilize them in a different manner.

[Kin3ticX]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

I'd love huge open maps,

I doubt it will happen. If people think the long range attrition spam on boreal and others is bad wait until we get a flat map with no choke points. I just don't see it happening. Choke points and gates are a mixed bag to be sure, but at least if you want brawl range it can happen there.

[krash27]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Thanks guys!

These ideas came from not just myself (i'd love to take full credit lol) but from many conversations with many players across every unit and faction. These are genuinely community created ideas.

I can't find any "loopholes" in these ideas and I'm hoping you guys can so that we can plug those holes and figure out how to streamline the ideas presented.

Personally I belive 3 simple changes would change the entire landscape to CW and make it far more entertaining across the board

1.) Lock sides at the start of a season. A player selects IS or clan for that season. They can jump factions within that side but not jump across to the "other side" until after that season of CW. This gives PGI more definitive numbers to deal with which makes it easier to guide the map and prevent large units from rolling up the entire map whenever they want.

2.) CW = seasons. Run them for 3-4 months and end that season with Tuk Battle. This gives units, players, and facions a definitive goal instead of just running around trying to fight as many as 4 fronts at once with no goal other than flipping planet tags.

3.) PGI control the attack and defend corridors. IF they followed the first two steps it makes controlling the IS map much easier and less time consuming. They can announce that Wolf and Falcon Khans have agreed to mutual attack path and batchall. Then share the borders for those two factions and there you go. You do the same on the IS side. Everyone at first glance seems to think I'm suggesting some excessively restrictive map. I'm not, I'm pointing out that the wide open "sandbox" approach given the size of the map and the size of the population is quite simply "too much". There are too many options at the moment and it's extremely confusing for all players, new and old alike

We need more people supporting these ideas.
With the current direction Russ is taking CW at the encouragement of "solo" players, the game is moving farther and farther from any of these ideas.
Looks like CW might turn into another pug droppers play ground.
I foresee most of CW happening in pug drops and the organized units won't affect much (assuming the two queues affect the same map) being that there are so few of them fighting compared to pug drops. So organised teams will be back at square one, long wait times and sheer boredom.
The side effect of this could be organised teams scrapping CW and group drops all together in favour of 3rd party leagues.

How to show people that these ideas can work to foster a CW community where pug players augment the organized units?

I might have to jump on TS sometime Sandpit, when you guys are discussing such ideas.
I would be more than willing to hash these ideas out with you folks and come up with a viable framework that can be presented to the community and PGI in detail.
It wont happen if we don't at least try!

krash27

[Sandpit]

krash27, on 14 January 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

We need more people supporting these ideas.
With the current direction Russ is taking CW at the encouragement of "solo" players, the game is moving farther and farther from any of these ideas.
Looks like CW might turn into another pug droppers play ground.
I foresee most of CW happening in pug drops and the organized units won't affect much (assuming the two queues affect the same map) being that there are so few of them fighting compared to pug drops. So organised teams will be back at square one, long wait times and sheer boredom.
The side effect of this could be organised teams scrapping CW and group drops all together in favour of 3rd party leagues.

How to show people that these ideas can work to foster a CW community where pug players augment the organized units?

I might have to jump on TS sometime Sandpit, when you guys are discussing such ideas.
I would be more than willing to hash these ideas out with you folks and come up with a viable framework that can be presented to the community and PGI in detail.
It wont happen if we don't at least try!

krash27

the only thing I can honestly think of is keep having everyone who's willing link them to Russ on twitter. Let him know it's more than just a vocal minority that supports this kinda thing.

Charging units to recruit???
Things are getting way off track from what was explained in regards to this community as a whole.