150 replies to this topic

[CainenEX]

TheSilken, on 07 December 2015 - 04:52 PM, said:

Would be nice if you did. Can I put you down for 1 of the slots?

Sure and I will do my best to attend.

[Bows3r]

TheSilken, on 07 December 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

Ok I need to be clear on some stuff here. By "Best of 7" I mean that the winner will be whoever wins 4 of the rounds but all rounds will be played out regardless of how many times the LRMs lose. The only way they will be cut short is if for some reason we run out of time and need to call it off. As of right now I don't think that will happen since we obviously have a lot of people interested in this event (funny considering how stupid it is xD) and so have a surplus of people from which to fill empty slots. Secondly, the maps will be reviewed by Envisage and his team (which includes the LRM vets) who can request that maps be rearranged, swapped out or whatever they want and I will be happy to do so. Thirdly, this exercise is about proving Envisage's theories incorrect, not necessarily purely LRMs. The only strict definition of LRM builds in this is what Envisage himself states that they are instead of going by the communities' idea of what they should be.

Edit: Also the primary people who are going to be players here are Top Tier players since that is what Envisage wants. Everyone else who is not either a high level comp player, notorious public queue player, or a worshiped LRM god, is not getting into play unless slots are empty and need to be filled. I'm not trying to exclude you but the point here is that he said that if used in his tactics/strats that they are viable in Top Tier play and maybe comp play. Because of this I will write down everyone who would like to play up above but unless a slot is empty, and unable to be filled by a player confirmed to be on the level of players such as Celyth, Tarogato, Forge88, or McGral18 for example, then they won't be added in. If the number of these players is great they can always start another Lobby and do the same thing correct?

Edit 2: Still looking for Spectators to stream/record also. If interested in those spots please let me know.

Good to know, thanks.

[Thunder Child]

This actually sounds like an awesome event to watch. Probably going to be more interesting to watch than the official tournament was, too.
Will it only be streamed, or will it go up on youtube or something too?

[TheSilken]

Thunder Child, on 07 December 2015 - 06:31 PM, said:

This actually sounds like an awesome event to watch. Probably going to be more interesting to watch than the official tournament was, too.
Will it only be streamed, or will it go up on youtube or something too?

Streaming is confirmed (CainenEX is gonna do it) and I will make sure that it goes up on YouTube. I still can't believe people actually wanna see this sh*t lol.

Edit: We might even have to see if we can get some giveaway codes at this rate. xD

Edited by TheSilken, 07 December 2015 - 06:59 PM.

[Thunder Child]

TheSilken, on 07 December 2015 - 06:48 PM, said:

Streaming is confirmed (CainenEX is gonna do it) and I will make sure that it goes up on YouTube. I still can't believe people actually wanna see this sh*t lol.

Well, I mainly want to watch it to see how they can hope to use LRMs against a Meta drop list. There might even be tactical movement involved (I haven't watched any recent streams, but during the big PGI event, it was basically two teams humping hills. I don't know if it's changed overly much). I do know that the one or two matches during the PGI event that had Lurm Comp were more interesting in terms of positioning.

It'll also be cool to see the missile trails from a cinematic point of view. Huge torrents of green/blue beams of light just isn't as cool to watch. But beams of light interspersed with AC shells, Gauss slugs, and Clusters of missiles gives it a more traditional feel.

[RunWithRandoms]

This Is an extract from me "shooting my mouth off".

And to para-phase a lot of other stuff "your meta is brain numbingly boring and simply dull strategically". But do read on :-)

Let me enlighten you upon a few facts that come from 3025 Btech, upon which this game was designed. Now, you can say it's different in real time, which of course it IS... but, not that terribly different.

First fact. In megamek stats are taken from all matches in order to adjust BV of said mech. LRM boats always have a lower BV than standard rating. The reason is that an LRM boat is always a poor performer, except in the case of the LongBow, which is an average performer at BEST. Why?

Welllllllll... get your head around this. LRM's are not about damage. They are about area denial and engagement options. They do not work well from one point of fire, as the area denial is SO limited, that it is simply a small annoyance, or just another tactical choice for your opponent amongst the chaff of small considerations. The LongBow on the other hand packed SO many LRM's if used with aggressive positioning was a bit of a beast, although lightly armoured. How did THIS affect it's BV rating being more stable? Well, it was used by the upper tier very rarely, but when used, it was used as MID range LRM's. It was a bait mech with the capacity to punch back hard. Nothing more. LRM boats have always been and always will be rather atrocious.

Mechs that use a single lrm 10-15 or 20, (less so the 20) tended to have inflated BV, this is because when used correctly, they offer optional engagement methods, and tactile battlefield support, as well as area denial. It allows you to control the pace of the game. This is not a game nor is Btech, that HAS to be over in 4 minutes. But you probably don't see that at all, due to your inherent "what I see work is what I do" approach to thinking. The lrm5 is and always was trash... but ****, I'll use it on specifically awkward mechs. I'll share a build with you sometime that's surprisingly effective.

Now your basic concept is that if you take 100 lrms, they are going to sit on 2 mechs. What you need to understand is that 2 points of fire give you no control except over timing. Isolated mechs that can not react tactically, because they are overly specialised in a static role. You are handing your opponent your battle plan on a platter. That is not only unwise, but disrespectful to your opponent. You should never assume the victory enough to think you can just "overwhelm" them. You might aswell say "you're just second rate" to them

If you take 100 lrms in a 12 man lance, you want at least 5-6 points of fire. Yes, this costs tonnage, but not as much as you think. Because these are UTILITY weapons, they don't need a lot of ammo. At ALL. 1-1.5 tonnes at most per mech. Ideally this is spread across differing speeds, with the greater weight of lrms being on the slower mechs. THAT will enable many choices on the field with suppression, timing, support, threat, damage cluster on "protected" mechs etc etc etc.

But I wouldn't recommend 100 in a 12 v 12. rather about 120ish. spread out in uneven clusterings across 6 mechs that combined are capable of creating 200-300 meter spread angular coverage. Ideally one should be FAST... but I'll let you work your mind over WHY.

INCOMING MISSILE! hint hint.

Tell me you have tried, thought of, considered, seen, used, heard of, experimented, dreamt of, or even had a passing JOKE about this set up... Before you comment, take a 12 man and skrim someone. Use it. See for yourself.
Remember, lrm 10's or 15's preferably, 1-1.5 tonnes of ammo. multiple mechs. with preference to one fast flanker and slower mechs taking the tonnage hit to enable this.

Also. TAG is a relatively static fire weapon that shoots from under radar range unless the mech is ECM, most ECM mechs are very light and can be destroyed very fast if they slow down to steady a shot. It's a bloody great big laser pointer saying" HEY I WANT TO DIE". I don't recommend a spotter take it at all. Though you are right in it's application to SRM mechs.

However, further to missile meta, you're going to want to invest even MORE tonnage here. take 4-6 AMS, with 1/2 to 1 tonne of ammo. No more than this no matter what. You don't want a stupid crit location lingering there after all. I'll let you discover it's application if you are willing to test your boundaries and ideas. I know I am... I've been doing it constantly since joining the game.

Further more, NARC is amazing, but it is risky on a light and it also tends to fire on mechs that quickly take cover, whilst the fire line is not in a position to capitalize. Strangely enough, I want you to try NARC on 2 mechs that are heavy to assault, or considered a tank/flank guard/ relatively robust mech.

Edited by Envisage, 07 December 2015 - 07:37 PM.

[TheSilken]

lol

[TheSilken]

Time and date is up. Apparently I overlooked the 5:00pm EST when I made it.

[T0rmented]

should this land when i can attend i can add a second stream

[TheSilken]

T0rmented, on 08 December 2015 - 09:58 AM, said:

should this land when i can attend i can add a second stream

I think a lot of people are gonna be streaming this lol. I know Bows3r is also and probably Solitude. But what I really need is another spectator to do it that way if CainenEX is unable to make it then we have a back up. Or to get another angle, that too.

[Kamikaze Viking]

Stream wise: This event is going to have many many perspectives to watch from.

I wish I could get involved, but thats Monday morning for me.

I have a friend who also swore by having everyone on his team carrying a single LRM launcher with between 10-20 tubes and 1-1.5 tons ammo, plus normal direct fire. his theory was that during the normal course of firing or moving to the brawl zone any available locks would be hit by LRM's from everyone.
We tried it once (back when we were still scrubs trying to form a team) and it failed spectacularly. Many of the people who supported that theory are no longer anywhere near the Isengrim comp team.

But If this is possible to get it to work, then the above list of players will pull it off.
Cant wait to see what mech designs IL MECHWARRIOR comes up with.

[Sturmwind]

This is gonna be hilarious to watch

[Rushin Roulette]

TheSilken, on 07 December 2015 - 01:57 PM, said:

• 4 AMS max total (Meta)

You might want to change this to 4 Mechs with AMS max total. If you plan on taking 3 meta Thunderbolt 5ss, that alone is already 6 AMS.

Im predicting that the matches may be pretty close depending on how the LRM team sets themselves up and how mobile they are going to be. Overall however, Im predicting a landslide win for the meta team.

All it needs for the Meta team is to have a light pack (2ACH to provide ECM and overwrite BAP and 1 SPL Firestarters and the LRM mechs will go down in shars. The rest of the Meta team can be amply covered by the remaining allowed 1-2 ECM mechs (Either laservomit HBR or Laser/Gauss HBRs depending on overall strategy) All that is needed is for the meta team to keep their distance from BAP/UAVs and to keep moving as a coordinated blob while never letting themselves be pinned down.

[BigBaka]

Rushin Roulette, on 09 December 2015 - 04:11 AM, said:

You might want to change this to 4 Mechs with AMS max total. If you plan on taking 3 meta Thunderbolt 5ss, that alone is already 6 AMS.

The 5SS has only one AMS

This will be really hillarious and ugly to watch at the same time lol. Are simply spectator allowed @TheSilken ? I would love to take part but I dont think that I am good enough for you guys and I dont have much expercience in streaming/recording either.

PGI should really organize some of those events on the PTS prior some balancing to see how it will work!

[Rushin Roulette]

BigBaka, on 09 December 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

The 5SS has only one AMS

Ooops. . I guess I had the Stalker 5S in mind... I knew it was something with a 5S in the name.... Not really that the 5S is the meta one from the Stalker options mind you.

[TheSilken]

BigBaka, on 09 December 2015 - 04:43 AM, said:

The 5SS has only one AMS

This will be really hillarious and ugly to watch at the same time lol. Are simply spectator allowed @TheSilken ? I would love to take part but I dont think that I am good enough for you guys and I dont have much expercience in streaming/recording either.

PGI should really organize some of those events on the PTS prior some balancing to see how it will work!

Well due to how the lobby system works there are only 26 slots, 24 players and 2 spectators so there isn't any options besides that since this is a 12v12. I can, however, put you down for a secondary sign up so if a slot opens up (and none of the primary sign ups or their minions is available) you would have a chance to get in and play. Another option is if the remaining spectator slot is not filled you could always use it but not have to record/stream. Lastly, you could simply watch the several streams that plan on covering this event.

Edited by TheSilken, 09 December 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[CainenEX]

Should I bother to link this on reddit?

Would I be able to get a short interview from the leaders of both teams? I'd like to cover both view points so that each opposing camp can share their view point so as to better inform the viewers.

edit: Just saw the time. Think we could push it to 5:30est? I just get off of work at 4. If not i might have to make some BS excuse that my stomach is not feeling well and head home.

Edited by CainenEX, 09 December 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[TheSilken]

CainenEX, on 09 December 2015 - 08:25 AM, said:

Should I bother to link this on reddit?

Would I be able to get a short interview from the leaders of both teams? I'd like to cover both view points so that each opposing camp can share their view point so as to better inform the viewers.

If you want to. You can get an interview from me but I'm not exactly very eloquent. Envisage may be available but you'll have to check with him. Also for the stream I would like it to have a split screen so that people can see multiple streams at once and have the option to go to a specific one if they choose. If you are able to do that that is.

Edited by TheSilken, 09 December 2015 - 08:41 AM.

[BigBaka]

TheSilken, on 09 December 2015 - 08:17 AM, said:

Well due to how the lobby system works there are only 26 slots, 24 players and 2 spectators so there isn't any options besides that since this is a 12v12. I can, however, put you down for a secondary sign up so if a slot opens up (and none of the primary sign ups or there minions is available) you would have a chance to get in and play. Another option is if the remaining spectator slot is not filled you could always use it but not have to record/stream. Lastly, you could simply watch the several streams that plan on covering this event.

Yeah thanks a lot. Spectator view is way better than a simple stream because i like to get the whole situation, how you guys move, shoot and so on

[Jman5]

Quote

• 4 AMS max total (Meta)

Can someone point me to the meta mechs that bring AMS to competition? I don't recall seeing any in the MLMW finals.