51 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

Novakaine, on 07 December 2015 - 04:21 PM, said:

Well ya know I just had to chime in.
And team work is essential for Rocketeers.

That looks like thievery to me!

We all know that the 4J was quirked pretty heavily...how about doing that in a Dragon 5N pre-quirks? Hell, I'd be impressed to see that many kills in a 5N, even with quirks. Keep in mind this screenshot is from September 2014...less than 3 months after Clan Wave 1 rollout.

DarthRevis, on 07 December 2015 - 04:38 PM, said:

Only time is when you have Tonnage and nothing to do with it (larger Engine is always a better choice if possible) or are lacking other equipment and slots due to ammo and need the lock time boost.

While I love the lock time decrease on Artemis, I can't usually justify how much tonnage it adds to 5s...especially considering 5s are boated in multiple numbers usually. 5 tons on a KTO-18 for 5 LRM5s is not worth the lock benefit (especially when I have TAG on there anyway).

5 tons of ammo is 900 LRMs...considering 40% accuracy (my 5s hit at about 43% currently...I don't have any data with ALRM5s), that's about 360 extra damage without using Artemis (assuming you run completely dry). I doubt my quicker lock times with Artemis would offset the extra 360 damage (again, assuming you run completely dry...which isn't a given).

[Lynx7725]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

While I love the lock time decrease on Artemis, I can't usually justify how much tonnage it adds to 5s...especially considering 5s are boated in multiple numbers usually. 5 tons on a KTO-18 for 5 LRM5s is not worth the lock benefit (especially when I have TAG on there anyway).

Artemis is a bit of a tradeoff. After your third launcher, it may be better just to increase the salvo density to compensate for the loss of accuracy. An extra launcher is also useful to up your chainfire RoF.

My Orion-VA mostly fits the bill, with 2 Mlasers (more to scare off lights.. and it works), LRM50, BAP, and 11 tons of ammo. Where it doesn't meet the criteria is XL engine. For solo PUG work it's good, but for CW it's probably too lightly ammo'ed. Frankly, given that it's a 75 tonner, if you are looking for MOAR ammo, it's almost certainly an assault LRM boat, which to be honest I have reservations about.

[Lyoto Machida]

Lynx7725, on 07 December 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Artemis is a bit of a tradeoff. After your third launcher, it may be better just to increase the salvo density to compensate for the loss of accuracy. An extra launcher is also useful to up your chainfire RoF.

My Orion-VA mostly fits the bill, with 2 Mlasers (more to scare off lights.. and it works), LRM50, BAP, and 11 tons of ammo. Where it doesn't meet the criteria is XL engine. For solo PUG work it's good, but for CW it's probably too lightly ammo'ed. Frankly, given that it's a 75 tonner, if you are looking for MOAR ammo, it's almost certainly an assault LRM boat, which to be honest I have reservations about.

Towards the end of the challenge yesterday, I switched up my deck and pulled the 8R and inserted the 1V instead. It's possible to use the LRM Orions in CW but keep in mind that my CW experience is limited to probably less than 30 drops outside of Tukayyid 2 so your results may vary.

That no XL engine criteria is going to make it difficult to bring a lot of LRMs with decent speed to reposition and keep up with the main body. Also, you don't really NEED more than 2k in LRM ammo, so long as you are accurate with your shots...running dry with 2k in ammo is about 800 damage and that doesn't count the use of any non-LRM weapons. I don't do too much suppression firing...mostly to hurt the enemy, but that's the OCD in me trying to keep my LRM accuracy up.

[Lynx7725]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2015 - 05:10 PM, said:

That no XL engine criteria is going to make it difficult to bring a lot of LRMs with decent speed to reposition and keep up with the main body. Also, you don't really NEED more than 2k in LRM ammo, so long as you are accurate with your shots...running dry with 2k in ammo is about 800 damage and that doesn't count the use of any non-LRM weapons. I don't do too much suppression firing...mostly to hurt the enemy, but that's the OCD in me trying to keep my LRM accuracy up.

Well, normally when I empty out the 11 tons of ammo in solo PUG, I score 600~900, which is about par for my LRM accuracy. I do tend to use it a bit indiscriminately, to remind the enemy nicely that keeping in cover (and hence not shooting at us) is a good idea. I don't always run through that amount of ammo though.

For my playstyle, XL engine vulnerability isn't a big issue -- if the enemy is directly hitting me with firepower big enough to threaten the engine, the team has evaporated already. So the weight savings is key enough to swap in the extra ammo and launcher.

I did have -- and a friend of mine ran -- an Orion with XL, LRMs and large lasers, for the LRM/ Brawl combo. I didn't like the heat curve on that thing, so eventually downed the large lasers to meds. Also, Orion has a peculiar side torso vulnerability, so it's not the best brawler, really. That means it's not really that great for CW, since the randomness of the map and mission can mean you end up doing weird jobs.

[Sable]

I know they just came out but the Marauder 5D works pretty well as a timberwolf substitute. 2 ER large, 3 mediums, 2 LRM15s with 4-5 tons of ammo. Requires XL but you've got the range to utilize it pretty well.I also like the TDR-5S with 2 LRM 15s and 4 medium lasers with 2 machine guns and a standard 260. There's also the Orion which can have a very nice mix of weapons although you'd probably need an XL to carry lasers, ballistic, and missiles effectively.

[Nightshade24]

Otto Cannon, on 07 December 2015 - 03:36 PM, said:

CT hardpoints mean you can't use anything more than 2 mpl or a single large. That's why I never use the C4.

Hence my point

[Troutmonkey]

I don't run LRMs on anything right now, but I used to do okay with LRM Stalkers with a medium lasers as back up.

[Novakaine]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

That looks like thievery to me!

We all know that the 4J was quirked pretty heavily...how about doing that in a Dragon 5N pre-quirks? Hell, I'd be impressed to see that many kills in a 5N, even with quirks. Keep in mind this screenshot is from September 2014...less than 3 months after Clan Wave 1 rollout.





While I love the lock time decrease on Artemis, I can't usually justify how much tonnage it adds to 5s...especially considering 5s are boated in multiple numbers usually. 5 tons on a KTO-18 for 5 LRM5s is not worth the lock benefit (especially when I have TAG on there anyway).

5 tons of ammo is 900 LRMs...considering 40% accuracy (my 5s hit at about 43% currently...I don't have any data with ALRM5s), that's about 360 extra damage without using Artemis (assuming you run completely dry). I doubt my quicker lock times with Artemis would offset the extra 360 damage (again, assuming you run completely dry...which isn't a given).

Did you not read the part about teamwork?

Lynx7725, on 07 December 2015 - 04:58 PM, said:

Artemis is a bit of a tradeoff. After your third launcher, it may be better just to increase the salvo density to compensate for the loss of accuracy. An extra launcher is also useful to up your chainfire RoF.

My Orion-VA mostly fits the bill, with 2 Mlasers (more to scare off lights.. and it works), LRM50, BAP, and 11 tons of ammo. Where it doesn't meet the criteria is XL engine. For solo PUG work it's good, but for CW it's probably too lightly ammo'ed. Frankly, given that it's a 75 tonner, if you are looking for MOAR ammo, it's almost certainly an assault LRM boat, which to be honest I have reservations about.

Naw the VA is monster in CW I run it as part of my drop deck all the time.

Edited by Novakaine, 07 December 2015 - 08:34 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

did somebody say IS LRM/LAser combos......?

Novakaine, on 07 December 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Did you not read the part about teamwork?





Naw the VA is monster in CW I run it as part of my drop deck all the time.

I love my VA, but I made mine an SRM4x4/AC10 brawler.

[Alistair Winter]

Plenty of assaults fit the bill.

• Awesome
  
• Zeus
  
• Battlemaster
  
• Stalker
  
• Highlander
  
• Mauler

Heavy mechs...

• Archer (coming soon)

Medium mechs:

• Griffin
  
• Kintaro

The Catapult and Hunchback have already been mentioned.

Now, you have to accept that a good distribution between lasers and LRMs is not very effective in the current state of the game. You'll generally get more results by boating one or the other. The best Awesome LRM-carrier, for example, is the AWS-8R with TAG, 2 lasers and 4 LRM launchers. You can play the AWS-8T or 8V, to get a more even distribution of weapons. But you have to be prepared that you'll most likely do less damage and get less kills.

If you're asking whether you should pick the Highlander, Stalker, Awesome or Battlemaster, I'd say it's a coin toss. Depends more on your personal preferences than their actual abilities. If you've already decided to go with a sub-par mech and a sub-par build, my suggestion is to just pick whichever you think looks coolest.

No matter what, you're probably going to die more than with the "competitive" builds. You may as well look good doing it.

[VirtualRiot]

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...187677ea5e8b27e

Best LRM mech I have ever run.
Its fast
it jumps
its cool
its got ecm
its got artemis
its got high hardpoints
its got tonnes of ammo
its got decent backup weapons
boom badaboom baby I pull 500+ dmg every match with this bad boi

oh and is LRM 5 plus arty is by far the best LRM launcher in the game
http://mwomercs.com/...09#entry4676509

Edited by VirtualRiot, 07 December 2015 - 09:18 PM.

[JaxRiot]

For an Assault IS Missile boat I would suggest the Stalker 3F

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06bf30378352695[/smurfy]

It has BAP, TAG, its own AMS, 4 Med Lasers, 2 LRM 15's, 2 LRM 10's, and just shy of 2000 rounds of shake their teeth out LRMs.

Its a beast for sure

Edited by JaxRiot, 07 December 2015 - 09:24 PM.

[Vickinator]

Ahh the wonders of Tier 5

[Lyoto Machida]

Novakaine, on 07 December 2015 - 08:35 PM, said:

Did you not read the part about teamwork?





Naw the VA is monster in CW I run it as part of my drop deck all the time.

I can't believe you and Lynx are still white knighting the VA...everyone sensible knows the V is where it's at. VA was fun for the longer range LRMs but they took that away. Btw...DeadlyFred and TwitchPit were not grouped with us. Just two ON1-Vs wrecking shop before the great ECM horde was released...

Alistair Winter, on 07 December 2015 - 08:46 PM, said:

Plenty of assaults fit the bill.

• Awesome
  
• Zeus
  
• Battlemaster
  
• Stalker
  
• Highlander
  
• Mauler

Heavy mechs...

• Archer (coming soon)

Medium mechs:

• Griffin
  
• Kintaro

The Catapult and Hunchback have already been mentioned.




Now, you have to accept that a good distribution between lasers and LRMs is not very effective in the current state of the game. You'll generally get more results by boating one or the other. The best Awesome LRM-carrier, for example, is the AWS-8R with TAG, 2 lasers and 4 LRM launchers. You can play the AWS-8T or 8V, to get a more even distribution of weapons. But you have to be prepared that you'll most likely do less damage and get less kills.

If you're asking whether you should pick the Highlander, Stalker, Awesome or Battlemaster, I'd say it's a coin toss. Depends more on your personal preferences than their actual abilities. If you've already decided to go with a sub-par mech and a sub-par build, my suggestion is to just pick whichever you think looks coolest.

No matter what, you're probably going to die more than with the "competitive" builds. You may as well look good doing it.

No XL engines, remember?

VirtualRiot, on 07 December 2015 - 09:15 PM, said:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...187677ea5e8b27e

Best LRM mech I have ever run.
Its fast
it jumps
its cool
its got ecm
its got artemis
its got high hardpoints
its got tonnes of ammo
its got decent backup weapons
boom badaboom baby I pull 500+ dmg every match with this bad boi

oh and is LRM 5 plus arty is by far the best LRM launcher in the game
http://mwomercs.com/...09#entry4676509

So you never ran a quirked 4J or AWE-8R/BLR-1S when LRMs were good before, I take it? Also, ALRM5 is a waste of tonnage, but to each his own...

Wait until people catch on to the ECM change and start running AMS. Your 5s are gonna get chewed up unless you alpha the LRMs, which kinda takes away the benefit of constant screen shake.

Yesterday during the challenge, I was dropping with a mixed group of Kuritans from other units on the HK teamspeak. Someone suggested that we all equip AMS on our mechs...nothing came through from the air in an arc, that's for sure. Interestingly enough, the 2N was part of my drop deck for the challenge but I don't see it as anything special in terms of LRM mechs...works well enough, though.

JaxRiot, on 07 December 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

For an Assault IS Missile boat I would suggest the Stalker 3F

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06bf30378352695[/smurfy]

It has BAP, TAG, its own AMS, 4 Med Lasers, 2 LRM 15's, 2 LRM 10's, and just shy of 2000 rounds of shake their teeth out LRMs.

Its a beast for sure

Except the max tube count is not great...too streamy for me. It does rattle the crap out of the target though. Hitting someone with 4x15 at once used to destroy things pretty nicely before ghost heat...never really got into the Stalker (and CLRMs) because of the stream.

[Y E O N N E]

JaxRiot, on 07 December 2015 - 09:24 PM, said:

For an Assault IS Missile boat I would suggest the Stalker 3F

[smurfy]http://mwo.smurfy-ne...06bf30378352695[/smurfy]

It has BAP, TAG, its own AMS, 4 Med Lasers, 2 LRM 15's, 2 LRM 10's, and just shy of 2000 rounds of shake their teeth out LRMs.

Its a beast for sure

XL...why would you do that? There's not much reason to run an LRM launcher bigger than 10 and you can comfortably fit four 10s with ~1620 ammo in a STD 300, let alone a STD 280.

[Lynx7725]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

I can't believe you and Lynx are still white knighting the VA...everyone sensible knows the V is where it's at. VA was fun for the longer range LRMs but they took that away.

Eh? Not so much white knighting the VA. VA lost the long range anyway, but got missile velocity and missile heat gen.
Missile Cooldown +25% Missile Velocity +10% Missile Heat Gen -10%

V gain a tiny bit of missile cooldown. So VA has more missile buffs now.
Missile Cooldown +15%

VA combined with missile cooldown module has an excellent throw rate. Just hot, even with the missile heat gen quirk.

[Bishop Steiner]

Lynx7725, on 07 December 2015 - 10:56 PM, said:

Eh? Not so much white knighting the VA. VA lost the long range anyway, but got missile velocity and missile heat gen.
Missile Cooldown +25% Missile Velocity +10% Missile Heat Gen -10%

V gain a tiny bit of missile cooldown. So VA has more missile buffs now.
Missile Cooldown +15%

VA combined with missile cooldown module has an excellent throw rate. Just hot, even with the missile heat gen quirk.

throws 16 SRMs quite nicely, though, with the uptick from 3 to 4 launchers on Ghost Heat. LRMs? Well, I always found the arms gave nice trajectories.

[Lynx7725]

Bishop Steiner, on 07 December 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:

throws 16 SRMs quite nicely, though, with the uptick from 3 to 4 launchers on Ghost Heat. LRMs? Well, I always found the arms gave nice trajectories.

Night sky does light up nicely with LRMs. Not one of my best matches, but I did get to crap on Sean Lang a bit.

[KinLuu]

Might I suggest the King Crab?

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...a37c89caa0130f8

If you go for a smaller engine, you can get your 2k of ammo. But I would not suggest it. A second variation would be to go for MLas:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ca19d7141b1c2d4

Less range on your secondaries, but space for a BAP, more ammo and more heatsinks.

Jut do not lose your ammo-arm...

[Alistair Winter]

Lyoto Machida, on 07 December 2015 - 10:47 PM, said:

No XL engines, remember?

Oh snap. Well, that's going to severely handicap his firepower, but I don't think any of the mechs I listed are particularly incompatible with STD engines.

With these severe limitations, it's almost like asking "What's the best light mech for running 2xAC2?" The answer is: If you've already decided to run 2xAC2 on a light mech, you may as well just pick one and go with it. Firestarter, Huginn, Panther, it ultimately doesn't matter that much.