56 replies to this topic

[Black Fish]

Seriously, I still only see laser vomit builds... now with the Gauss nerf things just reverted to pure laser vomit builds... Clan UACs are perfect for brawling (yes it's not PPFLD but the hammering effect helps with brawling) and SRMs have been buffed, and if that's not enough C-ERSL and C-SPL are still very effective weapons.
All I see are laser vomit builds that get heat scale penalties and overheat... I say try to explore, try mixed weapons, I do that with my IS 'Mechs and it works great! takes getting used to ofcourse, but I find brawling much more fun and skill-intense.

[ScreamingSkull]

I see plenty of Lurm vomit. I don't see the problem here. Lurms and ECM are very balanaced atm. Yep, totally happy about the lurm vomit.


But yeah, more on topic. Most players don't bring brawler builds into CW because while they're (imo) more fun and you will probably get a couple solo kills depending on your mech, you won't do the damage that a sniper/laser vomit or ******* MAD DOG will do.

[Vxheous]

It is because CW is about Wave control and maximizing your damage, while minimizing return damage.While brawling can be effective at killing mechs, it is not so effective at avoiding return fire, while laser vomit builds can play peek and poke very effectively and done right, can mitigate a lot of return fire. In public queue, it does not matter so much because you only need to kill 12 mechs to win, so brawling and killing 12 mechs while being almost virtually dead yourself does not really matter, while in CW, if my team can kill an entire wave, and still be at 60-70%, and start doing damage well into the opponent's second wave, my team has secured a huge lead that is usually insurmountable.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 08 December 2015 - 03:18 AM.

[ThisOneDiesALot]

well i guess brawl is dead due to the skill nerf. i takes ages to turn around. its a pain in the bottom to brawl with your mech now. after the "noob need to feel good patch" its for pros even *easier* to go laser vomit. all they need to do is to be a turret on legs and wait for someone to pop out. whoever it will be, he won't have enough time to get back into cover without losing the trade anyway. so why brawl?

also about CW brawl: not gonna happen with pugs. because if you wanna brawl with pugs in CW the outcome is that you will be the only one somewhere around while all your "teammates" hanging back watching you being slaughtered instead of pushing with you.

[El Bandito]

Clanners forgot how to brawl after meta-ing for too long.

More seriously, range is still king. More mechs can focus a single target, the longer their range is.

Edited by El Bandito, 08 December 2015 - 03:23 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Because brawling takes more skills than just point and click?

It's just easier to be effective at laser vomit than it is to brawl.

[STEF_]

I'm a pure brawler, and yes, clam brawl very well, indeed.

I don't particularly like the laser builds, too

[Hit the Deck]

Although effective, people need an incentive to bring a brawling loadout because of its limitation.

Technically speaking, they usually brawl when piloting their Cheetah.

[TexAce]

Because they overheat by barfing laser alphas all the time.

Which is great for me and my AC20, but shhh..

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Hit the Deck, on 08 December 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

Although effective, people need an incentive to bring a brawling loadout because of its limitation.

Technically speaking, they usually brawl when piloting their Cheetah.

Nah that's turn and burn fighting, using speed to stay out of their line of fine while landing shots.

As opposed to boom and zoom fighting where you hit hard and then run off before they can respond to cool down.

[Appogee]

Because they don't need to.

[Lily from animove]

because stream AC's are bad at brawling. because many of our mechs have stupid fixed equipment not able to brawl (additional DHS which are a waste on many B builds). zeppeling nose designs on many clanmechs are not good at hiding ST's and CT's as humanoid shaped ones where arms can block when twisting. worse beamduration.
CERML may cause more damage, but they are less heatefficient as downside to the "ER" in them. which makes get heatroubles. IS MPL's and ML have quite an advantage when you twist fire twist like a discoball flahsing your lights.

So brawling can be made a lot more efficient in IS mechs.

Edited by Lily from animove, 08 December 2015 - 03:33 AM.

[Ey3cD34Dppl]

...because IS players are usually not encouraged enough to force em to.

Besides that my impression is that because of this very reason the most part of the IS players feel like the Clan Mechs are "overpowered" and the other way around if IS players understand their job.

That is why I really want to see close combat attacks like melee, punching and kicking on the IS side implemented in the game. Clans dont do that. Maybe this would encourage IS players more than the constant quirking and tweaking and most of all.... complaining.

From the Clan perspective we are the dishonorable IS scum. So please PGI let us play that way. Maybe this would give u some time for days off as u are not in the need for "quirk adjustments".

Just my 2 and a half cents (can't afford more)

Ey3

[Black Fish]

Just for the record I'm going to get into Clans with this Shadowcat I hope it wont suck that bad

[KinLuu]

Why should I brawl with clan mechs, if they perform far better at medium range and there are IS mechs that brawl far better?

[Curccu]

Black Fish, on 08 December 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Seriously, I still only see laser vomit builds... now with the Gauss nerf things just reverted to pure laser vomit builds... Clan UACs are perfect for brawling (yes it's not PPFLD but the hammering effect helps with brawling) and SRMs have been buffed, and if that's not enough C-ERSL and C-SPL are still very effective weapons.
All I see are laser vomit builds that get heat scale penalties and overheat... I say try to explore, try mixed weapons, I do that with my IS 'Mechs and it works great! takes getting used to ofcourse, but I find brawling much more fun and skill-intense.

are you talking about solo, group or CW queue?
if solo: well take brawler and oh.. you are only brawler in whole game --> you are screwed...
if group: your whole team takes brawl... current meta is mid-long range --> your are screwed...
if CW: there is 12man ER/LL deck against you --> you are screwed...

Oh and I like brawling and dare to say I'm pretty good at it but current meta and map design doesn't support it very much.
PS. I'm not so called clanner, just a mechwarrior who plays both sides.

[Vellron2005]

Black Fish, on 08 December 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Seriously, I still only see laser vomit builds... now with the Gauss nerf things just reverted to pure laser vomit builds... Clan UACs are perfect for brawling (yes it's not PPFLD but the hammering effect helps with brawling) and SRMs have been buffed, and if that's not enough C-ERSL and C-SPL are still very effective weapons.
All I see are laser vomit builds that get heat scale penalties and overheat... I say try to explore, try mixed weapons, I do that with my IS 'Mechs and it works great! takes getting used to ofcourse, but I find brawling much more fun and skill-intense.

Laser vomit IS brawling..unless you're using ERLL's.. then it's sniping..

Brawling is any direct-fire engagement happening in short to medium range..

And I would much rather go into that range knowing I'm not likely to run out of ammo any time soon. And if I overheat.. well.. that's my own damn fault.

But yes, some changes have happened, but to be honest, the Tukayyid event was not a good opportunity for much experimentation, instead I personally went with tried and true builds. (on one occasion, that cost me a full dropdeck, but hey, that's how I learn)

It is only now that I'll have the time to actually try something new. Clan honor is secure. Time for new things and 59 milion cbills to spend..

[Navid A1]

ScreamingSkull, on 08 December 2015 - 03:12 AM, said:

I see plenty of Lurm vomit. I don't see the problem here. Lurms and ECM are very balanaced atm. Yep, totally happy about the lurm vomit.


But yeah, more on topic. Most players don't bring brawler builds into CW because while they're (imo) more fun and you will probably get a couple solo kills depending on your mech, you won't do the damage that a sniper/laser vomit or ******* MAD DOG will do.

In what dark server do you play?
Lurm vomit?
i mean...Lurms?
that weapon system is extinct.

[Luca M Pryde]

Black Fish, on 08 December 2015 - 03:08 AM, said:

Seriously, I still only see laser vomit builds... now with the Gauss nerf things just reverted to pure laser vomit builds... Clan UACs are perfect for brawling (yes it's not PPFLD but the hammering effect helps with brawling) and SRMs have been buffed, and if that's not enough C-ERSL and C-SPL are still very effective weapons.
All I see are laser vomit builds that get heat scale penalties and overheat... I say try to explore, try mixed weapons, I do that with my IS 'Mechs and it works great! takes getting used to ofcourse, but I find brawling much more fun and skill-intense.

Its the same with IS. Ballistics and missiles are nowhere near as common as lasers on builds. What I find annoying is the speed and size of the AC and PPC bullets. They always seem to hit the environment where lasers don't. If you have high ping its even harder trying to hit the enemy with PPCs and ACs. If this wasn't such a problem lasers wouldn't be so good.

[Paigan]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 08 December 2015 - 03:16 AM, said:

It is because CW is about Wave control and maximizing your damage, while minimizing return damage.While brawling can be effective at killing mechs, it is not so effective at avoiding return fire, while laser vomit builds can play peek and poke very effectively and done right, can mitigate a lot of return fire. In public queue, it does not matter so much because you only need to kill 12 mechs to win, so brawling and killing 12 mechs while being almost virtually dead yourself does not really matter, while in CW, if my team can kill an entire wave, and still be at 60-70%, and start doing damage well into the opponent's second wave, my team has secured a huge lead that is usually insurmountable.

This.

Also, one very simple tactical rule that applies to almost any game or tactical situation in general:

Range is for the smart.
Brawl (Melee) is for the dumb.

It is really that simple and I am sorry if I insult a lot of you brawling fans.

Look at reality:
A berserker with an axe: not very effective, not to speak of efficient.
A sniper hidden in the distance: WOW!

Or precision long distance air strikes vs. infantry / tank slaughtering.
The very BASIC rule of battle is to have as much range as possible. Ideally more than your enemy.
If you don't like that basic rule, don't engage in battle situations. Play candy crush instead or something else.

Look at MWO:
The smartest thing you can do is build a proper firing line with 234353453 ERLLs and instantly melt any enemy mech on sight.
Running around with AC20s, SRMs, and what not ... far less efficient and effective. You block each other, damage each other, get outranged and outsmarted by fast long range mechs. It looks cool, but it will never win against a proper long range enemy of equal force.

Only if the terrain is especially "tailored" for brawling does it ever get near viability and occasionally even superior.

But in general, the rule is: "combat = range"

Edited by Paigan, 08 December 2015 - 04:08 AM.