60 replies to this topic

[AssaultPig]

this whole deal where marginal games decide they want to 'be an esport' is really stupid.

Create a compelling game and the competitive scene will take care of itself; trying to drum one up essentially for marketing purposes has always failed before and will continue to fail in the future.

MWO can't be an esport in its current incarnation because its gamemodes create anticompetitive incentives; witness the tournaments PGI did a while back, in which there were a bunch of 1-0 matches where teams humped hills for 15 minutes. Think that'll be a hit stream on MLG?

[Johnny Z]

Karamarka, on 10 December 2015 - 02:26 AM, said:

Even if it doesn't go full blown Esport

it's still good because it enforces balance changes.

Yep. I will use tennis again as an example. Tennis as it is, both players have rules to follow about using a raquet and such. Both players themselves can be entirely different in skill, style, endurance, speed, etc.(pilot and mech qualities)

Now is it fun to watch if one player was given a howitzer and the other a tennis racquet?

Tennis is also a good example about asymmetrical balance. Sometimes one player has the sun in his eyes, he has to deal with that before they switch sides. Sometimes the wind is favourable or not. Tennis is also played on different surfaces like pavement, clay, grass. Some players do better on some surfaces and not others.

The crowd can also play a role.

Point is giving one player a howitzer and the other a tennis racquet ruins all those game play elements.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 December 2015 - 02:51 PM.

[MechaBattler]

PerfectDuck, on 12 December 2015 - 02:25 PM, said:

PGI has been sponsoring several community-run competitive events by providing prize incentives for the winners.

He made it sound like they were doing something that was to the detriment of the rest of the game.

[MischiefSC]

Game would need balanced first.

That's been put of for 3 years.

It would involve making real changes and backing out bad changes from prior.

None of that is going to happen.

[Drunk Canuck]

There is still work to be done to make all weapons more balanced. You can't have a competitive game where half of the weapons aren't viable.

[ThisOneDiesALot]

Antares102, on 09 December 2015 - 12:23 PM, said:

Furthermore there is not a lot fun in watching positional trench-warfare like fighting when e.g. top tier MRBC units fighting OR watching death balls vaporizing themselfves within 45 sec.
Again due to you-die-you're-dead mechanics you either risks nothing or go one time all-in.
I guess respawning could also solve the deathball problem but we aint gettin' it.

also, the dec 1st noob patch took out any dynamics out of the game. from now on, the team wins that has the better turrets on wheels. but hey, people also watch chess. so i guess the guys who enjoy this will also enjoy MWO.

i do not want to say that chess is boring or anything. but MWO right now is chess. or probably hearthstone...? something like this where reflexes/muscle memory isn't needed.

[ThisOneDiesALot]

MechaBattler, on 09 December 2015 - 07:41 PM, said:

But they haven't done much to cater to the e-sport demographic. That update they did for the spectator mode was really it. Was there something else?

the dec 1st patch did something to esport demographic. it lowered it even more

Edited by ThisOneDiesALot, 13 December 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

To be worthy of E-sport you must not use servers hired from Fast Eddie, which feature a disconnect from each team, every other match..

You must actually have a system, which allows the matches to be watched by the masses, not a live feed to watch a bunch of fat sweaty geeks, in front of a PC, that their parents assigned to the basement, and sigh sadly each time a relation mentions their name.

You must actually have a population, higher than surviving Siberian tigers in the wild.

[DaFrog]

dam my bad, Ithought it said the path to becoming an ESCORT...

[MountainCopper]

You can't build an eSports entity onto a game as buggy as this. Look at Netcode for one thing.

Edited by GoldenFleece, 13 December 2015 - 12:47 PM.

[DAYLEET]

Why isnt it called eCompetition? Sport shouldnt be used for things out-of-shape people can do.

[EgoSlayer]

MischiefSC, on 13 December 2015 - 02:13 AM, said:

Game would need balanced first.

That's been put of for 3 years.

It would involve making real changes and backing out bad changes from prior.

None of that is going to happen.

Drunk Canuck, on 13 December 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

There is still work to be done to make all weapons more balanced. You can't have a competitive game where half of the weapons aren't viable.

While this is true for general play, in competition as long as both teams have access to and are using the same equipment it isn't imbalanced.

If say the LPL/MPL Timber wolf was *the* meta mech to play, and both teams are playing 12 of them, where is the imbalance? It makes it boring and limits the choices, but it's really not an imbalance.

It all depends on what rules they enforce to create diversity which could create imbalance by forcing choices that are sub par.
But even still those forced imbalances are in equal effect on both teams, so relative to each other there isn't an imbalance between the teams, just imbalance within what makes up each team.

Not saying things shouldn't be better balanced, but at a competition where people are working under the same set of rules, running the same equipment/meta the imbalance in the game is practically non-existent.

Except for the maps. There are some really crappy map/spawn designs that put teams at a disadvantage from the start. That can be controlled by not using these maps.

[Mystere]

Johnny Z, on 12 December 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Point is giving one player a howitzer and the other a tennis racquet ruins all those game play elements.

Yes, Clan lasers are howitzers compared to the IS' tennis rackets.

[MischiefSC]

EgoSlayer, on 13 December 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

While this is true for general play, in competition as long as both teams have access to and are using the same equipment it isn't imbalanced.

If say the LPL/MPL Timber wolf was *the* meta mech to play, and both teams are playing 12 of them, where is the imbalance? It makes it boring and limits the choices, but it's really not an imbalance.

It all depends on what rules they enforce to create diversity which could create imbalance by forcing choices that are sub par.
But even still those forced imbalances are in equal effect on both teams, so relative to each other there isn't an imbalance between the teams, just imbalance within what makes up each team.

Not saying things shouldn't be better balanced, but at a competition where people are working under the same set of rules, running the same equipment/meta the imbalance in the game is practically non-existent.

Except for the maps. There are some really crappy map/spawn designs that put teams at a disadvantage from the start. That can be controlled by not using these maps.

Except that broken game balance makes a painfully shallow and stale meta for comp play.

Variety in mechs, loadouts, etc is what MWO has over games like CS:GO. If bad balance reduces that to 3 options it defeats that purpose.

Broken balance defeats the reason to play mwo instead of another game. Also most comp teams are not keen on investing in a game that the devs will leave broken mechanics in for years. Why invest that much effort in a game that the devs don't invest in?

[Sandpit]

SC2 has a "free form" spectator tool that allows you to see everyone.

Other than that I liked the post. I'd suggest that they add a spectator view of some kind for tourneys (only place SC2 uses it btw, the rest are simply commentating on a recorded replay and irrelevant)

You also need a smaller (4v4 anyone?) field of combatants. Mechs live a lot longer than "people" in FPS games normally, so you speed up the actual fights be dropping number of combatants, dropping them in an arean (just like they did with the SOlaris seasons in the MW series), and let them go to town. Heck at 4 man teams you can go on up to 4 teams of 4 going at it.

There's all types of things that can easily be done to put a little more into the Esports side.
(PGI, this is all being said under the knowledge and implication that CW isn't being tossed on a "back burner" for this)

If any of thise requires CW and such to be "delayed", screw that. Finsish up before starting a new project. I dont' see it conflicting though as it should require very little actual coding and such.

[axe64]

ok i got a idea what if theres a solaris styled mode for tournaments like some one said the map will be smaller and symmetrical with teams limited to maybe 4v4 like some people said allready smaller sized battles make it easier to watch

but then i thought didnt see as i glanced through the posts people mention being able to bet on teams with cbills and i toought this idea would make it better to spectate and you care a little more about iut

Edited by axe64, 13 December 2015 - 03:25 PM.

[Moldur]

I cannot recall a strong desire for MWO being an e-sport to have ever existed within the community. It is something PGI is forcing entirely.

People are always talking about lore, balance for PUGs, and the idea of a singleplayer. Think of Counter-Strike or DOTA. People don't care about its lore or story, nor is there a strong desire for a singleplayer. It's all about that comp game.
Besides general game balance, it's almost the opposite of what most MWO forum goers seem to be concerned about.

[Sandpit]

Moldur, on 13 December 2015 - 03:27 PM, said:

I cannot recall a strong desire for MWO being an e-sport to have ever existed within the community. It is something PGI is forcing entirely.

People are always talking about lore, balance for PUGs, and the idea of a singleplayer. Think of Counter-Strike or DOTA. People don't care about its lore or story, nor is there a strong desire for a singleplayer. It's all about that comp game.
Besides general game balance, it's almost the opposite of what most MWO forum goers seem to be concerned about.

Don't take for granted that those of us "not calling for it", aren't interested in it and want to participate. It's just not been a high priority for many honestly.

PGI has been planning Esports for a very long time. They've discussed it, hinted at it, etc. in front of and behind the scenes.

The complaints were never really "We dont' want Esports", the complaints were, as most times, "Finish what you started and stop jerking us around on the game development before you pour more resources into a new area"

[MW Waldorf Statler]

The Solaris Gaming World in the BT Universe is perfect for Esport ! this is a very littel element of The BT Universe.BT is combined warfare , most Parts have classic Wartech like Tanks, Helis, Infantry, Ships, Jetfighters, Aerotechfighters, Submarines, Mechs a small Element of the warfare .We will a Only ArenaFight Mode in a Star Wars Game

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 01 July 2016 - 02:33 AM.

[Davegt27]

Wow a lot of those names in this thread we don’t see anymore