23 replies to this topic

[Thor Sten]

I play mostly light scouts in the "normal" game modes as a PUG. I'm not that bad there (Matchscores' about 200 are usual, 400 is possible but rare), however I'm having real problems "fitting in" in CW.

Besides having problems getting the minimum-tonnage, scouting doesn't really seem worthwhile in CW. Well there's 3 gates (guess where the enemies' coming from). Spotting doesn't seem worthwhile (even fewer people seem to carry LRMs in CW than in normal games). The maps, don't really give the oppoturnity to sneak into enemy-territory to fall in their backs either.

Can someone give me a few hints, how to contribute as a Scout in CW or should I just forget using my Lolcusts and Jenners when trying CW?

[pwnface]

A "scout" is only part of your role as a light mech, contributing to the team by putting down effective damage is just as important. I'd recommend trying to run a few ERLL on your scout mech so you can get information on the enemy location and harass them before they get to your team.

[sycocys]

There really isn't any need for much scouting currently in CW. Nothing that a faster medium or heavy couldn't do better at anyhow.
The maps are too small and the only marginal use for checking out gate approaches is negate by the fact that the maps are too small and gates are far to close together. On 4 maps the gates are nearly directly on top of each other to the point it barely makes sense to have more than 1 gate. On the one with 3 gates it still doesn't really matter except in counter attack because the gate tells the defending team when its being opened.

So if you are bringing a light - best options still are ecm cover assistance (still mildly useful) or some variation of a brawling build.

[PFC Carsten]

What pwnface said. Pure scouting does not make much sense on many maps (with the exception of Vitric Forge I'd say) especially when you're not part of a premade team, where there indeed might be a LRM boat or two if they are so inclined.

ERLL are the way to go on scouts, making them small snipers. Target Information Gather module helps as welll as advanced Zoom in order to quickly identify weak spots and exploit them, removing limbs or taking out suspicously quick IS-heavies' side torsi.

[Sandpit]

Thor Sten, on 09 December 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I play mostly light scouts in the "normal" game modes as a PUG. I'm not that bad there (Matchscores' about 200 are usual, 400 is possible but rare), however I'm having real problems "fitting in" in CW.

Besides having problems getting the minimum-tonnage, scouting doesn't really seem worthwhile in CW. Well there's 3 gates (guess where the enemies' coming from). Spotting doesn't seem worthwhile (even fewer people seem to carry LRMs in CW than in normal games). The maps, don't really give the oppoturnity to sneak into enemy-territory to fall in their backs either.

Can someone give me a few hints, how to contribute as a Scout in CW or should I just forget using my Lolcusts and Jenners when trying CW?

oh I have to disagree here.
A good scout in CW can effectively turn the entire battle around.

Giving direct LoS for your lurm support
Calling out locations so firing lines can shift instead of getting flanked and rolled up
Launching UAVs right on their heads
Dropping well placed arty and air
Providing quick mobile ECM support

Patience is a huge difference in CW, especially in scouting. I may go an entire 5 minutes without ever shooting at a mech so I don't give my position away if I'm in a good spot and we're raining down lurms on their heads due to my targeting.

By the same token, I may rarely shoot at mechs early on because I'm hunkered down taking potshots while providing those 3 assault mechs ECM cover so they can close and brawl without getting chewed up by the enemy's long range support.

My favorite scout is the ecm Spider with tag and 1 ERLL

It can quickly provide any kind of support on the field that is needed from targeting to distracting and poke from extremely long range.

[Bud Crue]

Its not scouting so much as spotting. In CW there are only a couple of ways the enemy is going to approach or be approached (3 on sulfurous!). Once that is determined you quickly transition to a sniper or a flanker. Call targets and be a pain in the rear (perhaps literally).

[pwnface]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 03:19 PM, said:

oh I have to disagree here.
A good scout in CW can effectively turn the entire battle around.

Giving direct LoS for your lurm support
Calling out locations so firing lines can shift instead of getting flanked and rolled up
Launching UAVs right on their heads
Dropping well placed arty and air
Providing quick mobile ECM support

Patience is a huge difference in CW, especially in scouting. I may go an entire 5 minutes without ever shooting at a mech so I don't give my position away if I'm in a good spot and we're raining down lurms on their heads due to my targeting.

By the same token, I may rarely shoot at mechs early on because I'm hunkered down taking potshots while providing those 3 assault mechs ECM cover so they can close and brawl without getting chewed up by the enemy's long range support.

My favorite scout is the ecm Spider with tag and 1 ERLL

It can quickly provide any kind of support on the field that is needed from targeting to distracting and poke from extremely long range.

Marik's reliance on LRMs is the single biggest contributing factor to why Kurita absolutely crushed them in CW beta 1. The purple birds were too used to LRM battles against soft Davion teams and couldn't handle the wrath of the Dragon!

Scouting is useful to find the enemy, once the enemy is spotted you need to start doing as much damage as possible. Scouting no longer applies once the enemy has been scouted.

[Sandpit]

pwnface, on 09 December 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

Marik's reliance on LRMs is the single biggest contributing factor to why Kurita absolutely crushed them in CW beta 1. The purple birds were too used to LRM battles against soft Davion teams and couldn't handle the wrath of the Dragon!

Scouting is useful to find the enemy, once the enemy is spotted you need to start doing as much damage as possible. Scouting no longer applies once the enemy has been scouted.

?
uhm first and foremost, you sound like one of those guys complaining about PGI touching them 3 years ago lol

Seriously. You don't play in our drops and I dont' remember playing against you so honestly you have zero insight on our tactics and builds

if that's your take on scouting then so be it. Now we know

I dont' agree but a circular argument over your opinion on the matter isn't going to go anywhere but circles

You have your style of play and I have mine. I do well with mine, you do well with yours. Simply because you play a different style doesn't render another player's insights and experiences irrelevant. The reason I'm responding in this way is because you chose to single out my response in helping a new(ish) player get some more advice and tips on how to increase their effectiveness as a scout as opposed to
"Well this is what I do"

I in no way implied that anyone else's information was "bad" or "wrong", because I understand that my interpretation of the game and my personal experience in the game will vary from someone else's.

Just FYI, we MIGHT have 1-2 lurms on our team most times if we even have that many. Your much vaunted Kuritan intelligence is flawed sir

[Thor Sten]

Thanks for your input. I'll give it a thought and a few new tries.

[Urfin]

If you're playing with pugs or against pugs, scouts aren't all that useful or needed, and you're better off with a heavy.

With teams, however, getting more info sooner is quite valuable, but I wouldn't say it really requires a light specifically, tho it does help on vitric. Also, scout or not, he has to contribute aggro/damage, especially for fully coordinated fights, and if he's doing that, he typically ain't scouting much more than the others. A good light pilot who can both quickly eyeball enemy pushes/which side they're heavy on right now/etc. and fight properly is a big asset, but if he can only do one of those things, I'd rather have him in a medium/heavy.

So yeah, a dedicated scout is nice to have in this game, but if it's a light, he has to work twice as hard, and being able to assess the situation quickly and relay that info to the DC in a timely manner is generally way more useful than any specific mech or setup.

Edited by Urfin, 10 December 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[HelBound]

I was once where you are now, a light pilot trying to fit in with a CW team.

You are right, the lights don't have much use in CW except perhaps in the final drop. You are slightly more useful if you can provide ECM and for that the IS Raven is king. However to be effective you really need a deck of heavier mechs.

I started out with a 3 Centurion and raven drop deck. Each centurion was as quick as I could make it to match my playing style.
But I eventually filled out my heavy and assault deck. I never pilot heavies or assault mechs when pugging, really don't care for them when your in random disorganized team.

Now I tend to run faster moving heavies with a medium or light in reserve. With the way CW maps are laid out a fast moving heavy scout is more useful then a speedy light. But then....I am steiner.

[demoyn]

Sandpit, on 09 December 2015 - 03:52 PM, said:

Seriously. You don't play in our drops and I dont' remember playing against you so honestly you have zero insight on our tactics and builds

Oh yeah? Well what if someone had been Marik for two years and left because he just got fed up with Marik being stupid and using losing tactics; primarily LRMs? Yeah... I was in your drops (maybe not you personally, but certainly the people in your group). Yeah, I know your builds. He's absolutely right, they suck.

If you want to help new players, stop suggesting anything regarding LRMs other than "they suck don't ever use them". Anything else is just stunting their growth.

[demoyn]

Thor Sten, on 09 December 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

Can someone give me a few hints, how to contribute as a Scout in CW or should I just forget using my Lolcusts and Jenners when trying CW?

A few of the people above me have already typed most of what I'd say, so just listen to everyone who doesn't think LRMs are useful and you'll be fine. My personal contribution to this would be my old drop-deck, which would probably work really well for you (and, in fact, is more powerful now than when I ran it).

AS7-D-DC
GRF-2N
GRF-2N
RVN-3L

This lets three of your mechs feel like light scouts (those GRF's run about 95 KPH), all of them provide ECM for the team, and you're still touching the maximum tonnage for the drop. The D-DC may not be your cup of tea, but it allows for you to put out a large amount of damage in a short period of time so that you can get back to what you're familiar with. This is what I used in the first Tukayyid event, and it worked amazingly well.

[Sandpit]

demoyn, on 10 December 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:

Oh yeah? Well what if someone had been Marik for two years and left because he just got fed up with Marik being stupid and using losing tactics; primarily LRMs? Yeah... I was in your drops (maybe not you personally, but certainly the people in your group). Yeah, I know your builds. He's absolutely right, they suck.

If you want to help new players, stop suggesting anything regarding LRMs other than "they suck don't ever use them". Anything else is just stunting their growth.

pssst
what does that have to do with the tactics and strategies we used last weekend? I'm sorry you're bitter or angry over your time in Marik, but I fail to see what that has to do with the topic? Pro Tip, if you have issues with players and/or units, I'd suggest taking a more adult approach and maybe talking to the people about it instead of trying to turn a new player's questions regarding needing help with mech selection into your own personal MWO Topix section

[Thejuggla]

Thor Sten, on 09 December 2015 - 03:03 PM, said:

I play mostly light scouts in the "normal"

Can someone give me a few hints, how to contribute as a Scout in CW or should I just forget using my Lolcusts and Jenners when trying CW?

Complain about maps and hope for more diversity, but in the short term just boat Spl or erll for your light mechs.

[demoyn]

Sandpit, on 10 December 2015 - 03:59 PM, said:

pssst
what does that have to do with the tactics and strategies we used last weekend? I'm sorry you're bitter or angry over your time in Marik, but I fail to see what that has to do with the topic? Pro Tip, if you have issues with players and/or units, I'd suggest taking a more adult approach and maybe talking to the people about it instead of trying to turn a new player's questions regarding needing help with mech selection into your own personal MWO Topix section

I don't have issues with players or units. I have issues with telling new players false information.

[Karamarka]

If every map wasn't some sort of chokepoint gate map it might actually work.

[PFC Carsten]

HelBound, on 10 December 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

With the way CW maps are laid out a fast moving heavy scout is more useful then a speedy light. But then....I am steiner.

So, a Banshee over an Atlas?

[Sturmwind]

CW isn't a place where you put 4 lights mechs in your dropdeck and go. The majority runs only 1 light in their dropdecks, some do 2 but that's just to get their couple assaults in then usually. Overall, in CW you'll have to be able to play every weight-class - preferably effectively, too.

And, like pwnface stated, deal dmg as a scout, too. Harasing the enemy is always good. 2 ERLarge Ravens for long-range, Firestarters with MPulse or the classic SPulse work great with light-rushes when paired with some ECM spiders for Streak Protection.

Edited by Sturmwind, 11 December 2015 - 12:48 AM.

[ZenFool]

If you must run a scout in CW, make it one with punch as well. There are plenty of decent ER scouts and even a few decent lrm scouts, but don't waste extra tonnage on an lrm mech please.