52 replies to this topic

[Widowmaker1981]

mariomanz28, on 10 December 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

If they are built ground up of clan tech then why are they using the same cockpit as the IS variants? Hmm? Don't you think they would have improved that too considering they are a "300 year more advanced civilization"?



Calling it a Clan Battlemech or an IS Battlemech is purely semantics as the principal is the same. Part of balancing clan tech was locking all the Clan's Mech's equipment. It's still mix tech in principal regardless of what you call the base chassis, clan or IS, they still work just like IS mechs but with the benefits of being able to swap engines, endo, ferro, and not having any locked components like heatsinks or jump jets while getting the benefits of using the lighter and smaller clan tech.

Just because you want to put your fingers in your ears and "la la la" to pretend it isn't true doesn't mean it isn't. They are still effectively giving IS like mechs the ability to mount clan tech and if you can't see that then you are just playing dumb.

You are confused.

There are two things here: IS / Clan and Omnimech / Battlemech. Both Clan and IS have both Omnimechs and Battlemechs. Omnis have locked gear and swappable hardpoints, Battlemechs are fully customisable but have locked in hardpoints. Up until now we have only had IS Battlemechs and only had Clan Omnimechs. Not all Clan battlemechs are updated IS designs - the Stone Rhino, Supernova, Kodiak and others are all pure Clan, but Battlemech not Omnimech.

Its a bit like the political thing of there being Libertarian / Authoritarian and Left wing / Right wing. A lot of people get confused and conflate libertarian with left wing and authoritarian with right wing, where its actually entirely possible to be left wing authoritarian or right wing libertarian.

Now it is very true that initial IS / Clan balance principles relied on taking the locked mechlab into account, and the release of IICs will cause balance issues unless some factors which were previously ok, like the C-XL, get changed. In other words the IS XL needs to not die on 1 ST loss, and the STD engines from both tech lines need serious durability buffs to keep them relevant.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 10 December 2015 - 09:27 AM.

[Commander A9]

Then again, it IS a repurposed Inner Sphere mech, so I imagine there would be similarities...

[Ultimax]

Dear people freaking out about Hunchback IIC weapon locations.


Seriously, what did you expect?

Have you never seen a Hunchback?

Have you somehow missed the IIC Artwork that has been up for months?

Did you not bother to look at any of the hardpoint info?



Sometimes I feel you gaggle of geese are just looking for excuses to hyperventilate.

[Almond Brown]

Jun Watarase, on 09 December 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Guys, please, less development time per new mech = more new mechs = more money for PGI.

Oh ffs. Until they invent a Company that doesn't run on Money, I guess we are just stuck. Did you know that even a Non-Profit Business runs on money...

Edited by Almond Brown, 10 December 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Mystere]

Widowmaker1981, on 10 December 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Nope. This is Clan tech on Clan mechs. Just that they are Battlemechs and not Omnimechs. Clan tech on IS mechs is different - for example using a CXL on a BNC-3M (i wish, lol).

You can most certainly argue releasing Clan Battlemechs was and is a mistake though - i think it is a massive mistake that is going to end up obsoleting Omnimechs, because Battlemech open construction is so much better than Omnimech hardpoint lego mech system. IS - Clan balance can be worked on by equipment stats, but Battlemech - Omnimech balance is WAY off right now, and equipment stats don't and can't have any effect on it.

Widowmaker1981, on 10 December 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

You're not too good at this whole balance thing are you? If you unlock everything then Omnis are superior to Battlemechs and all the new mechs are obsoleted... there does need to be SOME balance to the pod swapping.

I just think that locked equipment as a balance point to superior tech worked pretty nicely, and allowed Clan tech to remain better for lore flavour without overall balance being terrible, and releasing Clan Battlemechs was a mistake** because now they cannot use that, and have to balance the tech itself on a 1 to 1 basis.

**from a balance / gameplay point of view, not a financial one - its obviously a money spinner for PGI

And that is why MWO balance should not be based purely on equipment alone. It's going to massively turn on it's head a whole lot of things related to the IP, with harmonization the greatest risk.

But people just refuse to listen.

Edited by Mystere, 10 December 2015 - 10:32 AM.

[Almond Brown]

mariomanz28, on 10 December 2015 - 05:18 AM, said:

Well if you really want to get technical these would be Star League mechs not clans since the chassis were around before the clans left and they refit them with clan tech. You can't argue this is basically mixtech which wasn't supposed to happen in MWO.

They just need to go ahead and let IS mount clan tech and be done with it.

Pretty sure these where the original Mechs that Kerensky took with in the Exodus. They were then retrofitted as "second line Mechs" by those who went with Kerensky all those years ago, that morphed into the new genetically enhanced folks we call the "Clans".

So yes, they were once I.S. Mechs, but that was indeed a long time ago.

[Alan Davion]

Ultimatum X, on 10 December 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Dear people freaking out about Hunchback IIC weapon locations.

Seriously, what did you expect?

Have you never seen a Hunchback?

Have you somehow missed the IIC Artwork that has been up for months?

Did you not bother to look at any of the hardpoint info?

Sometimes I feel you gaggle of geese are just looking for excuses to hyperventilate.

Oh contraire.

We all knew what the hardpoints would be, or at least we should have, but we didn't have the slightest clue what they would be like "visually speaking" aside from the "Main" variant.

That is what people are not pleased with. I'd be willing to bet most people thought it would be 1 laser in each of those big hunches, and then some 3-pack thing similar to IS Hunchies or the Hellbringer.

Now that it's known we can pack 4 ER medium lasers at the very top of the mech, that gives the IIC quite the hefty advantage, don't you agree?

Edited by Alan Davion, 10 December 2015 - 10:29 AM.

[Almond Brown]

That load out looks great but that .92 Heat rating, on a Clan chassis, will not really be feasible on the battlefield. Way to HOT! HOT! HOT! HOT! HOT! HOT! HOT!

Did I say HOT!

Are we sure PGI will allow Tech changes, above what the current Clan Mechs are allowed, on the IIC models?

[Widowmaker1981]

Alan Davion, on 10 December 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

Oh contraire.

We all knew what the hardpoints would be, or at least we should have, but we didn't have the slightest clue what they would be like "visually speaking" aside from the "Main" variant.

That is what people are not pleased with. I'd be willing to bet most people thought it would be 1 laser in each of those big hunches, and then some 3-pack thing similar to IS Hunchies or the Hellbringer.

Now that it's known we can pack 4 ER medium lasers at the very top of the mech, that gives the IIC quite the hefty advantage, don't you agree?

Well, apart from tech tree no more so than the IS energy hunch with the 6 pack in the RT - those are all cockpit height or higher, which is all you need (weapons mounted above the cockpit are no better than those at equal height, because you cannot shoot what you cannot see)

Tbh i was expecting a 3 pack hellbringer style in each hunch, so this is roughly that. Unsurprising.

[Roadkill]

Almond Brown, on 10 December 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

Pretty sure these where the original Mechs that Kerensky took with in the Exodus. They were then retrofitted as "second line Mechs" by those who went with Kerensky all those years ago, that morphed into the new genetically enhanced folks we call the "Clans".

Sort of, yeah.

IIC Mechs are design descendents of Star League-era Mechs that Kerensky took with him during the Exodus. They aren't simply refits of those very old Mechs... they're new designs evolved from those old chassis.

They are not in any way IS Mechs. They are Clan BattleMechs (not OmniMechs) through-and-through. They're typically only used by 2nd line units, but that is because the Clans view Omni technology as superior so their front line units are all outfitted with OmniMechs. IIC Mechs are, in many cases, as good or better than equivalent OmniMechs.

With slightly different timing, the Stormcrow would have been a IIC Mech. The Stormcrow is an Omni-improved version of the older Corvis, which was a new Clan design from shortly after the Exodus. Had the Corvis been designed prior to the Exodus, the Stormcrow would instead be known as the Corvis IIC.

[Bishop Steiner]

mariomanz28, on 10 December 2015 - 09:13 AM, said:

If they are built ground up of clan tech then why are they using the same cockpit as the IS variants? Hmm? Don't you think they would have improved that too considering they are a "300 year more advanced civilization"?



Calling it a Clan Battlemech or an IS Battlemech is purely semantics as the principal is the same. Part of balancing clan tech was locking all the Clan's Mech's equipment. It's still mix tech in principal regardless of what you call the base chassis, clan or IS, they still work just like IS mechs but with the benefits of being able to swap engines, endo, ferro, and not having any locked components like heatsinks or jump jets while getting the benefits of using the lighter and smaller clan tech.

Just because you want to put your fingers in your ears and "la la la" to pretend it isn't true doesn't mean it isn't. They are still effectively giving IS like mechs the ability to mount clan tech and if you can't see that then you are just playing dumb.

Firstly, they aren't the same cockpit. Aside from the panes what is visible is distinctly different.

Second, even if PGI gets lazy modeling, that doesn't change the lore, which I linked in my post

Third, instead of looking like an idiot by continuing to incorrectly argue from a position of ignorance, your should really take the time to learn the actual lore... Starting with that link.

Have a nice fail.

[DrKronic]

I'm a huge lore nerd of battletech and IIC mechs existed back in the 90s too so sorry guys, they are actually for reserves/2nd line units/certain suicide mechs(the hunchie IIC comes to mind) where Omnimechs weren't deemed necessary, so its kinda funny thinking they will be the next OP thing in the Powercreep cycle

edit: PS I didn't buy any because to me they are 2nd rate in lore terms anyhow, stick to what I like IS stuff

Edited by DrKronic, 10 December 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[Alex Morgaine]

Nova we hardly knew ye