258 replies to this topic

[SkippyT72]

VorpalAnvil, on 17 December 2015 - 11:09 AM, said:

This right here. I have a guy in my unit that consistently does 500 to sometimes 750 or 1000 damage more than the rest of us in CW ( In IS or Clan mechs ). He runs the same mechs as us, using the same ( roughly ) meta builds. Is he cheating? No, he's better than us. But unlike IS bads, we don't whine to PGI to have him nerfed because our fragile little egos can't handle it.

Structure Buffs are OP right Vorpal....lol That drop hurt alittle, tell the 5 gent's who filled my dance card sorry I did not last longer in the Waltz...lol

[Adamski]

Kyrs, on 17 December 2015 - 09:40 PM, said:

I that 55 metres between I.S pulse that crucial and OP?? You have 55 more metres but an increase of 50% in burn time. A light mech runs at 40 to 47.5 metres per second. I give that on Executioner it does matter more.

Still with quick FS9-A with 8 Small pulse 32 alpha with 5.25 sustain damage with quick. It extremely close to 36 alpha with 4.8 sustain damage.

That 50% difference is deadly at high 1 tier a 2 battle. Cheata still very good mech but I fear way more the FS9-A a FS9-S.

What 50% difference are you talking about? For each fraction of a second you hold the laser on target, the FS9 and the ACH do the exact same damage (or the ACH does slightly more). Then, if you keep holding on target, the ACH does bonus damage with its bonus burn time.

[STEF_]

Tesunie, on 17 December 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

That Battlemaster works well in PUG, but it is not so worthy of CW, which does have a different play style and mech design ethos attached to it.

This is partially incorrect, because largely depending on playstyle.
I'm a brawler, so I like to go close even in Boreal. And while attacking, you MUST go close.
Anyway I like to drop in CW at least with a lance, so we can carry and push hard for the entire match.
The more you push, the more aggressive you are, the more you win.

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 17 December 2015 - 10:38 PM.

[Black Ivan]

Actually my Battlemaster works fine in CW, never had a problem with it.

[Tesunie]

Stefka Kerensky, on 17 December 2015 - 10:38 PM, said:

This is partially incorrect, because largely depending on playstyle.
I'm a brawler, so I like to go close even in Boreal. And while attacking, you MUST go close.
Anyway I like to drop in CW at least with a lance, so we can carry and push hard for the entire match.
The more you push, the more aggressive you are, the more you win.

Not saying THE Battlemaster, just that (my custom of the) Battlemaster was not set up for CW. Then again, none of my assaults are...

My Battlemaster was designed before quirks. The LRMs are for when I can't get LoS. The LL and UAC5 are for longer ranges (secondary) and for cooling off periods. The 6 Med lasers are for close up work, and to be used occasionally. The build did not work as intended in CW, but worked fine in PUG before hand.

[Torchfire Katayama]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I am just assuming that every player in this game is 100% equal to each other and in that regard the numbers do not add up. What you and everyone here is saying is that the Clan were out numbered and had to work harder than the IS to not only out damage the IS but also win the event. I call BS.

You first mistake was ASSuming.

[Lily from animove]

Adamski, on 17 December 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

What 50% difference are you talking about? For each fraction of a second you hold the laser on target, the FS9 and the ACH do the exact same damage (or the ACH does slightly more). Then, if you keep holding on target, the ACH does bonus damage with its bonus burn time.

Not on the big picture, efficiently takign out a section is whats important, when both are good at twisting and aming they will strike a wanted section when shooting but slip off when the other twists the section away form being hitable.

so whenyou can stay only 0,3 second son the section you cna blow off this means. the is laser misses 0,2 seconds to sowmehre else, while the ACH misses 0,45 seconds to somewhere else. But you pay the Shot with heat.

which means the FS9 will deliver a better heat/damage ratio into the wanted section. The cheetah does the same damage yes, but he has more "waste" damage to other locations and pays this with higher "waste" heat. therefore it is a lt more heat inefficient. And then there will be te moment when both mechs have their vital section equally critical damaged and the ACH being at heat issues not able to sustain fire while the FS9 jumps around happily and still firing.

Edited by Lily from animove, 18 December 2015 - 02:22 AM.

[Tarogato]

All I see for the last 13 pages is two sides bickering that their favourite side is disadvantaged.

Something fishy about that seems to want to tell me it means they're both balanced...

Edited by Tarogato, 18 December 2015 - 09:23 PM.

[Dino Might]

No kidding. A good pilot will crush an FS9 with his ACH. A good pilot will crush an ACH with his FS9. At the moment, those two mechs are right on level with each other, as close as they have ever been.

Clans get better weapon damage and range, IS gets better heat efficiency for sustained fights. The structure quirks that everyone is whining about now are something that gets IS mechs up to near parity in survivability. Right now, the sides are balanced closely enough that it's mostly pilot skill and decisions making the difference - this is of course talking about top tier mechs on either side vs each other. Both sides still have some seriously bad robots that can't compare to the best of their class.

[Smotty]

Tarogato, on 18 December 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

All I see for the last 13 pages is two sides bickering that their favourite side is disadvantaged.

Sometimes fishy about that seems to want to tell me it means they're both balanced...

I can't believe this made it to 13 pages...

[Void Angel]

BLOODREDSINGLE, on 11 December 2015 - 03:35 PM, said:

If this isn't hard date proof then I don't know what is....


The IS had more players than the Clan and yet the Clan out damaged the IS by several million... That just doesn't seem right. And before the white knights go on parade here I want to remind you that both sides have new players no just the IS. The stats don't lie. Someone is using OP mechs and weapons.... just saying



Total IS Players: 7929 (1275 more players)

Total Clan Players: 6654



Total Damage Done by IS Mechs: 94238853 (9,759,248 less damage)
Total Damage Done by Clan Mechs: 103998101

Now your telling me that IS had almost 1300 more players and did almost 10 million less damage? And don't go into that teamwork using comms crap because even if the Clan players were better (highly doubtful) the damage difference is still WAY off.

Parade away white knights.

Oooh, a slur to poison the well! Never heard that from a hostile poster with inadequate data analysis skills before! As has been pointed out by at least two people by page 1, the numbers you are positing don't support your conclusion, since you've cited them improperly - and you've even failed to use them consistently within your own argument!

Never mind that the number of players is not a strength when combat is throttled by the number of zones on Tukayyid. I guarantee you there was not one ghost drop - but forget that. You've screwed up your own argument without any help from inconvenient facts you decided to ignore. See, what you're saying is that the Inner Sphere outnumbered the Clans by 19 percent, but did only 10 percent more damage.

Edited by Void Angel, 18 December 2015 - 02:30 PM.

[Void Angel]

PS: As for balance, that's not a question we can solve here. You need to look at demographic data sets (which we don't have) and then analyze them based on things like results within a skill tier (which we don't know) and results for certain weapons and 'mechs (which we can't do.) So, yeah. Not throwing my hat into that bullring - I just despise shoddy argument.

[Pat Kell]

omg blood....surely you see that there were exactly the same numbers of IS mechs vs clan mechs that played in the event correct? have to have 12 v12 after all...the extra 1300 players was because of wait times and cycling in different players over time....I still think clan mechs are more powerful though...not as bad as the first tukayid but still just a slight edge.

[Torchfire Katayama]

Kidding right Pat Kell? With the Gauss nerf the only pinpoint weapons the clans have are.. um, wait, hold on a tic, EVERY Clan weapon spreads its damage. Oh yay we have an advanced XL engine that's prolongs our misery. Meanwhile, back in the IS, 80% of your weapons are pinpoint, including your lasers >.<

If I wasn't invested in the clan mechs, and didn't have a respect and a fondness for clan lore, I'd be driving an IS mech. Oh wait, I've already started buying into IS mechs when I pug. Because they ARE better.

[Livewyr]

Why is this still going?

This died at the OP. Inner sphere had more individual players, not more matches (with opponents)...and not more players per match.

Can we /thread now?

Edited by Livewyr, 20 December 2015 - 09:35 PM.

[Tasker]

Moldur, on 11 December 2015 - 04:37 PM, said:

I sincerely hope PGI does not listen to or even read 99% of these threads.

Don't think you need to worry about that. Ha Ha.

[Ihasa]

Smotty, on 18 December 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

I can't believe this made it to 13 pages...

You must be new here?

[Pat Kell]

torchfire, we pulled out a 98+ win percentage in Tukayid and we won overall. I think there are a lot of other factors at play here of course but both sides have their specialties now. Clans have better speed, maneuverability and higher alphas. IS have better heat management, more health so to speak, shorter burn times etc. I am sure I am leaving things off the list for both sides but when it comes right down to it, I thing they are really close to being balanced with a slight edge to clans because honestly, being able to respond quickly to many areas of the battlefield is such an important benefit, that I have to give the slight edge to clans. If you are playing as a team and working well together, you can beat almost anyone with clans. If you go off and lone wolf it, you will get beat most of the time and that is simply because you are not playing to the clans strengths. putting skill aside, 1v1 IS wins I think, 12v12 clans win because they have the speed to dictate the fight better but they have to use the clan mechs as they were intended, move around, find the weak link in the line and strike fast and hard...if it sit and poke, you are playing to the IS strength, you have to go in, unload everything you have and trust that your teammates are coming with you to help finish that guy off.

[Anachronda]

MaxFool, on 11 December 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

I'm assuming this won't sink in either, but one more try: No, clans were not outnumbered. Every single match was 12 clanners vs 12 IS pilots.

It has also been seen in this sort of events that for the duration of event IS is flooded by lower tier players, lot of whom don't have unit and drop solo, and who normally don't play much CW. Same happens to clans, but not as badly as for IS. That's where IS gets the more players participating in event. Which means that if clan and IS have equal number of good players and groups, the good ones from clan gets to do more drops while good IS groups have to spend some time waiting in queue.

I guess you didn't look at the queue then. There were way more IS defending teams formed than Clan teams formed. IS teams had to wait and if there had been ghost drops it would have been totally unfair to clans. As far as what the OP was saying I don't think damage in outcome here points to a clan imblance. The result of Tukayyid at the end of the day, no matter what we might think, was a very close fight all the way to the end, where Clans won by a small margin. That alone says to me there can't be a huge disparity in the mechs leading to this outcome.