158 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Sandpit, on 18 January 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

Now you get to see all the "mighty" Tier 1 players b*tch

It's funny cause its true

Sandpit, on 18 January 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

....their team sucks lol

It's sad because it's true

[Aiden Skye]

Appogee, on 18 January 2016 - 05:56 AM, said:

Everybody wrings their hands over new players who ignore the warnings and join CW. Fair enough, MWO certainly needs more players.

But what about the end-game experience for those of us who are experienced players...?

We get dropped with a half a team of clueless noobs, against 12-mans. We spend the first 10 minutes trying to coach noobs on how to play CW (explaining the rules and directing the actual battle strategy), the next 10 minutes despairing as the noobs ignore everything we told them and lose all 4 of their Mechs for almost no damage, and then 5 minutes getting farmed at spawn by 12-mans who say helpful things like "Hur, dropship MVP, git gud".

I spent more than $700 effing dollars on this game. I'm a committed loyal customer. I'm here for the long haul. And I deserve a better end-game experience than this.

The interests of randoms who haven't paid a cent to play, who probably won't be seen again in a month's time, shouldn't supercede the needs of long term paying customers.





PS: Some will say. "Join a unit." Yeah, I did. So now I get to choose between clubbing seals when my team is online, or getting stomped by 12-mans when they're not. "Joining a unit" isn't delivering a viable end game experience for high value customers, either.

At least your're lucky enough to have a unit that plays CW so you can get some morale boosting clubbing in. My unit does not play CW. Pugged my way to GB rank 20, now trying to do the same for wolf. All I can say is seals....seals everywhere. I'm tired of typing the same things over and over again trying to help new players, that just run off and get perma dead in the 1st 10 minutes of battle. Many don't listen at all.

Something needs to be done. It's not good for the health of the game having so many new players drop into CW and get clubbed over and over. It's not good for CW vets who get stuck baby sitting players that barely grasp the fundamentals of the game.

[ztac]

CW is actually more for the new player than the old.
The reasoning is that the rewards are of more use to the new player than the old player.

Sure it took PGI forever to finally come up with it as it is , although it's current state is quite badly implemented.
Here lies the real heart of the problem , poor implementation of a game mode that should be fun (which on most occasions it is not).

With the way the game works where casual players are put up against 'pro's' it was obvious it would fail. Casual's do not have drop deck's that have been tailored , they may or may not use some form of TS , and the will soon leave a game and play something else if they get sick of being stomped!

All this elitism is very bad for the game and certainly is not helping the matter.

Bottom line is that even if PGI ever do any form of split queue system of implement ay matchmaker it will be exploited , just like it always has been in the past.

Just because certain people at PGI say CW is end content does not make it so.... or anyone else for that matter...

CW was promised from DAY 1 and only delivered way after! If it had been there on day 1 I bet an awful lot of people would have been playing it there and then!

Edited by ztac, 19 January 2016 - 09:56 AM.

[DarklightCA]

ztac, on 19 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

CW is actually more for the new player than the old.
The reasoning is that the rewards are of more use to the new player than the old player.

Sure it took PGI forever to finally come up with it as it is , although it's current state is quite badly implemented.
Here lies the real heart of the problem , poor implementation of a game mode that should be fun (which on most occasions it is not).

With the way the game works where casual players are put up against 'pro's' it was obvious it would fail. Casual's do not have drop deck's that have been tailored , they may or may not use some form of TS , and the will soon leave a game and play something else if they get sick of being stomped!

All this elitism is very bad for the game and certainly is not helping the matter.

Bottom line is that even if PGI ever do any form of split queue system of implement ay matchmaker it will be exploited , just like it always has been in the past.

Just because certain people at PGI say CW is end content does not make it so.... or anyone else for that matter...

CW was promised from DAY 1 and only delivered way after! If it had been there on day 1 I bet an awful lot of people would have been playing it there and then!

The problem with Community Warfare is not units or premade's, it's not tryhards or "pro's". It's all the casual player's coming into it treating it like another regular queue. You cannot just drop in it with non-tailored drop decks, possible trial mechs, drop by yourself with no team support, play casually and expect to win majority of your games.

Community Warfare is NOT casual, it's a gamemode designed around units conquering planet's against other team's and players. It's a gamemode that has NO match maker. What's part of that sound's casual to you?. In Community Warfare good drop decks, teamwork and communication are what win's matches and you don't necessarily need to be in a unit to do that.

If majority of the solo queue player base understood this simple concept and made those adjustments they would be having WAY better games and if that is not something they are capable of doing then regular queue is just right around the corner. All the casual experience you could ever ask for in the loving embrace of a match maker.

[Jon Gotham]

ztac, on 19 January 2016 - 09:49 AM, said:

CW is actually more for the new player than the old.
The reasoning is that the rewards are of more use to the new player than the old player.

Sure it took PGI forever to finally come up with it as it is , although it's current state is quite badly implemented.
Here lies the real heart of the problem , poor implementation of a game mode that should be fun (which on most occasions it is not).

With the way the game works where casual players are put up against 'pro's' it was obvious it would fail. Casual's do not have drop deck's that have been tailored , they may or may not use some form of TS , and the will soon leave a game and play something else if they get sick of being stomped!

All this elitism is very bad for the game and certainly is not helping the matter.

Bottom line is that even if PGI ever do any form of split queue system of implement ay matchmaker it will be exploited , just like it always has been in the past.

Just because certain people at PGI say CW is end content does not make it so.... or anyone else for that matter...

CW was promised from DAY 1 and only delivered way after! If it had been there on day 1 I bet an awful lot of people would have been playing it there and then!

Actually, I REALLY enjoy CW but only with 2 specific situations..mentioned below. If the people who made the game state something then it is so frankly. Howeveer a large section of the playerbase has gone into the mode, aware of this but have decided that they want the mode changed to suit them persobnally. Re-writing the definitions to suit them and shouting down/whining down that definition until the change they want happens. And now, it has.
Possibly good for MWO's income, possibly bad for potential in the future, DEFINITELY a killer for community.

My cw experience is like this, note I pug around 75% of the time:

Type 1 game: Around 70% of my matches
Mostly solo MAYBE a 2-3 man.
At least 8 people on the team are utterly silent, refusing to talk or type.
MAYBE 1-2 actually talk (these are nearly always people from the US)
1-2 use the text chat.
The 8 silent bobs utterly ignore what the talkers/typers say.
Team gets rolled.
People then come onto forums and whine about the premade that just beat them.

Type 2 game: Around 5% of my matches
Mostly solo maybe 2-3 man
5-6 people talk
3-4 type
rest are silent
People call targets and respond to talkers
No one stops or rambos
Team even if loses, does not get stomped.
No one complains on forums.

Type 3 game: Around 20% of my matches
A larger premade usually around 6 strong.
Other half solos. 1-2 of which might use text chat.
Premade just blanks solo players, never speak or relays plan.
Team gets stomped
Premade blames solos.
People comlain about scrub solos on forums.

Type 4 game: Around 5% of my matches
A larger premade usually around 6 strong.
Other half solos, all of which will talk or use text chat.
Premade constantly talk to pugs, keeping them with the plan.
even if loses, team does not get stomped.
No one complains


Non pugging type:
Premade made up of solos, unit guys etc.
All talk/type and listen.
Even if loses, does not get stomped.
No one complains.


the one underlying factor in the above is the players themselves. their own ignorance and laziness and anti social atttiudes. Would you want my type 1 games nearly all the time? Because when split queues come in, thats exactly what you will get. Other mmos have people employed to manage the player behaviour, people who specialize in shifting the playerbase.
Encouraging the players in the type 1 game will KILL any chance MWO has of ever being more than team solomatch shooter #2345.
Is it right to encourage and reward this poor mentality?

Edited by kamiko kross, 20 January 2016 - 10:13 AM.

[Bhodi Li773]

Here are a few things that PGI could do to help CW:

1. NO TRIAL MECHS ALLOWED . Sending a new player to CW with trial mechs is a lost player AND lost revenue for PGI.
2. Only MASTERED OR ELITED MECHS IN CW. This would mean a fair bit of playing and learning a mech before it sees CW
3. PRE-MADE CW DROPDECKS This would allow people to play CW with a CW drop build out of the gate but restrict them to a CW drop that is pug only. This will be the "I wanna play CW without putting in the effort of getting prepared to get there right now" and still have them playing against equally skilled players. This will streamline CW groups into more PREMADE VS PREMADE and the random /minor premades vs random/minor premades. Less killing/PUG stomping will occur and CW will become a much more lively part of MWO.

4. CLOSE OFF DROPSHIP AREAS. This could be as simple as putting indestructible turrets or beef up dropship weapons again that will insta-kill people trying to spawncamp which kills CW and seriously jeopardizes the future of MWO. This will protect the NEW player from getting PUGSTOMPED which will give PGI /MWO supporters the increased player base that we BOTH want.

Until that happens GLHF . Remember .. Play The Game ... Don't Let The Game Play You! O7 MechWarriors!

[Necromantion]

PerfectDuck, on 15 December 2015 - 03:35 AM, said:

People who choose to drop solo have always been the problem with CW.

People who choose to drop in all trials? Recent problem, and compounds the first one.

People who disconnect after first wave? Recent problem, and compounds the first two.

In the end though players still need to stop dropping solo like useless scattered rabble and visit a damn faction hub.

Making a kiddie pool for antisocial pariahs so they can have their disorganized pug matches without experiencing an organized group come by and teach them the most critical Mechwarrior: Online lesson about the necessity of teamwork, is a concession in the wrong direction.

This is an education issue. People need to be taught what they're up against and what's advisable instead of be thrown out into the world doomed to fail from the start.

Wow one of the posts of the year for sure! Well said!

[Yankee Kitsune]

Ya know what would be rather simple to implement and would help with a lot of these issues without having to gate/partision CW?

A Lobby

An honest to God, ACTUAL faction lobby. NOT that little box in the right corner that a lot of people don't even realize is there or pay attention to. I mean a full screen chat and information hub that comes up as soon as someone switches over to Faction Play where new players can get advice about drop decks (btw how about letting us edit decks without having to go into the drop queue???), and how to play, people can form groups while seeing what others are bringing (still dont understand the purpose of not knowing who your teammates are until you're locked into a drop), and then they can pick a planet and drop as an at least somewhat organized 12 man.

My greatest issue I have with PGI is they seem to lack an understanding when it comes to proper player and community guidance and support. I remember while following the initial beta of MWO they weren't planning on including VoIP because they thought people were just going to use Teamspeak. There is an apparent lack of savvy when it comes to creating an environment where new customers can learn the game and feel like they're accomplishing something without hitting a frustrating wall and deciding to quit.

Advertising on Steam about CW is the making it feel like its the 'real' game while not providing ANY kind of training on how it works is just a poorly though out move.

[Necromantion]

Yankee Kitsune, on 21 January 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

Ya know what would be rather simple to implement and would help with a lot of these issues without having to gate/partision CW?

A Lobby

An honest to God, ACTUAL faction lobby. NOT that little box in the right corner that a lot of people don't even realize is there or pay attention to. I mean a full screen chat and information hub that comes up as soon as someone switches over to Faction Play where new players can get advice about drop decks (btw how about letting us edit decks without having to go into the drop queue???), and how to play, people can form groups while seeing what others are bringing (still dont understand the purpose of not knowing who your teammates are until you're locked into a drop), and then they can pick a planet and drop as an at least somewhat organized 12 man.

My greatest issue I have with PGI is they seem to lack an understanding when it comes to proper player and community guidance and support. I remember while following the initial beta of MWO they weren't planning on including VoIP because they thought people were just going to use Teamspeak. There is an apparent lack of savvy when it comes to creating an environment where new customers can learn the game and feel like they're accomplishing something without hitting a frustrating wall and deciding to quit.

Advertising on Steam about CW is the making it feel like its the 'real' game while not providing ANY kind of training on how it works is just a poorly though out move.

You know that PGI cannot design a UI if it was to save their own life right? We can even use ESC to close menus. Its 2016 there have been better user interfaces in games back in the 90's.

They lack an understanding AND foresight. All of the "fixes" they implement always have foreseeable effects for the future and yet they stumble ahead as if blind.

[Thejuggla]

4 elited mechs, problems pretty much solved. Anyone bringing 4 elited mechs means they spent a fair amount of time with all those chassis + grinding them and should be decently skilled with those mechs and picked up some teamwork by then.

[Sandpit]

Thejuggla, on 21 January 2016 - 06:17 PM, said:

4 elited mechs, problems pretty much solved. Anyone bringing 4 elited mechs means they spent a fair amount of time with all those chassis + grinding them and should be decently skilled with those mechs and picked up some teamwork by then.

4 elited mechs requires (if it's 4 different chassis, which it won't be 1 chassis for most players) 16 mechs basic'd.

It will take new players an extremely long time to get to that level, especially if they're casual, so no thanks. Too big of a block and gate.

[PerfectDuck]

Necromantion, on 20 January 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Wow one of the posts of the year for sure! Well said!

I liked my post a lot too but alas PGI are going to opt for split queues. On the bright side, fewer unsupervised infants in the regular pool means less unpleasant mess we have to clean up after. And to help mend the problems of low-population times, inactive planets and units having too much control over who to fight (and who to avoid) it seems (I saw in the video) there will be a voting system for factions to choose one single target to attack at a time. I'm curious to see how the changes improve things and what problems it creates. Some pessimists fear that there are numerous units that will simply fold over from weariness and pressure if all they can do is fight other units nonstop. I'm hoping the action will draw out more of the competitive types.

[Jon Gotham]

I had a match dropping as the odd man out with 11 Seraphim last night, we fought a very close game vs TCAF-went to the wire with some truly nasty and savage brawling....hoping that continues....

[zolop]

CW Phase 3 cannot come soon enough. There should be some kind of checklist and warning when going into CW. Maybe something like...

( <you> refers to the play)

"You are entering into a game mode that is based on combat on a galactic scale with a community of players. You are expected to be in a group in this mode, hence the word community warfare. Community mean you are part of a group and fight as one, either as a loyalist, mercenary or unit group. Quick play is intended for solo players and group players. There is no matchmaking in CW to reflect the actual nature of simulating galactic warfare. As a Unit, Mercenary or Loyalist you will have a dropship that moves you around to the actual battles, not a matchmaking system as this is galactic war!"

Note reference... I play mostly solo for CW drops, but can understand the point of view of people that want more to the game than quick drops, as CW intends to far more. Maybe we should be aware of that. We will see how separate ques for units will effect the population of CW, as splitting the already low population of CW (compared to most F2P games) will definitely be a significant change. I do agree that CW is end game content though, so I do agree with must be in a unit, even if its just 2 players.

Don't like the elited mechs checklist idea or the tier level, but like the rest (has completed all training, played X number of matches, etc).

SIDENOTE: There is actually a warning prompt for CW?

Edited by zolop, 23 January 2016 - 06:20 PM.

[ztac]

Is this another thread t drive away new players?

It's a game and should be fun, at times it is far from it (unless of course you are in certain units).

[Havyek]

Dark Age Of Camelot had this, and I've seen it posted in various other suggestions: Once a new character is created, there should be a training clan/unit assigned so that people can find/make groups, get suggestions, ask questions etc.

What would be even better would be a true ALL Chat. No reason that everyone currently logged in can't talk to each other, again ask questions, make suggestions etc. Give it the BLOCK/IGNORE function that it would obviously need, but let the people who are willing to help new people help the new people.

I also like the requirements checklist. To enter CW a player must have:
Completed the tutorials
Completed their Cadet Bonus
Basic completed on 3 'Mechs (preferably of the same chassis) - This should be a check, doesn't need to be in the same dropdeck
Perhaps the developers of the game mode could be a bit more responsible and host a Faction specific TS3 server that is advertised when you select which faction you want to join in CW as well. There are already a number of them out there, but they may not want PGI publicly advertising their addresses in game.

[Jon Gotham]

ztac, on 24 January 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

Is this another thread t drive away new players?

It's a game and should be fun, at times it is far from it (unless of course you are in certain units).

Agree here. At times this game is magic like a CW match i had yesterday vs a mixed group of Liao. Both teams had small premades and mixed solos. Our team immediately started to talk, over voip and text chat. Everyone listened and added constructive things to chat. It was a great match with some solid brawling, we even got to chide the Liaos for their pre fight bravado-we won.
A mixed team of solos and small premade had a great time, because we talked, and played together!

This game isn't fun when people in same situation won't talk or type, won't listen and just do what they want to regardless of the others (hmm sounds like solo Q) on their team. It's those games where those people spoil everyone else's fun just to be self centered and selfish. Cw is a game mode intended to be played in a social, team oriented fashion...wether you are a premade or not. When you do this it's a ton of fun, win or lose.
The only thing that determines the fun is the players themselves, their own attitude to others and their own attitude to teamwork. This is the elephant in the room, the one thing people keep glossing over...wonder why?

[DarklightCA]

ztac, on 24 January 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

Is this another thread t drive away new players?

It's a game and should be fun, at times it is far from it (unless of course you are in certain units).

You are correct, it is a game and it should be fun. The thing driving away new player's is the fact player's with no experience on how to play this game, no mech's to call there own can instantly jump into end game content that has no match maker and is designed to be hard.

New player's should be limited to regular queue until they acquired the knowledge and mech's to properly play Community Warfare if that is what they choose to do. Perhaps in phase 3 PGI will implement something that better does this.

[Tavious Grimm]

An actual lobby would excellent! As well as the removal of trial mechs. I wish they would also implement a quicker edit function or make it so that you can load one of three possible drop decks. I say three since we have multiple maps with different heat/cold conditions and thusly allowing us to quickly switch to deck that suits the map environment. Just my two C-bills worth.