158 replies to this topic

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

The warning prompt isn't working. They never do and they never will.

There needs to be a "You have yet to meet the minimum criteria to participate in this game mode" and list what the player needs to work towards to open that mode up to them.

CW is end game content and PGI has mentioned that themselves. It's time to gate off the end game content like every other game with end game content.

QQ apologized profusely, and for any of them that had All Chat enabled I told them about the Steiner hub TS and gave them the address to. Sadly, All Chat being off by default (IIRC) likely prevented any of them from seeing the messages that were sent about community resources to help them out.

And that's not the only time that happened, earlier in the day when I was solo CW I was on the 'getting rolled' side by 10-12 man IS units like SROT, Sons of Odin, and BSK. In the one against SROT, we had four guys claim it was their first day playing; in the one against Sons of Odin, we had two who claimed it was their first match and three more claiming it was their third and fourth; And against BSK, we had two guys claiming their first day.

Of all those new players, half said they were uninstalling after that match as the game was poorly balanced if it pitted large groups of veteran players against brand new solo players.

Steam is good for the game because we're seeing loads of new players. But we're seeing them in the wrong game mode for a new player.


It would behoove PGI, MWO's Steam reviews, and Steam player retention if CW Phase 3 locks out new players that haven't met a certain set of criteria.

[_Comrade_]

it won't work with the current set up, players will "get gud" by buying all the meta mechs and then people would be crying about that MWO is a "Pay to win" game. A better idea is like they have in college sports a division III, division II, and division I....Division one or tier one MWO's case plays other tier one units and tier three plays tier three units and likewise. Of course the problem with this idea is their isn't enough players to implement it currently

Edited by Grimwill, 14 December 2015 - 01:31 PM.

[Davegt27]

Yep your right

New players should be assigned to a training unit one for the clan side one for the IS

They stay in the training unit until rank 6 they then get a free Much bay and ability to sign contracts

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Grimwill, on 14 December 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

it won't work with the current set up, players will "get gud" by buying all the meta mechs and then people would be crying about that MWO is a "Pay to win" game. A better idea is like they have in college sports a division III, division II, and division I....Division one or tier one MWO's case plays other tier one units and tier three plays tier three units and likewise. Of course the problem with this idea is their isn't enough players to implement it currently

It's not a better idea if it won't work in the current environment.


What will reduce these travesties is a simple checklist. Has the player:

• Completed the tutorial?
  
• Finished their Cadet Bonus?
  
• Purchased their first mech?

What would be even better is:

• Completed the tutorial?
  
• Finished their Cadet Bonus?
  
• Purchased their first mech?
  
• Played X number of Solo/Group matches?
  
• Purchased their second mech?

Because I'm pretty sure every game I've played that has end game content has told me I need to do X, Y, Z in order to partake in the endgame content or simply that I don't even see the endgame content until after I've done certain things. And it's worked great.

[Davegt27]

In the back of my mind I am thinking phase 3 will hit before Christmas even though Russ said in the spring

One reason is non aligned players won't get the call to arms

[Lyoto Machida]

It's hard to care when PGI doesn't.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Davegt27, on 14 December 2015 - 01:47 PM, said:

In the back of my mind I am thinking phase 3 will hit before Christmas even though Russ said in the spring

One reason is non aligned players won't get the call to arms

That Call to Arms has to be a death trap. Because that's what I feel like it is. I decided to click it one day since I drop solo CW often. Put me at the maw of 228 drop.

Lyoto Machida, on 14 December 2015 - 01:48 PM, said:

It's hard to care when PGI doesn't.

That it is.

[slide]

I have been saying since CW started that pugs and large groups need to be segregated. PERIOD.

Every argument put forth for this is shouted down by large groups that want to farm pugs or with "git gud" or join a unit etc.

People want to try a game mode to see if they like it BEFORE they will "git gud" or join a unit, when they get placed against any kind of experienced players the out come is that shown by the OP.

The result is that people leave the game and don't come back.

PGI needs to do something fast, not wait for phase 3 and make some planets pug only. Even if it's branded as a training simulation run on Terra by Comstar and doesn't actually count towards the map. People need an opportunity to:
-learn the maps
-learn some basic tactics
-learn what mechs/builds they need to bring
-develop some actual skills
Only then will they think about joining a unit


If units want to send some people to teach some of the above and use it a recruiting drive all the better for them. But until something is done, players will continue to quit the game or never come back to CW.

Something has to change, right now, or the Steam launch will be a failure and the reviews will start to reflect that more and more.

Even no grouping allowed until phase 3 would be better than this. (yes I know sync drops, but that can be limited to say 4 players per team)

Edited by slide, 14 December 2015 - 03:34 PM.

[demoyn]

Simply removing the trial mechs from the CW options would go a long way towards dulling most of these jagged edges. A player that's paid cash for four mechs is much less likely to leave the game over a few bad pubstomps than a new player in trial mechs, and those that don't pay cash will have played enough games to understand the average experience before getting into CW.

[Helsbane]

I wholeheartedly agree that CW needs to be gated in some way in order to prevent this from occurring. Tossing completely unprepared newbies into the meat grinder against people that are organized and are running mastered, effective builds is just wrong.

[slide]

demoyn, on 14 December 2015 - 03:39 PM, said:

A player that's paid cash for four mechs is much less likely to leave the game over a few bad pubstomps than a new player in trial mechs,

True to a point but I have seen veteran founders with $400+ invested in this game leave because of the reasons listed in this and other threads. Even if they don't leave all together they avoid CW like the plague.

Everybody, no matter the side of this argument you are on, agrees that the solution is more players. You won't get more players as long as ridiculous stomps keep happening or people can't feel like they can contribute.

The evidence is in MWO history.

lesson 1 - just out of closed beta, no match maker, moderately organised units on comms stomping everything in sight, huge outcry over it, people leave.

lesson 2 - separate queues era, 12man group queue dies because only a few elite teams can compete. Again a huge outcry from both sides, lesser skilled people can't compete and elite groups have no one to play.

lesson 3 - tonnage handicap and PSR matching in group queue, same as lesson 2 but is better. Still get complaints against large groups dominating.

Now we have CW which is essentially the same as it was coming out of closed beta, same problems but we and PGI still haven't learnt a thing.

And every time we lose more players than we gain. It has to change or I predict everyone will play the new 4v4 mode and planets will never change hands.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I'm in total agreement with Miss Johan. ;-)

We need a solution, and a novel one, and soon. If it's gonna turn the influx of Steamers right back around and out the door, then it's no good. We need fresh players, not fresh meat.

I've had the good fortune to have my QQ teammates (Like Her Highness) to soften the landing in CW. Most Steamers do not.

I like the idea of gating it, at least for now, on a no-trial-mechs basis. A Band-Aid on a bullet wound, sure. Beats nothing by a long shot, though.

Maybe allow them in the 4v4 when that rolls out, in the hope of keeping developing players' eyes on the CW prize by allowing them to contribute in a meaningful way.

[FallingAce]

I prefer no trial mechs until you reach tier4. Tier 5 players can still play if they've purchased 4 mechs.

Set up a planet for tier 5 players counterattack/ defend only(no gates or turrets). Even if its's 4v4 or 8v8 Let them get a feel for CW without being out in the wild.
48-9 not fun for either side

[DakoneAzura]

Lord Scarlett Johan, on 14 December 2015 - 01:09 PM, said:

The warning prompt isn't working. They never do and they never will.

There needs to be a "You have yet to meet the minimum criteria to participate in this game mode" and list what the player needs to work towards to open that mode up to them.

CW is end game content and PGI has mentioned that themselves. It's time to gate off the end game content like every other game with end game content.

QQ apologized profusely, and for any of them that had All Chat enabled I told them about the Steiner hub TS and gave them the address to. Sadly, All Chat being off by default (IIRC) likely prevented any of them from seeing the messages that were sent about community resources to help them out.

And that's not the only time that happened, earlier in the day when I was solo CW I was on the 'getting rolled' side by 10-12 man IS units like SROT, Sons of Odin, and BSK. In the one against SROT, we had four guys claim it was their first day playing; in the one against Sons of Odin, we had two who claimed it was their first match and three more claiming it was their third and fourth; And against BSK, we had two guys claiming their first day.

Of all those new players, half said they were uninstalling after that match as the game was poorly balanced if it pitted large groups of veteran players against brand new solo players.

Steam is good for the game because we're seeing loads of new players. But we're seeing them in the wrong game mode for a new player.


It would behoove PGI, MWO's Steam reviews, and Steam player retention if CW Phase 3 locks out new players that haven't met a certain set of criteria.

For the 100th time Mech warrior is a game where lowbies are putted against vets that is how the mechwarrior universe works what you are wanting to happen will completely change the who meaning of mechwarrior and at that time if that does happen I will like for them to remove mechwarrior from the title and say battletech online instead. Also players will get furiously bored playing nothing but matchmaking to grind up in a year as a free to play member to get a decent line up of mechs by that time those who want to stick around will pay and those who will not will leave and I think the % who leave will be pretty high and that will also kill off all steam users as well.

[kesmai]

Stupid me opened a sort of similar post (haven't read yours). I completely agree with the op. The game needs to protect its new players from having such horrible matches.
@darkoneazura: You have a point there, but in the end we neeD to keep new players playing and not quitting the game after trying out cw. Hence they should have at least a minimum number of drops or even a dropdeck. Not to speak of being part of a unit...


something like a "outreach combat zone" for tier 5 could work too.

Edited by kesmai, 15 December 2015 - 02:56 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

Not much can be done.

I think requiring someone to finish the cadet phase to unlock both "call to arms" and the faction play button is advisable.

Still, it wont prevent massively lopsided games. I swear though I have seen people in CW in which it was their first time ever having play MWO and this should be prevented.

[PerfectDuck]

People who choose to drop solo have always been the problem with CW.

People who choose to drop in all trials? Recent problem, and compounds the first one.

People who disconnect after first wave? Recent problem, and compounds the first two.

In the end though players still need to stop dropping solo like useless scattered rabble and visit a damn faction hub.

Making a kiddie pool for antisocial pariahs so they can have their disorganized pug matches without experiencing an organized group come by and teach them the most critical Mechwarrior: Online lesson about the necessity of teamwork, is a concession in the wrong direction.

This is an education issue. People need to be taught what they're up against and what's advisable instead of be thrown out into the world doomed to fail from the start.

Edited by PerfectDuck, 15 December 2015 - 03:39 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

I agree with Mr Duck here for the most part.
Protect NEW players yes.
Protect players who refuse to teamwork/group/socialize HELL NO.
MWO has a horrid section of the "community" that simply will not do anything social or mmo-like. We already have a solo Q and frankly it's a mess with just as many if not MORE stomps than in CW. New players and the johnny solo rambos STILL get thrown in vs very good players and they STILL get roflstomped, but that's ok because they are "soloing" right? What about those solo games where one team talks to the other and curbstomps the other? Is that "fair?" Not by the angry solo army's definition but it's still "ok" because it's solo Q....
EH?!
Getting fed up to my boots with the pro solo raging about a group oriented game mode, it is not hard or time consuming to get on your faction's TS..you don't have to speak only be able to listen. It takes minimal time investment for a greater reward.
Getting to know other players in your faction and making friends is how the community is put in COMMUNITY warfare. Community isn't made in total silence, 10 minutes at a time.

So TL;DR Protect new players YES.
Protect anti socials/chip-on-shoulder brigade HELL NO.

[Karamarka]

yes there is a problem but it is not a problem premade vs pug

what about the veteran pugs vs new player pugs, going to ban them to their own veteran circle too?

lets run many matchmakers at once.

1) veterans only
2) premade only
3) unit premade only
4) new player only
5) normal player only

enjoy

[Varvar86]

Updated...

I found THIS

Looks like problem solved.
here 2:15

Edited by Varvar86, 15 December 2015 - 06:42 AM.