158 replies to this topic

[Barkem Squirrel]

Three gates that we could have as a requirement for entering CW are on mastering mechs, a flat xp amount or number of games.

mastering mechs
1 Have one mech mastered (one mech mastered forces them to have over 130,000 xp)
2 Have two mechs mastered two mechs mastered forces them to have over 150,000 xp
3 Have one mech mastered in two weight classes. two mechs mastered in two weight classes forces them to have over 300,000 xp.

total xp
1 100,000 xp
2 200,000 xp
3 300,000 xp

number of games
1 100 games
2 200 games
3 300 games

There has to be a work around to this.
Be part of a unit that drops where half of the players meet the any requirement. One teacher and one student minimum.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 22 December 2015 - 09:15 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Bump, because this s%$t is important!

[DarklightCA]

What Community Warfare needs is a proper in-game recruitment hub where player's can find Unit's and Unit's can find players. Digging through hundreds of forum topics is not in any way effective. Community Warfare needs to be taken back from pug mentality and turned into what it was meant to be which is a Unit vs Unit planetary conquest gamemode.

I hope in phase 3 with the launch of planetary rewards that it will generate more Unit interest like at the start of Community Warfare and during Tukkyaid events but without a way to start transforming the horde of solo que pug's into functional unit's even that will likely not be enough to overly change the gameplay.

Community Warfare will always have player's complaining and bitching about player's better than them and grouped teams. Even if you split the ques, effectively destroying grouped play because there are not enough Unit's in Community Warfare right now to have there own que. All those player's will do is still kick your *** in solo que and those teams sync drop with their players. MWO is a team oriented game and Community Warfare even more so, player's who join Unit's and play with a team should be rewarded for doing so rather than nerfed or destroyed.

Pug mentality will always be a thing in Community Warfare, it's not something that can be stopped but enforcing pug mentality as the main aspect of this game is a completely horrible idea. Never create separate ques, create new and interesting ways to rewards players for playing with Unit's and setup a system that makes that a lot easier. The answer to seal clubbing? Stop being seals. Grouping up with other people is not hard. There is a regular que if you want to be a solo cowboy rushing off to do stupid stuff while ignoring what your team is doing.

Edited by l)arklight, 13 January 2016 - 02:11 AM.

[sycocys]

Time for split queues. We don't need to be dropping our groups against the pugs anyhow.

[Sandpit]

Simply prevent players from joining it until they complete cadet bonus
problem solved

If you can't handle new players beyond that, be a better representative for your faction

[Hayek Lahiri]

Sandpit, on 13 January 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

Simply prevent players from joining it until they complete cadet bonus
problem solved

If you can't handle new players beyond that, be a better representative for your faction

But that would mean they would have one mech of their own and have to stick to using trails.

Edited by Platinum Top, 13 January 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[Lupis Volk]

Platinum Top, on 13 January 2016 - 01:54 PM, said:

But that would mean they would have one mech of their and have to stick to using trails.

only if they brought a clan mech. i got three IS mechs with my cadet bonus.

[Hayek Lahiri]

Lupis Volk, on 13 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

only if they brought a clan mech. i got three IS mechs with my cadet bonus.

Oh yeah, I forgot there was the cadet bonus.

[Ace Selin]

slide, on 14 December 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

You won't get more players as long as ridiculous stomps keep happening or people can't feel like they can contribute.

You wont ever stop stomps. They are just much more noticeable in CW due to 4 games in 1.
Look at how many stomps happen in solo and group queue. Now when you get stomped imagine if you played exactly the same team 3 more times with your same guys, the likelihood is 3 more stomps.



Whilst i agree to gating players into CW, this needs to be relaxed if they are in a group. We currently have a few near new players only in trial mechs with our unit in CW, win or lose we talk trash, laugh at ourselves (sometimes at how bad we play drunk) and have a blast with a few angry moans occasionally.

Edited by Ace Selin, 13 January 2016 - 02:55 PM.

[slide]

Ace Selin, on 13 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

You wont ever stop stomps. They are just much more noticeable in CW due to 4 games in 1.
Look at how many stomps happen in solo and group queue. Now when you get stomped imagine if you played exactly the same team 3 more times with your same guys, the likelihood is 3 more stomps.

I agree that no match maker in the world will prevent stomps entirely, it is the nature of the game that things can spiral out of control.

But the difference is that a stomp can happen either way in a pug v pug match up, or for that matter in a premade v premade match up. However a stomp is almost guaranteed if the match up is premade v pug, more so if that pug consists mostly of new players. It's the premade stomp that people cannot swallow much of and that is what chases people out of the game mode if not the game.

As I have stated previously I have seen closed beta veterans with hundreds of dollars invested in this game get stomped by good teams and leave this game never to be seen again because of this type of crap. A steam noob, with nothing more than the time taken to download the game invested, is going to drop this game in the time it takes them to find the un-install button.

Advice like
-git gud
-join a unit
-group on a faction hub
etc, etc

is only useful if a new player actually visits the forums to find a unit or get advice. It is well known that >90% of the players never visit the forums, so they will never get the good advice that can be found here. Their first and most likely last impression of this game will be this.


(note this picture was posted in another thread by the team involved, I am not attempting to name and shame just illustrate a point)

The result of games like this is not only losing players, but bad reviews in other media which reduces the number of incoming new players which ultimately effects us all.

You will not get more players in CW if they don't get a chance to learn how to play the game. They will not get the chance if the above continues to happen, which it does all to regularly. Anyone who fails to see that has their own agenda, one which is not for the overall benefit of the game.

Edited by slide, 13 January 2016 - 11:13 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

slide, on 13 January 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

The result of games like this is not only losing players, but bad reviews in other media which reduces the number of incoming new players which ultimately effects us all.

Thank god someone else sees this. I though I was going crazy.

[DarklightCA]

I am going crazy because games like those are the results of 12 man's using skill, teamwork, coordination against a team of individuals using none of those. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about faction warfare that it is the "hard mode" of MWO. It's designed as a Unit conquest gamemode, there are going to be 12 man's running around trying to play the game like it was designed for.

Individual player's who join CW with trial mechs with the intent to solo que should expect to meet 12 man's. World of Tank's has the exact same type of setup with there own conquest map full of competitive team's all beating the hell out of each other and you know what? It's a damn popular and successful game. You know why? because all those individual player's are only put in regular que and if any of those player's wanted to play on the conquest map, they had to find a clan or create there own with friends which is easily done with the games recruitment hub that makes finding clan's or clan's finding player's easy.

Your train of thought is expecting to take somebody who is bad at video games, put him into competitive match making in CS:GO then blame all the team's that stomp him because they are more experienced and playing more coordinated than his team. When the only people who should be playing CS:GO competitive are the ones playing with a team or going in solo fully aware they could get stomped as it's competitive, not regular que.

12 man's playing Community Warfare shouldn't have to apologize for winning the game or expect to give massive advantages to player's who CHOOSE to have no advantage by dropping as a solo player or as a solo player with trial mechs in a gamemode about Unit's conquering planet's for there faction's. Stop blaming 12 man's, Unit's and premades for the down fall of Community Warfare. This gamemode needs to be turned back into what it was meant to be which is a Unit vs Unit planetary conquest gamemode and leave regular que for the all those player's who want to solo que this game and not get stomped by 12 man team's.

Edited by l)arklight, 14 January 2016 - 02:50 AM.

[Raubwurst]

Well with CW Phase 3 there will be some kind of Group and PUG separation. This will help preventing such outcomes...

Source:

Spoiler

Raubwurst, on 14 January 2016 - 02:08 AM, said:

[Aunoor]

l)arklight, on 14 January 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

I am going crazy because games like those are the results of 12 man's using skill, teamwork [...].

Just answer: we have stable online and enough players to setup 12 premade groups all time?
Ok, lets remove new and solo players from queue and how much time you will be wait for drop? 10 minuts, 20, 30?
Most of drops is PUGS vs PUGS. Or small groups+pugs vs pugs.
And what must do a small units with 3-4 players? Just dissolve this unit and go to MS? And what we get at the end? Two big units?
And why you think, that player which just want try CW will invest his time and money to unknown mode for him?

[MechWarrior3671771]

l)arklight, on 14 January 2016 - 01:46 AM, said:

I am going crazy because games like those are the results of 12 man's using skill, teamwork, coordination against a team of individuals using none of those. I don't understand what is so difficult to understand about faction warfare that it is the "hard mode" of MWO.

Hard mode? Their is no skill involved in shutting out newbies 48-0. You might as well pick a fight with a crippled kid.

[DarklightCA]

Aunoor, on 14 January 2016 - 02:58 AM, said:

Just answer: we have stable online and enough players to setup 12 premade groups all time?
Ok, lets remove new and solo players from queue and how much time you will be wait for drop? 10 minuts, 20, 30?
Most of drops is PUGS vs PUGS. Or small groups+pugs vs pugs.
And what must do a small units with 3-4 players? Just dissolve this unit and go to MS? And what we get at the end? Two big units?
And why you think, that player which just want try CW will invest his time and money to unknown mode for him?

I am not stating remove solo players from ques, that is just how World of Tank's does it and they are a much more popular game with the population to support it. However point being that it works for them and this current system of allowing solo quer's to dominate a Unit gamemode isn't working for us.

There are a lot of Unit's out there in this game that has population that don't play Community Warfare because there is nothing for them and the fight's they get are not worth the effort because there is no challenge when all the fights are unorganized pug team's that make playing the game dull and boring.

Turning Community Warfare into more of a Unit vs Unit gamemode with bigger incentives for player's to play it with Unit's would help bring in more Unit's to play the gamemode and bring out more premade vs premade matches. As for low populated Unit's, they are low populated because gaining members is ridiculously hard in this game. Your biggest source of recruitment is the MWO forums where player's have to dig through hundreds of topics and just hope they read yours or hope there are a number of unitless player's looking for a unit on the teamspeak you regulate.

As I suggested, a ingame recruitment hub would help smaller unit's increase there member base by hopefully recruiting a lot of these unitless pug's that dominate the Community Warfare population. Majority of this game's population are player's without a Unit who are obviously having a hard time finding one and are untapped resources for all these small unit's struggling with population to play Community Warfare effectively.

Regular que should be modified to give solo player's a much better experience by reducing group's to 4 player's max and tweaking the match maker more. Community Warfare should be modified to give grouped player's a much better experience by give them incentives to be grouped in CW and making it a lot easier for player's to do so. For a gamemode about Unit conquest, it's way too ridiculously populated by solo player's. Giving that population the tools and incentive to create/join organized unit's to play Community Warfare would help the gameplay and reduce the ammount of QQ about premades stomping unorganized pug's in a gamemode about Unit conquest.

[DarklightCA]

Fen Tetsudo, on 14 January 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Hard mode? Their is no skill involved in shutting out newbies 48-0. You might as well pick a fight with a crippled kid.

Yes but I bet those newbies don't consider it easy mode and who we fight is not our choice or problem. We have a regular que for those newbies to solo que in peace. One that has a actual match maker that keeps them from getting destroyed. They chose to enter Community Warfare, one that is suppose to be dominated by group's and a gamemode that has no match making.

If you don't want those crippled kid's to get 48-0'd. Get them in group's so they can learn how to play Community Warfare and make use of the advantage that 12 man had when they 48-0'd them which is teamwork and coordination or otherwise direct them back to regular que so they can play the game in a actual match maker instead of blaming premades for playing the game like it was meant to be played.

[TheSilken]

Why not have different planet classes? Some planets would be "less valuable" to the factions fighting and would thus allow only PuG players to drop on them. Others would be "average value" and feature units and PuGs like they do now but excluding 9-12 man groups, and lastly a "high priority value" planet class where only 12 man groups may deploy. This would help split things up, reduce planet hogging by large units, and not require a larger community to implement. Also, it's realistic since not every planet is worth the same amount of effort to capture/hold on to, some are backwater worlds that only need a militia to hold, others see less distinguished units but are worth taking due to more resources than a backwater world, and some are very important to the war effort since they hold a vast amount of resources or hold a key strategic position. You wouldn't see elite units fighting on every single world under attack and attacking every single planet. Instead you see them committed to the most important missions and the rest used to fill out the baseline. Now a question you may have is "if the one planet class wont let 9-12 mans and the other allows only 12 mans where are the 9-11 mans?". Well the answer is simple: there isn't. Instead groups of 9-11 are encouraged to use LFG to pick up other players/smaller groups in order to be a 12 man. That or they split up into smaller groups.

Edited by TheSilken, 14 January 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

l)arklight, on 14 January 2016 - 03:35 AM, said:

If you don't want those crippled kid's to get 48-0'd. Get them in group's so they can learn how to play Community Warfare and make use of the advantage that 12 man had when they 48-0'd them which is teamwork and coordination or otherwise direct them back to regular que so they can play the game in a actual match maker instead of blaming premades for playing the game like it was meant to be played.

We are already doing all that. Its not enough, and it takes alot of time to bring them up to speed, 1-3 months depending on how often they play. So we need to keep them invested in the game so they will stick around and learn.

Getting their 2nd 3rd and 4th waves spawncamped by the likes of an MS 12-man doesn't get us there. They aren't quiting because they are getting stomped, they are quiting because teams like MS won't let them play out the game. They aren't stupid - they play other competitive games on Steam, they just think its moronic to pit solo newbs against premade vets (as it is in every other game).

And while your ideas will work, we need more time to employ them. And we need units like MS to exercise some self-control and not spawncamp the newbies in trial mechs. Let the new players play the game.

They think CW is the main game here and that QuickPlay is the testing ground. They aren't going to hang out in Quickplay until you deem they are worthy. We are competing against too many other good games that interest them, and they don't care about the tradition or history of the MW franchise. Its just another game to them. They will simply leave if they can't play CW.

So the goal should be to retain the new players we just got from Steam. It will mean more people to play against, shorter wait times, and a longer lifespan for CW. I would like to play CW for a few more years. And PGI is not going to break its back improving CW if it becomes a ghost town again.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 14 January 2016 - 05:15 AM.

[DarklightCA]

No you aren't doing all that because majority of the CW population are still solo queing pug player's. What you need to do is keep them invested in regular que safe in the warmth embrace of a match maker untill they develope the skill to play Community Warfare. What you are doing is catering to solo que pug mentality by trying to turn Community Warfare into a objective based version of regular que all the while blaming premade Unit group's for playing the gamemode as it was designed to be played.

I've played a lot of 12 man games and half the time the enemy team won't leave there spawn, they force us to have to attack them in there own spawn. Other time's they will only attack once then remain defending there own spawn. The only way to prevent what you are asking is by forcing premade group's to allow pug team's to act like defeatist children every time they face a premade team and wait the entire 30 minutes out doing literally nothing while the other team chooses not to leave there spawn. That's not a game I want to play.

I can agree that putting new players up against veteran player's isn't a great concept but that's why games like World of Tank's who has there own conquest gamemode leaves that to grouped team's only and leaves regular que for the new player's to play in. Allowing them to develop there skill, knowledge of the game and at some point if they wanted to try land conquest they can join a clan very easily in the game's recruitment hub and play.

What is happening now is PGI created a gamemode designed for Unit's to conquer planet's for factions and it's so overwhelming by new player's and solo quer's that any form of competition completely wipes them then they come crying on the forums. All I am saying is you really need to stop pointing finger's at Unit's for playing this gamemode as it was designed to be played and rather come up with ideas other than different ques that would resolve these issues. Giving player's bigger incentive to play Community Warfare as a unit and giving all these new player's and solo que pug's better tools to find a unit to play Community Warfare with would eliminate a lot of these issues and turn Community Warfare into the proper Unit vs Unit conquest gamemode as it was meant to be and much further better the overall gameplay.

Edited by l)arklight, 14 January 2016 - 05:42 AM.