Irish BoB, on 16 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:
Destroying Omega was a viable way for the clans to win a match without having to spend at least 20-25 minutes killing all 48 opposing mechs. I'm not sure how you can't see the advantage of that.
As i saw it 12 mans don't needed an objective rush to be fast. I saw 12 man ts groups evaporating in under 20 minutes a couple of time with all 48 mech destroyed. So to speak. An objective rush is a little to nothing faster than a coordinated wipe out of enemy mechs. The fastest objective rush was 12:48 battle time on BoT 2 the fastest wipe out 15:27 I encountered.
There is no strong advantage in objective rush - unless you are chasing the wins per minute and this is not really satisfying playing many hours in this game when the fun is killing mechs of the opponents. You may argue that it is faster, but it certainly isn't that funny playing this style over and over again a full weekend long. No the only time the objective rush mattered was on the end of the event to make sure you will win it, because they are nearly unstoppable when executed by a 12 man group. BUT read more in the other paragraphs!
Irish BoB, on 16 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:
You seem to be stuck in the mindset of pugs vs pugs in CW but don't for one minute think that it was these types of engagements that won the event for the clan side. Im sure the 100% pugs wins contributed but lets face facts, its the organised groups capable of winning matches quickly on the last day that turned the event in favour of the clans.
Nopp I'm not stuck in that mindset. What won the event was the last "hour" of the event NOT the last day. And to make it clear only in this last games before time ended the rush was the easier way to get the zone switched, but they didn't win it at all.
Irish BoB, on 16 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:
The organised groups on the I.S side simply did not have the option of winning the match quickly in this way. Even if only 10% of matches were secured through killing Omega within 15 minutes (I'm being super generous here) thats a massive difference........Add to that the large wait time for IS groups but that was unavoidable
Well the organised IS groups didn't had the option, but that is absolutly wayne. Quickly does not mean it helps to achive anything towards the win. Winning the game in 15 or 25 min is wayne. What you wanna achive by your logic of objective rush will win the event, that in the last hour all dropzones on tukayyid would be hold by clans you could attack them when they have a base to defend and you will win with an objective rush. So by the sake of argument how quickly you win is a usless factor. It comes down to winning by game mode. And since pugs have it harder to win against a team defending with a base full of turrets and the IS have more pugs percentage wise within all drops to the percentage of 12 mans/coordinated groups your helpless account of some IS 12 mans finish their game on the last dropspot faster does not help. The pugs which have higher percentage would have failed to win their matches more as some 12 mans would have likely one their objective rushs.
In the end it boils down to clans have percentage wise more coordinated groups within the queue -> that set up more wins. If this coordinated / 12 man groups could objective rush on the last drop zone within the last battle it gave them the same advantage over a "pug" no matter what game mode. Because of this the outcome as it stands i would say would have been the same.
Irish BoB, on 16 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:
It was a completely valid way of winning, nobody could say otherwise.....but if it was possible for us to do the same, we would have done it every single drop on the last day.
And even than IS would have lost by the sake of the argument. To make it clear winning faster only gives the opponent who lost the drop the advantage of rushing your base down in a objective rush. So it only would speed up the games slightly to 48ers wipe outs, but it does not change outcome. Unless you would have MORE 12mans/coordinated groups winning objective rushs setting up losses to have a base to attack on the very last zonedrop of the event making sure you can objective rush. BUT, up until the end in swung around 50% - BY average IS as Clans would have equally much bases to rush - however more 12mans on clan side vs more uncoordinated groups on IS side would have faced each other and the outcome would have still be the same. Even if some IS 12 mans would have one the last game of the event win in 15 min and not 25 it wouldn't have changed the outcome since the IS pugs wouldn't have stand their ground against the higher percentage of facing clan coordinated groups.
@Nerdboard
Nerdboard, on 16 December 2015 - 05:48 PM, said:
Actually more than half my matches against 8-12 man groups during the event were like that (about 15-20 of ~40 games overall I'd say). The point is that on IS side the speed varies much more from mech to mech than it does on Clan side due to the fixed engine. This can prove both advantage and disadvantage. In the Invasion gamemode this mostly is an advantage. No one is claiming that defending the objective is outright impossible or that absolutely everyone can just kill it. But I think a majority of the playerbase will agree that it takes more effort to defend than to destroy it. The result then obviously is that by even distributed skill levels on both sides the attackers will win more often than not. Overall the stats are as you'd expect them to be I guess. Not being able to field a decent sized group tends to wreck your winrate in those events. Still impressive winrate for some of those units (even more impressive for those who mostly won their games by kills).
But this very little thing is not the case. There is no even distributed skill levels. By queue and w8 times coordinated groups drop more often on clan side than on is side. It is more likely to face a 12 man on is side than on clan side. Plz look up my thread:
http://mwomercs.com/...to-tukayyid-ii/ (JUST A LITTLE BIT NOICE ABOUT TUKAYYID I COMPARED TO TUKAYYID II) I compared what i faced when i played for IS and when i played for clans. On IS i did go against 17 times out of 26 against a 8 man group or higher with the same faction (which most likely will be coordinated in TS) vs only 9 times facing an 8 man group or higher on my 21 clan side matches.
This is a 65% ratio vs. a 42% ratio! This show that more coordination was practiced on clan side what clearly shows that the statment "even distributed skill level" won't have an impact. And even if IS would have had the option of objective rushs, more coordinated groups would have faced "PUGs" on the last drop of the event, which more likely couldn't have executed a objective rush. There is no evidence that this claim you made would have changed the outcome of Tukayyid in favor of the IS. In the mindgame a objective rush helps the attacker to win the game easier, but the condition to do so is to be coordinated. And this condition was not matched by IS as it was on Clans. And if this is the case clans could have stopped even easier Pugs with a base in their back, since PUGs tend to get killed by the base and they are not coordinated enough to proceed a base rush anyway.
The speed argument proves to be both advantage and disadvantage - I agree. And yes in In the Invasion gamemode same speed helps to play as a death ball or do whatever you call.
This argument: "But I think a majority of the playerbase will agree that it takes more effort to defend than to destroy it." I disagree and agree since it depend on skill/coordination. With high skill e.g. coordinated groups up to 12man over all I would agree. With low skill e.g. pugs I disagree 2LL turrets or as i call them "non moving ravens" blast pugs into oblivion every single time. In average of both sides this argument is unvalid. Since on event times many pugs come only for the event goodies, which they can achive without grouping up/playing effective. So they do not care if they win or loss. And because of that they tend to be unorganized and since this is the case the majority of the playerbase has it harder to attack a base as to defend it. This only turns for coordinated groups, where the argument is valid! And those are in percentage of drops less on IS side than on clan side.
Edited by Kuritaclan, 16 December 2015 - 06:59 PM.
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