284 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

TheArisen, on 10 March 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

There's nothing always something to complain about.

FTFY.

[Zerberus]

Mystere, on 10 March 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

Ahem! I think this the best time to butt in and say that some people here are way over-analyzing things. <vsmhia*>
...

But, am I really, Bro? I wouldn`t be so sure yet, at least not until December....

Why December?

Because back when the Pirate´s Bane was released 1,5 years ago I did the exact same calculation in a very similar thread as a pureley theoretical exercise to display why I didn´t think it was a good Idea, in no small part based on PGI`s behavior with similar subject matters up until that point.

And here we are now, in the EXACT MONTH that I said the next one would probably come, and we are having exactly the same discussion we had then, in no small part because it´s happening exactly as predicted.

Now, that could of course be pure coincidence..... But some coincidences SHOULD be disturbing, especially when they were forecast that far in advance with that level of accuracy. If I could predict my life with even remotely that degree of accuracy, I´d be filthy, stinking rich.

I say December 2016 give or take a month is when the next one will come.....And we´ll see if I´m right once again in December.

Edited by Zerberus, 10 March 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[Mystere]

Zerberus, on 10 March 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

But, am I really, Bro? I wouldn`t be so sure yet, at least not until December....

Why December?

Because back when the Pirate´s Bane was released 1,5 years ago I did the exact same calculation in a very similar thread as a pureley theoretical exercise to display why I didn´t think it was a good Idea, in no small part based on PGI`s behavior with similar subject matters up until that point.

And here we are now, in the EXACT MONTH that I said the next one would probably come, and we are having exactly the same discussion we had then, in no small part because it´s happening exactly as predicted.

Now, that could of course be pure coincidence..... But some coincidences SHOULD be disturbing, especially when they were forecast that far in advance with that level of accuracy.

I say December 2016 give or take a month is when the next one will come.....And we´ll see if I´m right once again in December.

[Vashramire]

Is this a problem with mechs having ECM locked behind a paywall or is this a problem with ECM? I think ECM should be put in a place where if it is on a hero mech that this kind of concern shouldn't arise. It should be a nice extra on a mech like MASC, not a lightweight jesus box that completely nullifies some game mechanics.

[Zerberus]

Mystere, on 10 March 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

If December comes and I´m wrong, I´ll happily make one and send you a pic.

The big question though is: What happens if I´m right once again? Will the Mech it´s mounted on be more important then the confirmed trend, so that the next one can drop in April? Or will enough be enough?

Edited by Zerberus, 10 March 2016 - 01:59 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

I'm not really sure how this is "obviously" a capable heavy. I fail to see how one can assume this mech will be "go-to".

[Damia Savon]

Zerberus, on 10 March 2016 - 01:04 PM, said:

Hardly a trend, eh?

Let´s see.... 3 years without, then we get one, and now the second less than 2 years later, (1,5 to be exact , which is half of 3 for thoise that are already having problems ).

Do I need to draw a simple graph so that you can visually see that that is already exponential growth, and if kept at the same rate will skyrocket, just like it has with almost every other "Oh, it´s only one, it won´t matter" issue since 2011? Or do you understand basic mathematics and statistics, and can therefore deduce that in the time since the Pirate´s Bane was released the rate of hero mechs w/ecm as the only variant has already doubled?

When does it become too much? In December 2016 when the next one is released? Or April 2017 when the next one comes? or June 2017 after that? Or does it really have to become an every month thing before it finally gets taken seriously?

"BUT WAAAAH!!! We didn´t have ecm when we started, your math sux!!"... CORRECT. But If we take the introduction of ECM as our starting point, it is still a 66% increase in release rate (a Factor of 1.66 for thoise that don´t understand percentages). That is also exponential growth, just minimally slower....

SO everything get´s moved back 2-3 months at the start, but the trend still remains and by late 2017 we will still be able to expect an ECM Hero 1x /month. The pitiful few months that argument buys are practically irrelevant at that growth rate.


You are now being intentionally obtuse and twisting the argument on it´s head in a pitiful and failed effort to portray my position as the exact opposite of what it actually is. This does not even warrant a response beyond diverse forms of ridicule based on your absolute failure to compose a logical counterargument to mine.


This impacts much less changes absolutely nothing about anything I´ve said...You`re still futilely arguing game balance as if that somehow nullifies the language of mathematics, which are the only universal truth known to man. 1+1 will always = 2, and no amount of "this can be balanced, that can be fixed" hullabaloo can or will ever change that.

Im done arguing this with you.... I´ll chime in again in December when the next one comes and time once agian proves me right

*rolls eyes* omgz the maths. Well who would have thought 2 is double 1. So yep, 100% increase in 1.5 months. Still only two mech out of a large pool. One mech is hardly the best of its model while the other has not been released. Sorry but, again, that doesn't mean the sky is falling. As the saying goes: there are lies, damned lies, and statistics.

We could toss out the percentage of hero mech that now have ecm, the number of hero mech versus chill mech with ecm, etc. At the end of the day it is still meaningless.

As far as game balance goes, it is absolutely critical when evaluating the usefulness of ecm. When ECM was godmode it was a definite must take. Then it got need a little but not enough to not make people want to take it. Now its coverage range is greatly reduced which makes it less useful. Plus any mech can take radar dep which anyone with sense runs. Given how many useless modules there are, radar dep and seismic are almost no brainers. If ecm gets need further then people will think twice about the module taking up space and tonnage. If ecm is less valuable then the mech that can run it are less valuable.

To put it another way, if ecm was still so Jesus box then the only variant run would be the ecm one. You still see plenty of ecm free locust and ravens running around. I've seen ecm capable mech without the ecm. I expect to see more of it if ecm keeps getting reduced.

As for your general point, yeah the community has not always made the best choices but I think you over estimate how much influence the community has on certain issues. Are there things it should fight for, of course. What is obvious to you or me is not obvious to the op, bishop or pgi. What pgi really wants to do they are going to do no matter how much it makes you or I want to facepalm.

Not every issue or change is one where you must dig in your heels and fight. Resisting all changes is as bad as accepting all changes.

[Steve Pryde]

Who said no ecm on hero mechs? Nobody. And in higher tiers no one cares about ecm because most guys aren't using mediocre lrm weapons.

[FLG 01]

I am sure it has been said before, but sometimes repetition does help: it's the lore, not p2w.
ECM on the -T is a (controversial) in-game interpretation of the PMA, and it is a way to introduce a unique version (yes, with ECM) as no such regular Archer variant exists in 3052. As the Phoenix Hawk demonstrates, PGI is more than willing to include ECM variants for base purchases.

I agree the ECM is a powerful piece of equipment and it makes the -T attractive, no doubt. However I bought it because it is Morgan Kell's Mech, not because of its in-game capabilities. In fact, I am not really sure how to drive the Archer. But we will see.

[Lykaon]

cSand, on 16 December 2015 - 04:05 PM, said:

Well fair enough
but the grand total is now 2...
plus it's suposed to be the "ghost mech" or w/e

There are plenty of ECM mechs available anow that it's not like the old days when only 2 mechs could have ECM. Not a big deal now f a mech has ECM or not.. plenty of other ecm options, at least 1 in every weight class on both sides if I am correct

I get why people don't like it but personally, not a big deal

Isn't the actual total of mechs with a C-bill bonus and ECM higher than two?

Pirate's Bane and Tempest

and then the Raven 3L steam pack

And every omnimech that has ECM that also has an Invasion Prime c-bill bonus.

Hellbringer
Arctic Cheatah (also available through a steam pack with the Raven 3L)
Kitfox
Mist Lynx
Shadowcat

[Baelfire]

Stefka Kerensky, on 10 March 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

Gotcha, so I think I'll go with this:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0034772536251d4

And if you run a HBR with ASRM12/ 4xcMPL you get the following things instead of the SRM4:

- 7 kph more speed
- cXL engine
- 32 point "laser alpha" at 330m range in high mounts
- TC1
- cooling efficiency of 40% (or more if you remove some armor from the empty arms)
- the abiltity to add another cMPL if you like
- the ability to change loadouts, like using AC's, Gauss or pure LaserVomit

I just don't see why the Archer should automatically be so mucher better than the Hellbringer that he will be P2W or the best Missile Boat. Unless he gets godlike quirks, but considering the quirks of the other ECM Mechs that seems very unlikely.

Edited by Baelfire, 10 March 2016 - 04:19 PM.

[STEF_]

Baelfire, on 10 March 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

And if you run a HBR with ASRM12/ 4xcMPL you get the following things instead of the SRM4:

- 7 kph more speed
- cXL engine
- 32 point "laser alpha" at 330m range in high mounts
- TC1
- cooling efficiency of 40% (or more if you remove some armor from the empty arms)
- the abiltity to add another cMPL if you like

Show us the build with smurfy

[Gas Guzzler]

I'm thinking something like this on the Tempest:

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f078a9132f0feed


Maybe I'll drop to a 315 and add a DHS or armor.. not sure.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 March 2016 - 04:22 PM.

[Sader325]

Baelfire, on 10 March 2016 - 04:08 PM, said:

And if you run a HBR with ASRM12/ 4xcMPL you get the following things instead of the SRM4:

- 7 kph more speed
- cXL engine
- 32 point "laser alpha" at 330m range in high mounts
- TC1
- cooling efficiency of 40% (or more if you remove some armor from the empty arms)
- the abiltity to add another cMPL if you like
- the ability to change loadouts, like using AC's, Gauss or pure LaserVomit

I just don't see why the Archer should automatically be so mucher better than the Hellbringer that he will be P2W or the best Missile Boat. Unless he gets godlike quirks, but considering the quirks of the other ECM Mechs that seems very unlikely.

cMPL are terrible brawling weapons.

[Baelfire]

Then take 6 cSPL and 2 more heat sinks instead. Runs even cooler. On the other hand the LPL Stefka used isn't a typical Brawler weapon either. Compared with a pure MPL build it increases the facetime a lot, for just one weapon and a few extra damage.

Edit: Just added the last 2 sentences.

Edited by Baelfire, 10 March 2016 - 04:38 PM.

[Sader325]

Baelfire, on 10 March 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

Then take 6 cSPL and 2 more heat sinks instead. Runs even cooler.

7 ER smalls is better than 6 SPL.

25 Heatsinks due to no enfo/ferro.

Also range.

Edited by Sader325, 10 March 2016 - 04:36 PM.

[Baelfire]

You know what? all 3 of them work and give you more variety. Another advantage for the Hellbringer.

[Sader325]

The point isnt that its better than the HBR. The point is its locked behind a paywall when its the best IS answer to the HBR.

Wouldnt matter if CW didnt exist, but ti does.

[AEgg]

It really doesn't matter if heros have ECM or not. As long as they're unique variants, regardless if they're good or not, it's pay to win.

That said, the ship sailed years ago so anyone who's still here either doesn't care or doesn't buy heroes because of it.

[Gas Guzzler]

You guys are funny. Keep being you and complaining about nothing.

Quirks just posted.

ROLFLMAO @ Tempest P2W

5S 5x SRM6 with artemis will be the best brawler

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 10 March 2016 - 05:01 PM.