78 replies to this topic

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Getting a tad bit frustrated when I get behind IS mechs dumping laser vomits into them until I over heat to get his CT destroyed. Rear torso shots imho should ignore structure quirks and reward people who got behind them because on some mechs the structure quirks will by far out class the amount of armor on them ie catapult with 21 extra CT hp.

I think the structure quirks on the IS are out of hand, but whatever I'll facetank them with my TBRs and snipe em with my SHCs. I'd however like it if mechs were rewarded better for superior positioning on these mechs.
Not improving crits on rear torso shots but maybe doing damage more closely related to a ratio. For instance instead of having structure quirks the CT (structure not armor) would negate two fifths of the dmg whereas rear torso takes the full damage.
This way IS can keep its face tanks, and people can actually get better rewarded for sneaking up behind enemy mechs.
Sorry if this is slightly jumbled, my brain is fried from exams...

[Lily from animove]

yes it makes some people rather carelaess and save, instead of structure they should simply be armor quirks, since armor quirks have always be put in front armor. And then its up to the player to properly decide his rear protection by extra armor in the back..

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Lily from animove, on 18 December 2015 - 06:31 AM, said:

yes it makes some people rather carelaess and save, instead of structure they should simply be armor quirks, since armor quirks have always be put in front armor. And then its up to the player to properly decide his rear protection by extra armor in the back..

That could work, but armor (correct me if Im wrong) is better than structure as structure is more easily crit. So a lesser amount of armor quirk. The catapult for instance instead of 21 extra structure gets 10 extra armor to play with.

[adamts01]

No one feels sorry for your 6SPL cheetah

But I do hear you on the IS quirks. I somehow thought a crab was a light, so I've been losing trades with my LL shadowcat to them. Then I checked them out. Not only does it have way more armor at my same weight, it was 15% heat bonus and massive structure quirks. I get it has a weird shape, but so does the Shadowcat

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

adamts01, on 18 December 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:

No one feels sorry for your 6SPL cheetah

I don't have a cheetah, I've been running SHCs.\

Besides plenty of people felt bad for IS mechs, enough so to give some of them 50% more HP...

Edited by NeoGenesis For Answer, 18 December 2015 - 06:57 AM.

[Bilbo]

Some people do actually put armor on the backs of their mechs.

[Kotzi]

This is no RPG you dont have bonuscritdamage for attacking from behind. Most people put some armor in the back exactly for those occassions.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Kotzi, on 18 December 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

This is no RPG you dont have bonuscritdamage for attacking from behind. Most people put some armor in the back exactly for those occassions.

I believe I said something about not adding crits but allowing a ratio of damage to be done so that its proprotional.
In any case I've got to cram some extra studying in for a business law exam at 1130. hooraay fml

[Lily from animove]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 06:38 AM, said:

That could work, but armor (correct me if Im wrong) is better than structure as structure is more easily crit. So a lesser amount of armor quirk. The catapult for instance instead of 21 extra structure gets 10 extra armor to play with.

yes but thats ok if we do not crit that easily, also in most cases in CT's there is noting to crit.

[Coralld]

adamts01, on 18 December 2015 - 06:56 AM, said:

No one feels sorry for your 6SPL cheetah

But I do hear you on the IS quirks. I somehow thought a crab was a light, so I've been losing trades with my LL shadowcat to them. Then I checked them out. Not only does it have way more armor at my same weight, it was 15% heat bonus and massive structure quirks. I get it has a weird shape, but so does the Shadowcat

Crabs are 50 tons, Shadow Cats are 45 tons. I know 5 tons does not seam like much, but in the world of Mediums, its a big deal when it comes to armor and structure for them.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Coralld, on 18 December 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Crabs are 50 tons, Shadow Cats are 45 tons. I know 5 tons does not seam like much, but in the world of Mediums, its a big deal when it comes to armor and structure for them.

But, I'm not even talking about trading, Im talking about shooting them in the a** and how you have to do 70+ dmg to most IS mechs rear to get a kill and thats without armor. For instance a BJ has 28 extra structure on the CT which is a 45 ton mech with nearly as much EHP (roughly 75%) in back as my SHC has in the front... Which brings us closer to my point. The SHC is good at being quick, stealthy and maneuverable. But when you use all your abilities to get a favorable position and start pouring dmg into the rear torso you are rewarded with a s*** ton of HP to chew through, giving the target plenty of time to rub one out before actually turning to face you and the BJ has alot more fire power than the SHC.

[Lily from animove]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

But, I'm not even talking about trading, Im talking about shooting them in the a** and how you have to do 70+ dmg to most IS mechs rear to get a kill and thats without armor. For instance a BJ has 28 extra structure on the CT which is a 45 ton mech with nearly as much EHP (roughly 75%) in back as my SHC has in the front... Which brings us closer to my point. The SHC is good at being quick, stealthy and maneuverable. But when you use all your abilities to get a favorable position and start pouring dmg into the rear torso you are rewarded with a s*** ton of HP to chew through, giving the target plenty of time to rub one out before actually turning to face you and the BJ has alot more fire power than the SHC.

this is the major point, the addition of internals made a lot tactics as sneaking up and getting into some poeples back obsolete because it's not gettign rewarded properly anymore. It is an indirect nerf to many other mechs tactics. Especially many lights that literally lived by this warstyle.

[El Bandito]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

But, I'm not even talking about trading, Im talking about shooting them in the a** and how you have to do 70+ dmg to most IS mechs rear to get a kill and thats without armor. For instance a BJ has 28 extra structure on the CT which is a 45 ton mech with nearly as much EHP (roughly 75%) in back as my SHC has in the front... Which brings us closer to my point. The SHC is good at being quick, stealthy and maneuverable. But when you use all your abilities to get a favorable position and start pouring dmg into the rear torso you are rewarded with a s*** ton of HP to chew through, giving the target plenty of time to rub one out before actually turning to face you and the BJ has alot more fire power than the SHC.

That simply highlights just how much buff the IS mechs need to stand up against Clan mechs. It's PGI's fault for introducing Clan mechs in the first place. 3025 tech would have been better.

[Coralld]

NeoGenesis For Answer, on 18 December 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

But, I'm not even talking about trading, Im talking about shooting them in the a** and how you have to do 70+ dmg to most IS mechs rear to get a kill and thats without armor. For instance a BJ has 28 extra structure on the CT which is a 45 ton mech with nearly as much EHP (roughly 75%) in back as my SHC has in the front... Which brings us closer to my point. The SHC is good at being quick, stealthy and maneuverable. But when you use all your abilities to get a favorable position and start pouring dmg into the rear torso you are rewarded with a s*** ton of HP to chew through, giving the target plenty of time to rub one out before actually turning to face you and the BJ has alot more fire power than the SHC.

I will give you the point that the Black Jacks have way to much structure, and even though I love my Black Jacks I too agree it needs to be toned down.

But when it comes to back stabbing the Black Jacks are the only ones that I have an issue with. Yes Atlas it also tough but it was always meant to be a brick wall of doom.

[CygnusX7]

So the guy who can carry 2 LPL and 6 machine guns while going over 100kph wants less internal structure for the mechs he's wrecking back on.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

That simply highlights just how much buff the IS mechs need to stand up against Clan mechs. It's PGI's fault for introducing Clan mechs in the first place. 3025 tech would have been better.

... the goal here isn't to nerf good players who can position their mechs properly and maintain situational awareness. The goal here is to buff ALL players who can get superior positioning on any mech. (negating CT structure on the rear would effect some clan mechs as well.).

Besides IS has 15 more tons in their drop deck what more do you want!? The whole rationale of clan being OP is ********. You've got over quirked mechs a million chasis to choose form (which basically negates the omnimech advantage because if you want a certain hardpoint build there's more than likely an IS mech with a very similar build and has weapon quirks out the a** to offset the clans lighter (less heat efficient weapons.)

But I digress... This isn't about that. Its about rewarding people who are better pilots and can position themselves better than their foes.

[Khobai]

Quote

Rear torso shots imho should ignore structure quirks and reward people who got behind them because on some mechs the structure quirks will by far out class the amount of armor on them ie catapult with 21 extra CT hp.

um no. you already ignore the majority of their armor. you shouldnt get to ignore their structure too.

the problem is more that the structure quirks make NO sense. they arbitrarily handed them out to mechs even when its contrary to their role. blackjacks shouldnt have as much combined armor/structure as a 60-70 ton mech. thats ridiculous. its a !@#$ing blackjack not an atlas. blackjacks arnt brawlers or tanks. they're meant to be mostly long-range suppression/support with their AC/2 loadouts. meanwhile the medium mechs that actually are brawlers, like the centurion, dont get substantial structure quirks at all? it makes no sense.

worst mech rebalance ever.

Quote

The goal here is to buff ALL players who can get superior positioning on any mech.

You already get a buff. They ignore most of the mech's armor, which is on the FRONT of the mech, not the rear. That's reward enough for getting behind someone, which quite frankly isnt that hard to do in any fast mech, which is basically ALL clan mechs.

Edited by Khobai, 18 December 2015 - 08:03 AM.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Coralld, on 18 December 2015 - 07:39 AM, said:

I will give you the point that the Black Jacks have way to much structure, and even though I love my Black Jacks I too agree it needs to be toned down.

But when it comes to back stabbing the Black Jacks are the only ones that I have an issue with. Yes Atlas it also tough but it was always meant to be a brick wall of doom.

Arguably some mechs could still have rear structure buffs. (like the atlas) but I wouldn't lump it with damage from the front, which is why I like Lilys idea, It leaves the option to the player. Keep the extra back armor OR dump even moar hp into the front armor.

CygnusX7, on 18 December 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

So the guy who can carry 2 LPL and 6 machine guns while going over 100kph wants less internal structure for the mechs he's wrecking back on.

Nobody in their right mind is going to run 6mgs on their SHC in any CW match I guarentee it. I also doubt people dumping their ecm for 3mgs... Its a fun build, but is it good? Not really.

[NeoGenesis For Answer]

Khobai, on 18 December 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

um no. you already ignore the majority of their armor. you shouldnt get to ignore the structure too.

however blackjacks should not have as much combined armor/structure as a 60-70 ton mech either. thats ridiculous. its a !@#$ing blackjack not an atlas.

the problem is more that the structure quirks make NO sense.

I only ignore as much armor as they decide their rear torso warrants not my fault they lacked foresight (and seismic for that matter).

[Lily from animove]

El Bandito, on 18 December 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

That simply highlights just how much buff the IS mechs need to stand up against Clan mechs. It's PGI's fault for introducing Clan mechs in the first place. 3025 tech would have been better.

nonsense because this also affects IS vs IS. Its probably even more problematic for the lower alpha IS mechs to properly execute assassination actions form behind.

looks like some people forget that IS still fights IS in CW and ouside CW.