93 replies to this topic

[AnimeFreak40K]

Sister RAbbi, on 09 May 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Oh, we really did it THIS time...

SO, back to the topic...

Anyone thinking of renewing the argument FOR a FW tutorial, since the addition of a Scouting mode? The introduction of Combat Identification, Satellite sweeps ("the sweeps, the bleeps, and the creeps"), and Long Tom?

What SHOULD we want a new player to learn right away, before launching into FW??

Actually, with the "new" (by now it's not) Scouting Mode, a required tutorial is more necessary than ever. Things that I think it should include:

What Faction Warfare is
- Talk about the game mode, how it works (drive home that this a group-oriented mode)
- Explain the different Factions (who they are, why they do what they do... this is your chance to add some fluff and some much-needed immersion to the game!)
- Explain the different Career Paths and the benefits and detriments of both.
- Make this tutorial required before you can even hit the 'Faction Warfare' button (much like how new players are required to go through that initial gameplay tutorial)
Note: the required bits should include all of the below points, but also invite players to go after certain extra achievements/objectives that are FW relevant (example: you don't need a ranking to pass onto the next area or get to FW itself, but there are rewards and such to be had by doing so and coming back and doing it again)

Scout Mode
- Fully Interactive (run very much in line with the present Tutorial Section)
- Talks about the IMPORTANCE of Scouting Mode (that is, why should you go scouting in the first place...may not show Combat ID, Sweeps and Tom in action, but certainly talk about them!)
- Covers Gathering Intel (have to gather a handful of points then make it to the EZ, opponents are enemy mechs that chase you and shoot much like the torso-twist tutorial)
- Covers Protect Intel (have to chase down a mech or two before it can escape through its EZ, may fight back as a challenge)

Invasion - Attack Mode
- Fully Interactive (run very much in line with the present Tutorial Section)
- How to open doors (note, this does not need to be on a CW map, the present Tutorial Area can still present this information)
- How to kill generators (as above, may only need 1 generator to show that all generators are shielded except for a certain point)
- How to kill Omega (can't kill Omega until all generators are down)
- Drive home the fact that this is a *TEAM* effort and that you are better served dropping with/as a group. To be clear, I'm saying a group, not a Unit (but it can be stated that being in a unit can make the group-forming aspect easier)

Invasion - Defense Mode
- Fully Interactive (run very much in line with the present Tutorial Section)
- Have mechs that move and shoot up objectives (open gates, shoot generators) with the player having to stop them from destroying Omega. There is an endless supply of enemy mechs, so you pretty much have to survive until time is done (make this whole thing last, say 5 minutes or so)
Note - this could, at minimum, be a reworked version of one of the Onslaught Modes where enemies walk towards you and shoot, but rather than shoot you, they are going after generators.
- Drive home the fact that this is a *TEAM* effort and that you are better served dropping with/as a group. To be clear, I'm saying a group, not a Unit (but it can be stated that being in a unit can make the group-forming aspect easier)

Invasion - Counter-Attack Mode
- Fully Interactive (run very much in line with the present Tutorial Section)
- What this mode is and how to win it
- Drive home the fact that this is a *TEAM* effort and that you are better served dropping with/as a group. To be clear, I'm saying a group, not a Unit (but it can be stated that being in a unit can make the group-forming aspect easier)

Invasion - Hold Territory Mode
- Fully Interactive (run very much in line with the present Tutorial Section)
- What this mode is and how to win it
- Drive home the fact that this is a *TEAM* effort and that you are better served dropping with/as a group. To be clear, I'm saying a group, not a Unit (but it can be stated that being in a unit can make the group-forming aspect easier)

Note - the last 2 modes may not need anything in-depth to them, or even how to play them...but they should, at the bare minimum, be discussed

I know that much of what I posted was copy/pasted from itself, but the fact of the matter is that I do not think some of this stuff can be said enough.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Seriously. Game needs tutorials. FAILING THAT, at the VERY least, there needs to be a list of tutorial videos in a drop-down in the client. That's a SAD D-grade effort to make, but it's SOMETHING where we currently have not even THAT for new players.

Been seeing this discussion a LOT around the forums and reddit for Battleborn, which was a $60 day-one AAA title by a BIG developer and publisher (Gearbox, 2K Games, respectively). The Prologue barely functions as a tutorial, and does nothing to explain the PvP game modes. And if you think MWO has a population problem, go look at THAT game's numbers on Steam. That was a fairly big-budget title that can't attract new players and can't help bleeding them out, and from the makers of one of the best FPS titles of the last decade (well, 2 or 3 of them really).

No, I'm not saying it's okay to have so little tutorial content because the BIG developer doesn't. I'm saying that the BIG guy is losing players all over the place for, among other things, NOT HAVING A SUFFICIENT TUTORIAL.

And again, what we've gotten so far is GREAT, and a BIG A effort from Dave Forsey & crew (he BETTER have a crew of underlings, including his own coffee-getter intern). It's not nearly ENOUGH of that GREAT content, though. The game would be inaccessible for new players almost entirely, were it not for the helpful folks over at the New Player Help forum. NOT. EVEN. KIDDING.

[Vanguard319]

Boaz Roshak, on 04 January 2016 - 12:08 PM, said:

It also needs a you must be this tall to ride signs. The funniest new thing in CW atm imho are the new people who want to cry and tell you they are reporting you for harassment when you try to tell them what needs to be done in CW. the funny parts when they are swearing at you as they tell you thy are reporting you. ahh the youth these days.

Well, in all likelihood, they are the daycare generation.

[Divine Decoy]

PLEASE fix the crazy NOOB notion that one MUST destroy OMEGA in a recapture match.... I've lost way too many games cuz noobs rush and die by 2s and 3s for omega instead of fighting..... THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED in both the VIDEO and the Game Rules explanations (they not very clear)

[Digital_Angel]

Divine Decoy, on 09 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

PLEASE fix the crazy NOOB notion that one MUST destroy OMEGA in a recapture match.... I've lost way too many games cuz noobs rush and die by 2s and 3s for omega instead of fighting..... THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED in both the VIDEO and the Game Rules explanations (they not very clear)

Hate to break it to you, but those people you are calling "crazy NOOB"s are right.

The win condition in Recapture for the team trying to recapture the base is

1) Have more kills than the enemy team
AND
2) Destroy Omega

You have to do both. Now destroying Omega is useless unless you can also take the lead in kills, but you can kill all 48 enemy mechs and lose if you do not destroy Omega.

[deadlybydsgn]

My invasion tutorial was basically the entirety of Operation Frontline. While it's made me sick of the mode for a while, at least I know most of the maps and what needs to happen.

[Kin3ticX]

Divine Decoy, on 09 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

PLEASE fix the crazy NOOB notion that one MUST destroy OMEGA in a recapture match.... I've lost way too many games cuz noobs rush and die by 2s and 3s for omega instead of fighting..... THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED in both the VIDEO and the Game Rules explanations (they not very clear)

the MPB should be worth a kill at least to prevent spawn camping to exploit overpowered dropships

[Kin3ticX]

Dave Forsey, on 09 May 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

All the forums do get read and concerns noted - but consider just the logistics (let alone the problem of explaining context) of entering into a conversation with every one.

I'm making an exception here just to note a couple of things:
- The Academy sub-forum administrator (me) is actually far more draconian than the regular forums
- There simply isn't that much traffic (topics of general interest don't stay here)
- The regulars here are remarkably well behaved, which may be an emergent property of the first two points... :-)

And this isn't the place to continue a discussion of why or why not PGI does or does not listen to feedback.

A PGI created tutorial for CW seems like a really bad idea

i would probably

-use this rumored official wiki to document all the mechanical ins and outs of CW that are not intuitively obvious, (like killing the MPB on counter attack doesnt end the match) or simple things like (a planet at 100% will no longer kick-off games until a chit opens up from a loss)

-get rid of call to arms as this feature is only used by baby seals which are getting wrecked kinda hard

-add a mechbay tutorial to your existing tutorial because this is where the biggest pitfalls lay. There are so many non intuitive compotents to the mechlab. Nowhere is it documented how external vs engine heatsinks work. For example, many players still think the extra engine slots work at 2.0 when they dont. New players often think Ferror Fibrous makes a mech tankier rather than it just merely saving tonnage in exchange for critical slots. Many many more examples like this exist.

-re-add that little noob warning screen for fresh accounts that click on faction play

[flipperj]

i totally agree, the whole game lacks a good tutorial

Edited by flipperj, 27 July 2016 - 12:35 AM.

[Lehmund]

I think a tutorial for CW would be good in principle, but bad in practice for PGI.

Reason: the mode is snot stabilized yet. Many things may change in FW from now on to revitalize it in general so putting in the effort of a good tutorial may be wasted effort and money that could be put into making FW a good game mode in the first place. I posted many suggestions on how to make this happen here and there in the forums.

For the time being, I believe what would be best for FW, and easiest would be to have Call to Arms appear only to players that have played a certain amount of games. Over time, players explore different game modes by asking other players, exploring etc... and shouldn't currently be placed in FW without knowing what they are doing. We get Green pilots turned off the mode way too easily currently with the Call to Arms. Heck, I wouldn't even allow them in FW at all without some kind of "veteran" status.

PGI could add a single very simple 2 page static image cycling when FW starts reminding pilots of the objectives of each mode and direction (Attack, defend, hold, recapture) when loading the FW map. That is easy to make and easy to modify when FW changes are made to reeducate people. Experienced players will "get it" very quickly even if they have crap drop decks on their first drop in FW (they'll learn). At least they'll know what to do and figure things out quicker that way.

AFTER PGI stabilizes FW as a valid and interesting game mode that players really get into, then an interactive Tutorial is a great idea.

[WANTED]

Yes it needs a tutorial. But I don't think it will help as the core mechanic and fun factor is just not there. Players like me who are not as skilled or such just suffer at the hands of hardcore players over and over.... so after years of trying, I'm moving on to only Quick play. Last night was perfect example of one mode giving me enjoyment( even the losses were fun to play and spectate ) and two FW games just the opposite ( gen rushed one game and over after waiting for match to start, second game was crushed badly on first wave counter attack with nothing to really fight for after that) .

Curious what the round table will come up with to help those other players like me. Until then I will stay away

[Commander A9]

I agree. There should be a Faction Warfare tutorial.

[Tier5 Kerensky]

I personally think getting into faction play is pretty easy.

Maybe a really simple quide might be useful but beyond that, it's mainly about skill and experience that most people lack, not the general idea what to do.

I have been playing some games and since I have only my own solo unit for merc contract, I usually end up againts teams of competive units, and loss. I think it's fair and square. I'm gradually building up a deck to be actually worth something.

[Jon McFuzzy]

There are tutorials out there but yes, a formal one from PGI would surely help.

Additional comment:

A friend of mine introduced me to CW/FP invasion few months ago, 'cause he said it's the more exciting part of the MWO game. Well, as a scrub, I got crushed over and over again, until I decided to completely avoided it. Exciting Yes, Heart break and embarassment, No!

Heck, but my curiosity got the better of me, so I played FP again, especially grouping with a unit where they taught me many things. I wanted to be better, and do better. After all, game is about overcoming challenges.

With such positive and negative experience, I would like to see the tutorial STRONGLY recommends that:
- players to use ELITED mechs, which translate into (hopefully) better experienced pilot, and better equipped mechs
- players to Communicate - either with text, or voice, as communication's importance in CW cannot be emphasized enough
- players to think about high level of strategy - note I mentioned high level, no need to go deep.
- definition about game mode (defend, recapture, attack) - and why destroying OMEGA is not always the most important thing
- basic understanding of things like re-enforcing, getting killed by out of bound, map heat characteristics.

There are plenty of forum threads and opinions which will discourage people from playing FP in the current state - but I guess this thread is mainly about tutorial - so let's not get side tracked.

Cheers!

[Ibrandul Mike]

I agree that a tutorial is needed. But perhaps something else might be viable too and not as problematic as a static tutorial that has to be changed with every addition to the game modes. The tutorials we have are the basics. Is that really enough for FP?

First achievements like the academy ones. So that new players might get something out of the whole experience other than frustration.
Linked to the achievements could be something like dropping with experienced players as a group. For that players could get a slightly different color after having a fixed amount of wins in FP or something like that.
But that would only be a quick fix. As for a real tutorial I would prefer community driven projects. Why? Because they are far more adaptable than everything else PGI can give us.

I already tried to give an example of how it might work. Here is the short form:
Create a new PGI Unit called "ComGuards". Make it mandatory to drop with or against the Guards to get the achievement done. Let people new to FP join the Guards and kick them as soon as they have the FP achievements done. With the proposed system in the spoilers it wouldn't be mandatory to get into the unit to get the achievements.

The more outlined version

Spoiler

The ComGuards
1. Fixed rank system with something like Acolyte as the lowest rank.
2. Everyone joining the Guards gets the lowest rank and will only be promoted if he or she is a trainer.
3. After you get the last achievement for having done enough FP matches (for example 20 invasions and 10scouting missions) you get an automatic kick from the unit if you are an acolyte.
4. The Guards are a merc unit and can't be loyalists. That would give them the most flexibility for matches.
5. The Guards can't tag planets. Not ever.

The achievements
1. C-Bill achievements like the academy ones for Scouting and Invasion.
2. Perquisite for the achievement is that you play with or against a Guards group of 2in Scouting or 4 in Invasion.
3.1 Another achievement for having all the others from FP that gives you the ComStar and Word of Blake Decals (not yet implemented)
3.2 Alternatively titles or both. But I think there are many that would love to have those two decals.


Reasons for being an instructor/trainer
1. Helping the community.
2. Getting the decals faster as just with luck.
3. An incentive like biweekly MC injections if at least x FP matches are played (with acolytes together). If possible even to another account that is linked? So that they don't have to be away from their friends all the time.

Yes it would still be gameable. For example could acolytes drop without superiors which would in the beginning make the system quite obsolete. But the community is good and helpful. I am quite sure there will be enough people willing to help. And with the MC incentive it might even get people helping for a longer period especially if people can get MC for another account.
It would be much work and it would need a few trainers from different time zones... but this system is far more flexible and might be much less work for PGI after the setup than good tutorials. And it would probably take much less time to implement.

[FEK315]

I absolutely agree there need to be TUTORIALS!!!
They aren't just for knewbs, there are return players that need to get back up to speed.

I mean to be a Jaqazz here, do you realize if every person that posted in this thread wrote or videoed one tutorial about the topics you want returnees and knewbs to know about created one this wouldn't be a Btch session?

I am a returnee, and I would love to know how to use a Longtom.

So now instead of insulting me because you know more then me. Please help a person that wants to play understand the game better so this awesome community can grow.

Here is an opportunity MechaBros write me a brief tutorial on Longtoms...the basics are fine. Thank you gentlemen

FEK315...OUT!

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Almost three years since this thread was started, and what has PGI done to remedy this problem?

Hey kid, wanna buy a mechpack?

[TooDumbToQuit]

Divine Decoy, on 09 July 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

PLEASE fix the crazy NOOB notion that one MUST destroy OMEGA in a recapture match.... I've lost way too many games cuz noobs rush and die by 2s and 3s for omega instead of fighting..... THIS NEEDS TO BE EXPLAINED in both the VIDEO and the Game Rules explanations (they not very clear)

I understand your point. Yes, you do need to destroy it to win. But you need to have a kill lead or at least be even first.

I'm sure it is possible for you to have the last mech standing and he has no weapons or is out of ammo so he cannot destroy it but I doubt this has ever happened.

I know what you are talking about. When the contest is uncertain or you are even down 2 and someone starts shooting Omega instead of fighting for the kill lead. The fix for this is really simple. When we drop I explain this to everyone even if they all might know it. And if needed, I repeat it as often as possible.

One of the biggest problems I've ran into when starting is the almost total lack of help and info from more experienced players. Many are flat out asses. I had done 100's of them before someone (Yushi) told me that to destroy generators, you have to shoot at a window which is always facing the cannon. Last night with my Unit, I found out that a lot of people went through the same thing.

BECAUSE NO ONE TOLD THEM. Instead, older players would rather semi try then blame everything on the "pugs" and then basically quit. Or use them as meat shields just to get their own damage. The worse thing is when they cuss them out and tell them to go back to QP and never come back.

On the other hand, a few months ago I was with a total IS pug group and this one player (I'm so mad I forget this name even though I'm sure he is a "friend") did an awesome job of leading 12 pugs in 2 victories over a "well known" Unit. He was positive and insistent. He went over his plan and repeated it over and over and the reason behind it. Two others and I bought in quick and helped him kept everyone on the same page. If someone was lagging behind, we waited. We did not gather too close to a gate which is a common mistake. Very good players will often send out an ECM light or two to catch stragglers but we did not allow this to happen. And I explained what a "tail end charlie" was. I'm still amazed that many units do not do this. It simply means that the last man's job is to look backwards as much and as often as possible.

On the first one, we even had a new guy shoot at the gate, lol until we told him not to and to get back. If you can see the gate, chances are, they can see you.

A Tutorial would be great. But until it happens, YOU and I are the tutorial.

What is needed besides simple info is a place where a player can go like one of the testing grounds where he can walk the maps and see where things are and to simply get to know the maps. Knowing the map is a huge difference maker. But few players are going to spend the time to do it unless they are paid. So there needs to be some small rewards for each step. Open a gate, get 10,000 C-Bills, shoot a turret get 5,000 C-Bills. Kill a generator, find their dropzone etc etc.

To show the most used paths, make it like the one at the Academy where you run through checkpoints that light up then go away.

I wish PGI would create NPC mechs and units. New players can drop with some and fight others. But if you just say "NPCs", all you hear is crickets.

And I still think they are the answer to extra long waits and Ghost Drops. Allow the option to fight the "Local Militia" if you want to. These would not be Mechs but armor, everything from tracked Tanks to hovercraft. This will also allow PGI to add all those vehicles that are nowhere in this game. And I'd give them personalities. One Unit is very careful and stays back under cover while another commander is all about attack. And some are simply good and some are not. But you do not know which is which.

Now that is for pug groups. Units, the better they are, they harder the NPC unit they face. And no one says it has to be 48-48. They might have a lot more and a lot more on the battlefield at a time. And they are not coming out of dropships, they are either "moving there" as now they know where the attack is coming(so the slower you attack, the more of them will be there) from or they might all be there waiting for you in lines of defense.

If nothing else, this would stop the better units from simply padding their stats on pugs.

[FEK315]

Boogie138, on 12 September 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

Almost three years since this thread was started, and what has PGI done to remedy this problem?


Hey kid, wanna buy a mechpack?

Nice knewb advice and as a returning Vet I had no idea that it takes money to run a business...

It takes a community to keep a game afloat.

I meant something short and little known like this..(yes because I am perfect :-p )


Here is also a little help to know if your mic is working, maybe this is common knowledge but:
1. Your speaker Icon at the end of your name in the pregame lobby will turn green when you speak.
2. When you speak in game your name will appear at the the bottom of the screen in a box for the length of your speech.
3. When speaking ask questions so some one will answer you back.

Personally, I like the ruff sounding bad coms, they add life to the game. Posted Image


***Be nice to knewbs, they are the life blood of this game. With out them you have no game.***


Just something that will help people to understand the game better or a little known fact that helps a great deal.

[Commander A9]

We could always make one...

You know, couple of videos, maybe some aspiring 3D animator might edit in a pilot or instructor dude...