66 replies to this topic

[Russhuster]

for some people one seems to be needing background laughters and and pink coloured letters for adressing sarcasm

Aunt Edit(h) told me to keep contennance, and not to use such open goals, so i erased some lines about loosely used hand, tail and where some of your foam may come from
Mayhaps not everyone has a froth stained monitor,.. please do not judge others from your uses

Edited by Russhuster, 27 December 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Half Ear]

Spadejack, on 26 December 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

@ Divine Evil

Well, you obviously are a IS fan boy, as such, all of your comments are ignored...

Start doing CW yesterday as IS and the result was... AMAZING!!!! 2500 dmg 16 kills
Only in a very good day you could do that on the clan side... Thunderbolts FTW

Majority of that is due to the increased tonnage. Exclude the newbies/steamers trial mechs, IS has more diversity in its mech selection than clans do, and experienced players, especially in units, can take advantage of that. But the tonnage increase appears to have been aimed more at the newbie/steamers than the vet units on both sides. Due to the lack effective Clan mechs within specific ranges, even a 10-ton increase would see a much smaller impact.

Overall though is that the standard IS forces are also coming to the conclusion that trying to play the peek/fire vs Clans puts them at a disadvantage, and those merc units that switched from Clan to IS are even more aware of it. With the weight (and structural quirks) increase it allows them to soak up more damage while getting closer. It still does not help the pugs that still play the peekaboo theme and many do not take advantage of the weight increase.

In short, an overall tonnage increase was not well-thought out from an overall view, and/or PGI is also experimenting. It also does not help that a majority of mercs switched sides to IS to take advantage of it, leaving those who consider themselves Loyalties and new pugs to defend, becoming easy pickings. Now if more of said mercs were drop on IS worlds instead of Clans, then the only things we would be hearing is such and such broke a treaty!?!?! Why?!?! And daresay if Clan were to attack Clan, eg Trials of Possession, etc there would be nothing to speak of.

Edited by Half Ear, 27 December 2015 - 05:12 PM.

[Roland09]

This, above.

Also, IS pilots now tend to bring heavier and therefore slower mechs, which lend themselves even less for peeking. The speed gap compared to the average Clan mech has just widened noticeably.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Half Ear, on 27 December 2015 - 10:41 AM, said:

Majority of that is due to the increased tonnage. Exclude the newbies/steamers trial mechs, IS has more diversity in its mech selection than clans do, and experienced players, especially in units, can take advantage of that. But the tonnage increase appears to have been aimed more at the newbie/steamers than the vet units on both sides. Due to the lack effective Clan mechs within specific ranges, even a 10-ton increase would see a much smaller impact.

Overall though is that the standard IS forces are also coming to the conclusion that trying to play the peek/fire vs Clans puts them at a disadvantage, and those merc units that switched from Clan to IS are even more aware of it. With the weight (and structural quirks) increase it allows them to soak up more damage while getting closer. It still does not help the pugs that still play the peekaboo theme and many do not take advantage of the weight increase.

In short, an overall tonnage increase was not well-thought out from an overall view, and/or PGI is also experimenting. It also does not help that a majority of mercs switched sides to IS to take advantage of it, leaving those who consider themselves Loyalties and new pugs to defend, becoming easy pickings. Now if more of said mercs were drop on IS worlds instead of Clans, then the only things we would be hearing is such and such broke a treaty!?!?! Why?!?! And daresay if Clan were to attack Clan, eg Trials of Possession, etc there would be nothing to speak of.

You forgot one special thing, you dont see much of the IS atacking another IS faction do you? Actually, most of IS units prefers to go against clans, its easier!! I know, im fighting clans on CW

[DivineEvil]

Spadejack, on 28 December 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

You forgot one special thing, you dont see much of the IS atacking another IS faction do you? Actually, most of IS units prefers to go against clans, its easier!! I know, im fighting clans on CW

No, of course not. And these planets we keep taking from your faction each day is just an illusion.

It's easier because most formidable mercs went for IS, since it's no longer an automatic defeat.
It's also easier because it's units alone, who initiate attacks, so attacks are by definition easy-mode, until there's some significant opposition. Whether you attack IS or Clans is irrelevant.

[Jack Spade Ward]

DivineEvil, on 29 December 2015 - 03:27 AM, said:

No, of course not. And these planets we keep taking from your faction each day is just an illusion.

It's easier because most formidable mercs went for IS, since it's no longer an automatic defeat.
It's also easier because it's units alone, who initiate attacks, so attacks are by definition easy-mode, until there's some significant opposition. Whether you attack IS or Clans is irrelevant.

If only all of you said were the reality...
None the less, you are right about one thing, there is a war Liao vs Davion! And im glad! At least the drops have been more chalenging See you on the battlefield

[Mi Ro Ki]

There's nothing wrong with the clan mechs..It's the same problem IS had before there even was quirks..

1) Get some strats
2) Get some builds that work "takes brain power".
3) Practice

IS had to go through this for a long time, especially CW 1 era. Steamies will cry at anything because it's "better tech that is failing them or them failing the better tech", have your pick.

And i don't think people have grasped the concept of how mercs are changing CW ingame.

Also they are paid to go IS and move away from Clans, another concept people are failing to grasp and wonder why clanners are all of a sudden being spanked due to mercs having zerg infested numbers..lol

Seriously though, don't potato... Payees of mercs try to control this game somewhat.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Miroki, on 30 December 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

There's nothing wrong with the clan mechs..It's the same problem IS had before there even was quirks..

1) Get some strats
2) Get some builds that work "takes brain power".
3) Practice

IS had to go through this for a long time, especially CW 1 era. Steamies will cry at anything because it's "better tech that is failing them or them failing the better tech", have your pick.

And i don't think people have grasped the concept of how mercs are changing CW ingame.

Also they are paid to go IS and move away from Clans, another concept people are failing to grasp and wonder why clanners are all of a sudden being spanked due to mercs having zerg infested numbers..lol

Seriously though, don't potato... Payees of mercs try to control this game somewhat.

Clan mechs are really bad now, try it for your own. Change to a clan unit, check for yourself!

[xe N on]

I don't play CW so for me it is irrelevant if I play clan mechs or IS mechs. Even though, lorewise, I'm dedicated Steiner, I do use clan mechs (lorewise captured). Since it does not matter for me if I drop in a clan mech or an IS mech, I would say I'm quite neutral.

Last time I checked my SCRs they were even improved with the last balance update (SRM buff). I don't notice any large difference in heat managament. I just swapped my Gauss build for a U-AC10. Gauss is now meh. But that's for IS too (scraped all my IS Gauss builds too). Still one of the best (medium) mechs, i do frequently even more damage in my SCRs then in my TBRs.

And if I compare my SCR to my SHDs ... really, SHDs are fun to play and nothing is more satsifiying leading the scoreboard in a SHD. However, latter is quite rare an my SCRs are quite more reliable in doing decent. My GRFs are quite fun, if you have the opportunity to brawl, they are devastating now with improved SRM spread. Wished my SCR could mount jumpjets too. But this would be clearly overpowered as hell.

My fav. Timberwolf (2UAC5) also still worked perfectly fine. Ok, same problem with Gauss, same solution --> UAC10.

Were the TDR-5SS not even nerfed with the last balance update? I have some TDRs, but rarely play them. Because of boring. And mediums are generally more fun than heavies. Really.

So, in my case I really cannot see any problem with my clan mechs, because PGI in fact did changed not so much.

Clearly, there are clan mechs that perform "meh". This is sad. However, same is true for alot of IS mechs. I cannot remember last time I saw an Highlander. Really. Not to mention other gimped IS mechs.

My Victors still stand in the hanger waiting to be quirked into usefullness. Ah, good ol times where I used to jump around in my DS. Miss it.

Edited by xe N on, 30 December 2015 - 03:01 PM.

[Steve Pryde]

I outbrawled a Timber Wolf laser vomit with a Jester (3xlarge laser+3x med laser) that I bought today. It's nearly tanky like the TBR but runs much cooler. And the joke is there are better laser vomit mechs out there for IS like Thunderbolt. For me it is now IS>CLan no matter what some IS only player are talking here.

[Jack Spade Ward]

xe N on, on 30 December 2015 - 02:52 PM, said:

I don't play CW so for me it is irrelevant if I play clan mechs or IS mechs. Even though, lorewise, I'm dedicated Steiner, I do use clan mechs (lorewise captured). Since it does not matter for me if I drop in a clan mech or an IS mech, I would say I'm quite neutral.

Last time I checked my SCRs they were even improved with the last balance update (SRM buff). I don't notice any large difference in heat managament. I just swapped my Gauss build for a U-AC10. Gauss is now meh. But that's for IS too (scraped all my IS Gauss builds too). Still one of the best (medium) mechs, i do frequently even more damage in my SCRs then in my TBRs.

And if I compare my SCR to my SHDs ... really, SHDs are fun to play and nothing is more satsifiying leading the scoreboard in a SHD. However, latter is quite rare an my SCRs are quite more reliable in doing decent. My GRFs are quite fun, if you have the opportunity to brawl, they are devastating now with improved SRM spread. Wished my SCR could mount jumpjets too. But this would be clearly overpowered as hell.

My fav. Timberwolf (2UAC5) also still worked perfectly fine. Ok, same problem with Gauss, same solution --> UAC10.

Were the TDR-5SS not even nerfed with the last balance update? I have some TDRs, but rarely play them. Because of boring. And mediums are generally more fun than heavies. Really.

So, in my case I really cannot see any problem with my clan mechs, because PGI in fact did changed not so much.

Clearly, there are clan mechs that perform "meh". This is sad. However, same is true for alot of IS mechs. I cannot remember last time I saw an Highlander. Really. Not to mention other gimped IS mechs.

My Victors still stand in the hanger waiting to be quirked into usefullness. Ah, good ol times where I used to jump around in my DS. Miss it.

Those seem quite fun builds
But... not effective...

Try the blackjacks, those can tank like an assault mech! And try the Atlas now! Those can torso twist and turn almost like a heavy now, and are the most tankiest mechs on the game!!!! Check its stats now!

[Avarice1of2]

A few days before the tuk 2 event, WBH was IS, I was doing a Pug CW drop, we destroyed a 12 man of 228. How is it fair that a group of pugs in IS mechs could crush a 12 man of 228 in clan mechs.

Also try to chain fire four lrm5's at a target that has two ams units.
The IS lrm5's will make it through while the clan lrm5's are completely negated.

The uac bug, you may not have had it happen to you but I have had it happen to me. Each time it made the effected UAC useless. Other people are luckier then me and their UAC still does a portion of its damage. Clan UACs can have a weird glitch happen, where the ammo count goes down, but the shells never leave the gun, and the damage is never dealt. Let us look at a UAC10 for example the bug can cause all 3 shells to never leave the barrel or it may stop 2 or 1 of the shells. Either way for each missing shell that UAC10 is losing 1/3 of its damage.

To put it plainly the IS beat the clans because they had more Mechs in lore to through at them. We are trying to balance two different tech bases that were never meant to be balanced on paper. They were meant to be balance by a NUMBERS DIFFERENCE. When you remove a built in balancing factor you through everything out of balance and then in order to regain that balance you end up giving to one side and taking from the other.

One more thing due to internal structure quirks an IS mech has more survivability with an XL engine then a clan mech. Clan mech get exposed internals on ST it is forced to nurse that wound and can not afford to focus an alpha anymore. IS mech gets exposed internals on a ST with an xl and it can still take several volleys before it dies.

Even in regular quick play drops I now find myself shooting at clan mechs more often then IS mechs because the Clan mechs are so much easier to kill. This with me piloting my PAINBOT ATLAS (ac20, 4 mediums, 4 srm6+ art). So yes we have made IS mechs too strong.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Avarice1of2, on 31 December 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

A few days before the tuk 2 event, WBH was IS, I was doing a Pug CW drop, we destroyed a 12 man of 228. How is it fair that a group of pugs in IS mechs could crush a 12 man of 228 in clan mechs.

Also try to chain fire four lrm5's at a target that has two ams units.
The IS lrm5's will make it through while the clan lrm5's are completely negated.

The uac bug, you may not have had it happen to you but I have had it happen to me. Each time it made the effected UAC useless. Other people are luckier then me and their UAC still does a portion of its damage. Clan UACs can have a weird glitch happen, where the ammo count goes down, but the shells never leave the gun, and the damage is never dealt. Let us look at a UAC10 for example the bug can cause all 3 shells to never leave the barrel or it may stop 2 or 1 of the shells. Either way for each missing shell that UAC10 is losing 1/3 of its damage.

To put it plainly the IS beat the clans because they had more Mechs in lore to through at them. We are trying to balance two different tech bases that were never meant to be balanced on paper. They were meant to be balance by a NUMBERS DIFFERENCE. When you remove a built in balancing factor you through everything out of balance and then in order to regain that balance you end up giving to one side and taking from the other.

One more thing due to internal structure quirks an IS mech has more survivability with an XL engine then a clan mech. Clan mech get exposed internals on ST it is forced to nurse that wound and can not afford to focus an alpha anymore. IS mech gets exposed internals on a ST with an xl and it can still take several volleys before it dies.

Even in regular quick play drops I now find myself shooting at clan mechs more often then IS mechs because the Clan mechs are so much easier to kill. This with me piloting my PAINBOT ATLAS (ac20, 4 mediums, 4 srm6+ art). So yes we have made IS mechs too strong.

I do agree with you, that is why i made these suggestions, taka look at it
http://mwomercs.com/...r-clans-and-is/

[Mi Ro Ki]

Spadejack, on 30 December 2015 - 11:14 AM, said:

Clan mechs are really bad now, try it for your own. Change to a clan unit, check for yourself!

I got clan mechs, play them in pubs. No dramas here, adapt and change builds, it's all i did. GL HF

If it was so bad Tukk would have been a different story.

PS. The idea is to not fill every hardpoint possible and run cool mechs..wink wink..

Edited by Miroki, 31 December 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Miroki, on 31 December 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I got clan mechs, play them in pubs. No dramas here, adapt and change builds, it's all i did. GL HF

If it was so bad Tukk would have been a different story.

PS. The idea is to not fill every hardpoint possible and run cool mechs..wink wink..

Again, i tell you, switch to a clan unit, check that players on the clan side are indeed average better than IS players, but the mechs are so much worst! Try it, get your own experience! Do CW against IS! Listen to the opinions of the most ancient clan warriors! Once you do that and get your own experience, youll see.

PS- remember, pug drops are tottally diferent from CW, diferent tactics, diferent builds *wink wink*

[xe N on]

Spadejack, on 30 December 2015 - 03:20 PM, said:

Those seem quite fun builds
But... not effective...

Those builds fitting perfectly with play style and the results (often in the top 3 match score / damage / kill in T2 bracket) speak for those builds. Of course, you probably could not run those builds in CW, because CW is a entirely different game mode, and maybe, even in 12 vs 12 premade tournaments, these builds may not work well.

But for my purpose, those builds are very effective.

Quote

Try the blackjacks, those can tank like an assault mech! And try the Atlas now! Those can torso twist and turn almost like a heavy now, and are the most tankiest mechs on the game!!!! Check its stats now!

They will be nerfed soon. PGI already announced.

Edited by xe N on, 01 January 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[xe N on]

Avarice1of2, on 31 December 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

A few days before the tuk 2 event, WBH was IS, I was doing a Pug CW drop, we destroyed a 12 man of 228. How is it fair that a group of pugs in IS mechs could crush a 12 man of 228 in clan mechs.

Also try to chain fire four lrm5's at a target that has two ams units.
The IS lrm5's will make it through while the clan lrm5's are completely negated.

Sorry, but if you using LRMs at all higher than T4, you doing it wrong.

[Russhuster]

@ xe N on

do you remember half a year / a year ago or so we had a discussion similar to this
there i did say when the fun is geting spoiled out of the players on clan side they will vote with the mouseclick

The most heavy imballance is now the vanishng Clan player population
Most players seem to find less and less fun on the clan side thats why clan loses numbers faster and faster
True, New Steam players are replacing attractet by theyr knowledge what clan should be the gaps but what do you think will happen when these new clanners find out how the d been fooled?
ATM we are in temporary patt until the new clan players realize the state pgi nefed/quirked the game then these will dissapear as fast as they came. And i doubt the new players will be as forgiving or endurable as hardcore BT and Mechwarior fans

UNd ein Spieler der enttäuscht istkommt so schnell nicht mehr

Edited by Russhuster, 01 January 2016 - 09:57 AM.

[Alteran]

Russhuster, on 01 January 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

True, New Steam players are replacing attractet by theyr knowledge what clan should be the gaps but what do you think will happen when these new clanners find out how the d been fooled?

This is actually a fairly good point. In the middle of October a new MWO player came into CWI who enjoyed the game so much that he decided to purchase the Masakari bundle. Which for PGI is a great bonus, given that a year and a half later they still garner that much attraction. When we formed EPSI he followed us there. In the 1st week of December he's pretty much quit saying 'if he had known that they (PGI) were going to nerf the mechs that much that he wouldn't have bothered buying the mechs'.

Many are going to probably post, see it's just a P2W and he got what he deserved. Others will see what it really means and understand that it's guys like him who actually support the rest of the community that doesn't pay for a mech pack. His purchase, and others, actually pays for further development of Stompy Robots and allows us to continue to play.

PGI, get your stuff together and figure out where you are leading us before more like him just decide not to support this game any further.

[xe N on]

Russhuster, on 01 January 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

@ xe N on

Most players seem to find less and less fun on the clan side thats why clan loses numbers faster and faster

But really, I don't understand why? I find my clan mechs thrilling as before and my next mech will be the Nova, which got a lot of buffs and currently is on "re-scale".

There are many IS mechs, like trebuchet, kintaro, spider (especially 5V), victor that suffer as much as kitfox, Sadcat, Badder, Summoner etc. from beeing sub-par compared to Stormcrow, Thunderbolt or Blackjack.

Much more than mech balance I see large mercenaries groups as a problem. There is currently no reason to play a loyalist and so, the player switch to the faction where they didn't have ranks in and which give them the fastest results.

Edited by xe N on, 02 January 2016 - 12:46 AM.