22 replies to this topic

[Autobot9000]

After a long break I gave this game another shot. Then I find yesterday, that a 2 ER LL commando beats by Direwolf with 4 ER LLs on 900m 1vs1 duel. I had advanced zoom installed, I assume my opponent did as well. The day before a Battlemaster did the same thing vs my 2xER PPC & 2xGauss Direwolf.

Dear PGI, an explanation might be in order?

Another thing I noticed is the reappearance of unbalanced builds. I see people pack only large lasers or only medium pulse lasers into their mech (like 6 LLs on a Stalker or 8 MPLs on a heavy mech). What is all this about? First PGI brings out "ghost heat" to remove such builds - where the concept of ghost heat has remained questionable to many players - now the only good thing it was introduced for seems to be broken again.

Is there any consistency in balancing? Is any "balancing" sustainable at MWO? In other words: Is there even a concept behind all the "balancing" or is it pure number tossing to put up a fuss?

Edited by Autobot9000, 26 December 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[Russhuster]

no explaination needed
they just kept throwing the Nerf Hammer one everything clan and piled IS with quirks like its x-mas and Carneval in one day all day since you left

thats the glorious result

[Jack Spade Ward]

Autobot9000, on 26 December 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

After a long break I gave this game another shot. Then I find yesterday, that a 2 ER LL commando beats by Direwolf with 4 ER LLs on 900m 1vs1 duel. I had advanced zoom installed, I assume my opponent did as well. The day before a Battlemaster did the same thing vs my 2xER PPC & 2xGauss Direwolf.

Dear PGI, an explanation might be in order?

Another thing I noticed is the reappearance of unbalanced builds. I see people pack only large lasers or only medium pulse lasers into their mech (like 6 LLs on a Stalker or 8 MPLs on a heavy mech). What is all this about? First PGI brings out "ghost heat" to remove such builds - where the concept of ghost heat has remained questionable to many players - now the only good thing it was introduced for seems to be broken again.

Is there any consistency in balancing? Is any "balancing" sustainable at MWO? In other words: Is there even a concept behind all the "balancing" or is it pure number tossing to put up a fuss?

Let me explain it to you, on 1st of December, there was a patch that brought a huge nerf on the clan side, again... 5th time actually....
This nerf was so great that, in fact, burried an almost dead clan tech.
Still, most people on IS side will still demand more nerfs to the clans, and even some die hard clan players will also say that "its allright, we will endure"...
Alot of clan players are moving to IS for a reason, maybe you should as well. If you wont, remember that you will get stomped in CW almost every time, even against IS pugs... good luck

[Autobot9000]

I don't mean to make this a clan mech whine. I like playing IS mechs as much as clan mechs. Balance is important, but before talking about balance I would rather like to see something like: How is this game supposed to play out?

It seems like the game has been turned upside down by PGI: IS mechs outrange clan mechs. That's something you can't do in Battletech universe. I mean how can such a change pass? It is clear youre gonna disappoint everyone by announcing you're making a Battletech based game and then turning it upside down.

Good games have mechanics, that allow players to compete for victory through interaction. I totally miss a consistent idea of what MWO offers as game mechanics. The basics should already be layed out by BattleTech rules. Obviously this is a real time game, so you need additional ideas how players can compete for victory. But IMO so far the attempt has been measily. There is an enormously rich body of things the BattleTech universe offers for interpretation and inclusion into a game. I am simply strongly disappointed how this game has developed. I spent roughly 300 Euros on this game - an unreasonable amount for a computer game - only to give this title a chance. But it keeps disappointing.

The balance discussion is to me just the surface. The real sauce is, that if you announce a BattleTech title you must deliver a BattleTech title or you will disappoint.

The biggest disappointment to me isn't just what an average shooter this game is, it is the lack of atmosphere, the lack of "game" inside it. Where are my trial runs as clanner? Where is all the stuff from BT universe?? Where is the creativity when making the game mechanics in battle? But then also the UI is still terrible. Font sizes too small, unclear menu structure. Not even an automatcher system for faction play - unclear where you find your next match the fastest. It's ridiculous.

Why did PGI opt to always choose the easy way and tweak numbers, limit players etc.? Why didn't they use creativity how something like pin point damage can be mitigated more intelligently? Instead they drop the bomb on every issue they encounter. Why do they not consider reticules, that have aim time or why not use more complex aiming systems? Why not use creativity, but instead try to tweak numbers? In which direction are numbers tweaked? What is even the system here to balance? Today IS mechs outrange clan mechs, yesterday vice versa. Seriously. What-the-****?

Edited by Autobot9000, 27 December 2015 - 06:24 AM.

[Russhuster]

to my great sorrow i have to say MWO has absolutely nothing to do with Battletech and even less with lore anymore

it has become some mere mecha robot shooter all it left is the randomly lookalike of mechs and similar names but thats it

I had some discussions about balance IS vs Clan these all turned into arguments and even shitstorming
PGI is prefering IS robots and ewverything looking like clan gets bashed down to moving targets
real Balance doesnt exist not even in considering IS vs IS

At current state maybe TimberWolf, StormCrow ArcticCheetah or Helbringer and EbonJaguar may be usable
if you like assault mechs The Warhawk has suffered the littlest - yet the rest is.-- well i call it Collectors pieces though some say even Summoner may be fun ( despite its puny payload of 20,6 tons

The thought of balanciong via numbers was brought up more than once by many but PGI stated that will not happen
So throw Battle tech and Lore to the trash bin,..and consider itas some shooting robot game then it can be some fun
but do not look for something like Battletech or Athmosphere / Game feeling there s none left.

If you wantto play a easy hitter game chose InnerSphere
if you appreciate the challenge, you may consider playing whats called Clan here
but be prepared to find robots look alike what seems to be Clan but dont be to disappointed when you find out what abilitys these robots have, or when PGI does nerf usable Clan designs on a monthly basis

Edited by Russhuster, 27 December 2015 - 07:00 AM.

[Autobot9000]

I agree on your view Russhuster.

I just can't understand why they didn't give a real BT game a shot, including full lore etc. I mean am I mistaken, if MWO wasn't announced as MMO? I didn't read "we make a Doom1-esque shooter in 2013", I think I read "we make a BT based MMO in 2013". Speaking as a customer I might say: That's what I paid (a lot of money) for.

Why did they insist to make the entire gameplay like a Doom1 shooter with 90s addons like base defense etc.?? I don't understand! The game play should be based on BattleTech universe, i.e. Zellbrigen inside. If you don't abide to Zellbrigen you don't make progress in your clan, you don't win etc. Why is it, that PGI doesn't want MWO to be the communities game? Is it so hard to understand, that MWO needs to be more than a simple shooter? It needs actual gameplay in it (and a new concept for it) and based on that you can have game mechanics you can even tweak numbers at the very end. PGI constantly chooses to do the last thing and skip all others. Also why are maps so big? Its obviously a huge amount of work to maintain+make huge maps. But they don't offer anything but increased game lengths, where most of the time is spent on walking around? Why aren't they smaller, but bettre quality? Who manages the entertainment value per time played in a match at PGI?

I-dont-understand-this-game.

[Russhuster]

because they can
and Yes they can - there is NO alternative Battletech or machwarrior game. if there would be i d be outta here despite the spent 500+ Bucks for mechpacks etc

Huge maps would be a fine thing when put a variety of achievable Goals to it
a conquerable repair station,..a ammunition spot where ones ammo is refilled etc... but so we have the Run of the lemmings through three Doorways

I dont understand that as well
MWOis bearing such a vast potential,.. and its burieing this at the same time

[Autobot9000]

After reading a bit through the forum about past patches I think I got the idea of balancing:

PGI introduces a "perk system" to keep paper values of BT, but making paper values irrelevant at the same time. So we have now a BattleTech surface (=paper values) and a new PGI-based abomination in form of "perks", that dominates everything.

Wow, I must say I am impressed with this rather blatant attempt to take the piss out of the player base.

Game over, I surrender

[Half Ear]

Quote

After a long break I gave this game another shot. Then I find yesterday, that a 2 ER LL commando beats by Direwolf with 4 ER LLs on 900m 1vs1 duel. I had advanced zoom installed, I assume my opponent did as well.

Wouldn't matter. No indication that the DW was already damaged or not. But that DW is also not moving behind cover, or not as quickly as the commando. Longer burn times vs a fast mech so less damage being applied. With Range5 module Clan ERLL at 814m at 11dmg, so 9dmg at 900m? Commando, ISERLL with Range5 742.5m at 9dmg. Depending on which Commando, another 10% range (total 810m) with 20% duration/cooldown decrease or the 40% range (1012m)/20% cooldown. If inexperienced he would have kept using all 4 most of the time, leading to overheating several times, causing internal damage.

Was you expecting something else? An assault is so much easier to hit at range than that little piece of crap you were driving, with or without advanced zoom. Did you take out his CT, both ST or legged him? At that range, if both had full contact/burn both would have been doing approx the same amount of damage for each laser. And with the amount of newbies in the game, both newbies and vets are taking to the sniping game in their lights.

As for the Battlemaster vs your DW, it is all about the lasers, then some. Even if you miss some, the ability to refocus and put some damage on a target, especially with instantaneous convergence/travel weapon. You can not do that with a ERPPC, slow moving mf, or even the gauss rifle. You miss, you miss. Then there is the speed difference, that Battlemaster is faster than the DW, allowing it to get from one place to another. It may or may not have an XL engine, though an XL would allow it to move even faster (one of the few IS assaults with a high engine cap) with the negative aspect of dying to the loss of a side torso instead being hit with both a heat/speed penalty.

Edited by Half Ear, 27 December 2015 - 09:36 AM.

[Russhuster]

fact is with all its nerfs and the tremendous ghost heat prnalty appiled with the fact that clan double heat sink capacity is as IS single heat sink level and the agility Nerf

No matter what the whale pilot would have done he was lost the moment the light did see him
without help the commando eats a direwhale for breakfast even with a single small laser

the commando runs faster than the dire can twist its Trorso

Edited by Russhuster, 27 December 2015 - 09:12 AM.

[Half Ear]

Russhuster, on 27 December 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

fact is with all its nerfs and the tremendous ghost heat prnalty appiled with the fact that clan double heat sink capacity is as IS single heat sink level and the agility Nerf

No matter what the whale pilot would have done he was lost the moment the light did see him
without help the commando eats a direwhale for breakfast even with a single small laser

the commando runs faster than the dire can twist its Trorso

That capacity, as noted in other threads, amounted to a few points total (example 64 vs 62.7). MWO definitely needs a better heat scale/cap system. The cap would have a soft initial threshold, be it 30/40/50 (currently 30) but have the cap increased only by the number of heatsinks (if it is needed/wanted) instead of by both number and type. The scale itself would have more than one penalty threshold at 100%. As noted elsewhere, a speed penalty at lower threshold points, 33%, 66%, with 80-85% and 100% requiring override authorization. 80-85% would be simply prevent shutdown. 100% would still act as it does today, possible internal damage.

Revise ghost heat in its current form. It should not happen when exceeding the number of weapon types fire. If it is needed, it should be done in smaller increments when firing more than one weapon, either done percentage or set amount of excessive heat per weapon. The point here is no extreme surprises when firing 4 weapons over firing 3 weapons. Example Med Laser - 4 heat for firing one weapon within a time period / 2x: total 9-10 ht / 3x: total 15ht. Fire a LL with it, that is a total of 4 weapons, 3x ML = 16ht, LL (base 7ht) = 9ht = 25ht total. Current system would be 12ht + 7ht = 19ht.

Again though, PGI could use their initial Ghost heat penalty and break it into increments down the line instead of gifting us the ease of use for using a lesser amount of weapons. And yes, all mechs would heat up faster but it would still be a more natural increase instead of a like a shot of adrenaline straight into the heart.

As a first run though, I would redo the heatscale/cap first and reset heatsink dispersion rates, while having discussion of revising the big burst ghost heat by changing to a percentage scale, such as, starting at 0.25 to 1.0%, dependent on each weapon but would be affected by how many total weapons are fired at once. I would also review the cooldown for the larger energy weapons. They were meant to be used at long range for a reason and should not be depended on for close quarter fighting.

Edited by Half Ear, 27 December 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Autobot9000]

That's ridicoulus HalfEar. I will not answer to your trolling.

[Half Ear]

No trolling, this has all be dicussed in lots of other threads by others.

Quote

Another thing I noticed is the reappearance of unbalanced builds. I see people pack only large lasers or only medium pulse lasers into their mech (like 6 LLs on a Stalker or 8 MPLs on a heavy mech). What is all this about? First PGI brings out "ghost heat" to remove such builds - where the concept of ghost heat has remained questionable to many players - now the only good thing it was introduced for seems to be broken again.

It is the IS working mechs working to the quirks on the mechs. You have been on a very long break. Did you leave before CW was introduced, or even before Clan mechs? With the introduction of CW it highlighted those IS mechs most effective for CW but rarely used piloted in the public queues, used such as the T-bolt line, to counter the Clan's Timberwolf. (edit, do not remember how recent but PGI changed ghost heat mark from 2 to 3 LL for IS).

Understand that the last patch reduced many of the specific range/heat/cooldown quirks. Some others have been reduced in prior patches. Originally though the preferred IS heavy was the 9S with some massive ERPPC cooldown and range quirks. The T-bolt line hits that sweet spot for weight/speed for the original 240-ton cap. Primarily all energy weapons and quirks to boot (instant hits), then there is the T-bolt 5SS with its medium pulse laser quirks, followed by the 5S with its Large lasers. Besides the quirks, of all the IS heavies, the T-bolt line has decent hard-point placement in the torso section. The same for the Banshee, Battlemaster, Stalker. The t-bolt sweet spot is that it can move at a decent speed while carrying its payload using a STD engine. An XL engine would not change its weapon payload but give it higher speed and a couple of more heat sinks at the cost of dying to a destroyed ST.

Notice nothing is being said about the cataphract (low hardpoint placement) and lacks sufficient energy hardpoints. The blackknight and grasshopper, though primarily energy boats with matching quirks, also suffer from low weapon hardpoints. And using an XL engine for increased speed is asking to die quicker.

So like the Clans, competitive CW players tend to flock more to the few variants that has higher/better placed hard points and energy weapons sync'd to the mech's quirks, though still moving at a slower pace than Clan mechs.

My post was in the same theme that has been echo'd by others in other threads concerning the laser vomit and how PGI is approaching the balancing arena, more so in CW than anywhere else, and PGI attempt to unsuccessful reduce the pinpoint damage by shortening some of the Clan's energy weapons, ghost heat, etc. And not long ago PGI changed the ghost heat ranking for IS Large Lasers from 2 max to 3 max. Again, PGI is building on an incomplete foundation, then making bigger changes for each technology instead of having a firmer foundation and making more minor changes to give each weapon, each chassis, each side a slightly different flavor.

Edit - Just to add, PGI appears to make many (not ALL) of their changes supposedly based on data, but where it shows its greater effect is in CW menu since it is a purely Clan vs IS tech environment. In the regular queues there is not that type of separation, solo or group queue. It does not make it the only way to do it but it is the path PGI has been using, more so since CW went live than anything else.

But hey, you want to call that trolling, so be it. It is your thread.

Edited by Half Ear, 27 December 2015 - 01:28 PM.

[Russhuster]

you tend to oversee a tiny, but significant fact,
In CW you see most of these quirk buckets because they do have heat, range durability and laser duration quirks at its finest and a team with the intention to win is forced to use that Mechs with the IS-for-the-win button

So of course one does compare these quirkmonsters with the usable clan mechs
Whilst the IS Quirkbuckets do have more capacity on the heat sinks the Clan Double heat sink has been nerfed to IS single heat sink capacity in addition to the overall more heat producing clan equipment and the tremendous Ghostheat penalty on Clan side all advantage lies on the Sphere the IS seems to have very little or no ghost heat at all

Remember,.. You can fit in and fire 5 !!!!! heavy pulse lasers in an Thunderbolt without even geting in the hot area, that works even in hot surroundings

When you try that stunt in a comparable Clan( what is almost impossible because of the nerfed payload most Clan mechs have, so you have to remove most Armor both Legs ZERO Arms ZERO etc) mech on frozen City one of the coldest environmets of the game
guess what happens - immediate shutdown + severe internal damage
Try this on an moderate temperatured Card the clan mech will simply explode

TRy it yourself

but its getting tiring to explai the same thing over and over again.

Edited by Russhuster, 27 December 2015 - 04:13 PM.

[Half Ear]

Quote

Remember,.. You can fit in and fire 5 !!!!! ****heavy pulse lasers*** in an Thunderbolt without even geting in the hot area, that works even in hot surroundings

When you try that stunt in a comparable Clan( what is almost impossible because of the nerfed payload most Clan mechs have, so you have to remove most Armor both Legs ZERO Arms ZERO etc) mech on frozen City one of the coldest environmets of the game
guess what happens - immediate shutdown + severe internal damage
Try this on an moderate temperatured Card the clan mech will simply explode

A T-bolt with 5 Heavy Pulse Lasers? Do you mean 5 Large Pulse Lasers? That means the T-bolt has to purchase Endo/FF then take an XL 280 engine with one more heatsink. Or Endo and XL270 But lets compare it to the EJaguar-A. It is also 65-tons, comes with 325XL + 3 external DHS and can equip 5 CLPL

Heat Cap 30+20 (10DHS in each engine) = 50cap before external HS added


Tbolt- - w/Endo, 10 engine DHS (50cap) --w/ FF+endo 1 more DHS (51.5cap) .14 cooling, 1.5 capacity (increased from 1.4)

• Tog Dog (Hero) - 4pts RT, 4pts LT, 1pt RA - base line as it can fit 5 ISLPL
  
• Tbolt 5S - 3pts LT, 1pt RA excluded
  
• Tbolt 9SE (and C) - 3pts in LT, 2pts in RA -- 20% total ht gen - 20% total range - 10% cooldown
  
• Tbolt 5SS - 2pts RT, 3pts LT (another 2 in RA) -- 15% ht gen/rang/cooldown
  
• Tbolt 9S - 2pts RT, 3pts LT, (1pt RA) --15% ht gen/cooldown, 10% duration

Jag-A - 5CLPL w/FF already, 10 engine DHS + 3 external DHS (50+ 3.3=53.3cap) 0.15 cooling rate, 1.1 capacity (decreased from 1.4) so a decrease from 54.2cap to 53.3cap a decrease of 0.9pts wow..
Jag -A 4 CLPL 10 DHS + 8 external DHS (30+20+8.8= 58.8)

• ISLPL: (365m/730m) 11dmg/7ht * 5 = 55dmg/35ht+21GH (GH on 4+) total 55dmg for 56ht (51.5cap w/sustain minor dmg) w/10% module + max 20% rng (only 1 mech) 474.5m/949m
  
• CLPL: (600m/1200m) 13dmg/10ht * 5 = 65dmg/50ht+37.2GH (GH on 3+) total 65dmg for 87.5ht (53.3cap w/sustain severe dmg) w/10% module 660m/1320m
  
• CLPL: (600m/1200m) 13dmg/10ht * 4 = 52dmg/40ht+19.2GH (GH on 3+) total 52dmg for 59.2ht (53.3cap w/sustain minor dmg)) With the savings of using only 4 CLPL new cap would be 58.8cap and max armor.

If one pilot has a Top Dog and is in range then both pilots fire all weapons, they both shut down, with varying minor damage to severe. The Clan mw though can damage before the Tbolt even reaches its LPL range. And the Clan mw can apply optimal damage before the T-bolt can. It can also kill the Tbolt via CT or one ST. Jag is dead via CT or BOTH ST...(and cockpits) at a min.

How is Ghost Heat calculated with heat generation reduction? Is the percentage calculated first off the base then the GH amount added?

Edited by Half Ear, 27 December 2015 - 11:57 PM.

[Russhuster]

i compared HBR with the thunderwubb
you do forget the greater payload allows 3 additional double heatsinks for the IS mech the Clan mech with its puny payload has ZERO Armor on legs and Arms AND ZERO heatsinks

To me it seems Ghost heat is an unknown thing for IS
just look at the Laserboats where do you find these? Clan may fire 2 ER lasers more will drive the heat through the roof to fire 5 heavy Pulse lasers you need about 10 !!!!! Additional Heatsinks to fire one shot and there youre near hutdown in Ice and in shutdown on warmer surrounding maps

so if both mechs are 65 ton and each fire as you say on sight what will happen?
The clan mech either explodes on the spot or goes if its a frozen map to immediate shutdown even the Ebon jaguar does i tryed that
As a result the IS mech has all time on earth to sounter over and finish the Clan Clay-pigeon without armor

To perform equally one needs an 85 ton Warhawk to do what a 65 ton Thunderbolt is able to do

Edited by Russhuster, 27 December 2015 - 10:53 PM.

[Half Ear]

So, you are going to strip armor, and with the expected excessive overheating/damage you are still going to fire FIVE C-LPL to do 10 more damage instead of being smart and either set break them up into separate triggers, delaying more than 0.5sec interval to not trigger GH while keeping your distance to give you more time and space to apply more damage than that T-bolt would in return. Wait, that is right, you need your ECM.

Where as taking the Jaguar will give you almost full armor, 4 CLPL, setup 2 different tics while adding an additional 5 DHS for 10DHS engine+3 to give ya 8 external DHS. 30+20+8.8 = 58.8cap 1st tic 20ht, then 0.5+ sec later 2nd tic for another 20ht instead of the GH total 59.2ht.

So, you should simply stop trying to equate 5 Clan LPL to 5 IS LPL, individually there are differences in damage, heat and range while, combined 4 C-LPL more equal to 5 IS LPL, with the biggest difference being in when damage can be applied and when max damage can be applied. And there are no quirks that increases a weapon's damage.

[Russhuster]

for evaluating heat penalty discrepancies between IS and Clan and visualizing the huge gap between what Is has of ghostheat ( if any at all) and what Clan has, ar isnt relevant but it, ( the example HBR vs Thunderbolt) does show the signifficant loadout gap and the fact that, considering larger IS equipment IS still gets more payload in its mechs as well as the heat and its effects to clan and IS considering
EQUAL ( 5 vs 5 ) ammounts of weaponry in general and the discrepancies of the penalties each side gets in special.

Comparing under these prämisses 4 C LPL with 5 IS LPL does show us what?
Nothing? thank you

So your suggested 8 heatsink extra example while reducing the heatsourche ( and with that the Ghostheat multiplicator) would lead the puropse of comparing equal weaponry ad absurdum

Edited by Russhuster, 28 December 2015 - 04:37 AM.

[Autobot9000]

@HalfEar
You described how differences in player skill would lead to the problem I described. Hence I can't help but perceive that as you trying to blame a problem that might exist in game mechanics on the player without even considering the problem. Your ignorance to the problem description lets that post appear as trolling. Your further posts are more objective, so welcome to the discussion here.

Lets analyze the mess I described:
675m IS base range ER LL
740m Clan base range ER LL

Relevant Commando quirks according to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#mechs_quirks
COM-1D ENERGY COOLDOWN: 20.00 % ENERGY RANGE: 40.00 %
Also the Commando gains 15% more armor on all Torso and arm parts.
That means if you build the command like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...84e6dee67bc2f8e
it will have 25 x 1.15 = 28.75 CT armor for example.

Direwolf quirks according to http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/#mechs_quirks
ENERGY COOLDOWN: -7.50 %

This renders the commandos actual range (without weapon modules) to 945m
The Direwolfs actual range (without weapon modules) remains at 740m

IS ER LL does 9 base dmg.
Clan ER LL does 11 base dmg.

But the IS ER LL outranges the Clan ER LL on said chassis by 27% (!). That means it only begins 27% later than the clan laser to drop damage (linearly). At a distance of rougly 900m the clan lasre will have dropped already roughly 22% of its damage. Leaving it with 8,58 damage, which is already less than the IS laser at 9 damage. But then it also needs 0.25 seconds more to deliver it, which is the same as another 20% damage nerf, since the Commando will move out of fire when its own lasre duration has finished. Putting that into the equation we end up with 6,8 damage delivered effectively by the Direwolf per ER LL, assuming you hit the commando the entire time. Now if you factor in, that the target is vastly smaller and even with advanced zoom it is more or less impossible to focus the laser for its entire duration on one zone, the commandos entire upper front (arms, side torsos and center torso) has a combined paper armor of 97 (see above linked build) times 1.15 effciency from quirk = 111,55 effective armor. Which is about the same as my Direwolf's CT (which has 114), which is reasonably easy to hit because of the Direwolfs immobility and size. Then mobility comes back into play and gives the Commando certainly better opportunities to pop out and fire. Also ghost heat will make sure the Direwolf can not fire more lasers than the Commando at the same time, rending its effective payload advantage irrelevant.

I mean this shows that a 30 ton light mech can have under certain circumstances a realistic chance in a 1v1 shootout with a Direwolf, that is 70 tons heavier and has the highest payload in the game.

That's realistically spoken so imbalanced. It can not be more obvious. This also explains why a Battlemaster with ER LLs will absolutely demolish a Direwolf, since the Battlemaster has e.g. 25% more PPC velocity or 25% more energy range on certain variants.

My god, this was rather easy to prove via numbers. It's embarassing.

Edited by Autobot9000, 31 December 2015 - 08:10 AM.

[Autobot9000]

To give a final statement what I think of balance:

I believe the path to a system, where clan mechs aren't more powerful than IS mechs is inherently erroneous. All the striving for this path is guided by the vision of making MWO a 2013 version of Doom1 in terms of gameplay. It's guided by thinking about tweaking numbers in "a reasonable way", but reasonable isn't well defined. Instead of using creativity to create Battlemech specific ways to combat each other we see numbers being tossed around at free will. Also maps are neither incorporated into balance considerations nor managed for exciting gameplay experience (at least I perceive it this way).

Quirks are introduced into the game, which represent a redundant system to "paper stats". The uniqueness of IS chassis (which makes them admirable and special) is taken away and replaced by freely configurable mechs, turning the system upside down (because clan mechs should be that way). Then chassis uniqueness is reintroduced via quirks, which force IS mechs again into certain configurations. That's mind bogglingly contradicting.

Why go all the ways of creating systems, that bring the player base nothing but the experience, they are forced to do certain things? People generally hate being forced. People like being offered things. Jesus, that's a hard one!

What we needed is a way more complex gameplay. Something that sets win conditions for clan players to credible clan lores and is linked to game-to-game progress and vice versa for IS, e.g. a clan player gets a win for killing at leas 2 IS mechs in Zellbrigen style. Also the ability to do trials to begin a new faction "character" and dueling other players for faction rewards, where is that? Vice versa for IS houses ofc. PGI still thinks in Doom1 universe, when they try to deliver a Battletech based MMO. This is conflicting. The crowd will never buy Doom1 with Robots instead of Monsters and chainsaws. At least they will not do so without protesting and here is mine!

Edited by Autobot9000, 31 December 2015 - 08:42 AM.