137 replies to this topic

[Y E O N N E]

Mcgral18, on 28 December 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

Now, how about you try to actually build a viable SadCat with a Gauss and compare to a BJ.
SHC-PRIME
BJ-1

Mcgral18, on 28 December 2015 - 01:10 AM, said:

BJ-1

BJ-1DC

That's more like it! Get dat universal ballistics cool-down quirk!

SadCat left behind even more.

[Wintersdark]

Wow. I'm actually surprised that someone who's been around for as long as Dimento Graven has been, has such an utterly wrong idea of how the crit system works. I honestly thought that - at least amoungst us experienced folk - we could stop having that ridiculous argument.

MWO's crit system has nothing whatsoever to do with the Tabletop crit system, and one should never be used as an example as to how the other works.

[Aiden Skye]

PGI started a real ****storm with this last balance pass and took off for the holidays in time to escape the wash of vitriol pouring out from the forums as people are getting used to the mechs. I see what you did here PGI... I see what you did! Well played.

[-Vompo-]

My unit went CJF few days ago. That was the first time I played cw as a clanner and I have to say my scores stayed the same after few games where I needed to learn to run my clan mechs. I don't have lot of experience on my drop deck and it is not optimal or even play the way I like to play but I still score pretty much exactly the same as I used to. A bit more damage because I am shooting at more armored mechs than I do when I'm on the IS side.
The balance is fine. Then again the balance was fine in my opinion even before the latest changes.

[Tarogato]

Mcgral18, on 28 December 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

So, going to keep at the childish banter, unable to actually discuss why you're wrong.

You're going to continue spreading lies?


Go ahead and test your lies. Go to the Crimson Testing Grounds and test your theory.
Take a Gauss Rifle and a TC7, to get a greater than MG Crit Chance on a Gauss Rifle.
Shoot the Jager DD rear torso 3 times (4th time he will die, or RNGeesus Crits will destroy him before that). It has 10 rear armour, 30 structure, and 11 quirk structure, totalling 52 IS+A, a potential 3 hits, with 7 extra (meaning death for another Gauss).

Hell, do this with an Atlas on the CT, you'll get a similar result, because, as you say, 3 Engine Crits will kill you...even though MWO doesn't even have separate Engine slots. Each shot will have the same 50% chance to instantly kill it, according to you

You're misinterpreting what Demento is saying... he's saying that engines are destroyed when they lose three critical slots. The Innersphere XL has three slots in a side torso, so it dies. The Clan XL has only two, so it doesn't. In MWO, the only way that that you can lose engine critical slots is by component destruction, and not critical hits. He's not saying engines can die by critical hits, he said "maybe I'm wrong" and then admitted he was wrong (after all, that's how it works in TT), he's stating the reason behind the Clan/IS XL dichotomy and you're attacking him because you think he's saying something else. But it's his fault for not expressing clearly and your fault for being quick to jump on him about anything he says without reading it more closely.

[Ultimax]

Jman5, on 28 December 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

All I did was list all the clan mechs with lots of hitpoint quirks and how much they could have if they maxed it.

Well, no that's not actually all you did.

You're using it as an argument comparing vs. IS structure advantages through quirks (which I think is fine mind you considering engine disparities).



Its a statement that means very little if utilizing those bonuses amounts to sub-optimal pod combinations or if the hitpoints are in locations that aren't important.

For example, I can count the number of times I have lost an arm on a Warhawk before losing that ST on one hand since clan mechs have launced - so a quirk with "+21 Structure" on the Prime RA might as well be "+30% Efficiency to Speed Cutting Onions".


Yeah, it's a big number - it's also one that comes into play very rarely and therefore has little true value added to the mech.



If we want to build "Captain Hitpoints" we can do that, but using that as some kind of argument is flimsy as those bonuses are of questionable value and its not something that really stands up to the top IS mechs that have a total package of Structure/Mobility/Firepower quirks, some of which are on mechs with good hardpoints.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 29 December 2015 - 12:30 AM.

[goatreich]

You know, everything I switch sides to clans, I feel like I'm in easy mode, even with trial mechs. I even invested some c bills in clan mechs so my drop deck can be more customizable... It's really nice having fast mechs and almost never having to wait for the slow-paced direwolf excepted.... Ball of death is much easier to do.
So yeah I think if some think Is is easy and others think clan is easy, that makes the game close to balanced, right?

[kapusta11]

Actually most of the IS mechs that did get structure quirks got half internal structure bonus thus overall HP was increased by 16.7% which isn't that much in practice. On the other hand BJs got 33% increase and have more ST HP than unquirked CT so complaining about BJ being too tough, in a way, is the same thing as complaining that cXL is OP, the opposite is true too. However, the difference between overall CT and ST HP varies greatly among mechs of different weight class, BJ's CT, for example, has only 27% more HP than ST while 100 ton mech's CT HP is 48% higher than that of ST. Most IS assaults didn't get any ST or CT structure quirks though.

Edited by kapusta11, 29 December 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[Nomex 99]

[Moldur]

PGI released a mode and faction system that ensured user feedback would be inherently biased, and dissolved any hope of creating a balanced game by listening to us.

[Mystere]

Moldur, on 29 December 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

PGI released a mode and faction system that ensured user feedback would be inherently biased, and dissolved any hope of creating a balanced game by listening to us.

I call it being reactive, not proactive, and coupled with a severe inability to stick to their originally stated vision^*.

(I'm no longer discounting the possibility that their originally stated vision was all a lie.)

[Alec Braca]

liamjits, on 27 December 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

I recently started using my IS account and put my Clan account to rest just because of the ongoing nerfs the clans have been getting and all the buffs the IS get. Playing the IS is like hitting the big red easy button. I bought the Thunderbolt Mastery Pack and within about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks I've almost completely mastered them along with making over 40 mil cbills I've also almost completely mastered my Griffin Mastery Pack as well.

The Clan account was fun while it was good but it's just to annoying playing it now.

But you are also Clan and have experience playing as them. Playing Clan mechs efficiently takes some getting used to because they have different strengths and weaknesses and vice versa with the IS.

Notice how many other IS mechs got quirked but you still don't see them in CW such as the Vindicator, Trebuchette, Wolverines, and something other than the Griffin with ECM. It is a treat for me to see those and to see if a pilot can "make" them work. Clan pilots can "make" the Mist Lynx, Fenris, and Summoner work but I barely see them as well.

Look I wouldn't be happy if I was standing against a hoard of meta Hellbringers, Ebon Jags, Timber Wolves and Arctic Cheetahs just as you don't like standing against meta Stalkers, Thunderbolts, and Battle Masters. Until the meta is broken or PGI locks chassis to their default weapons config (never gonna happen) this will continue.

Why did the Clans conquer such a HUGE amount of territory before the map reset and, right now, are they joining the club for "having been beaten to your capital world?" I don't think it's the nerfs fault for the current situation. Thoughts?

[The Image]

Tarogato, on 28 December 2015 - 02:30 PM, said:

...

You see a gauss Shadow Cat EVERY day because the STOCK SHADOW CAT is a trial mech. It's a terrible build, nobody uses it except the noobs that don't know any better. It can only deal 510 damage (maximum) before running out of ammo and being left with a pitiful 2x cERML. A 20-ton Dasher has a measely five tons of podspcae and can carry double that along with ECM. After expending your pathetic 20 rounds of ammo you are literally better off ejecting out of your Shadowcat and getting into a Mist Lynx.

It's a trash mech.

Actually, I was seeing them before they were trial.

I am sure we will see them after no longer in trials.

Whether or not they're a trash mech. It is what you make of it.

I mean, do we consider Locusts trash mechs?

We still see them in game and occasionally we see pilots who do really well in them.

[Aresye]

Alec Braca, on 29 December 2015 - 01:10 PM, said:

Why did the Clans conquer such a HUGE amount of territory before the map reset and, right now, are they joining the club for "having been beaten to your capital world?" I don't think it's the nerfs fault for the current situation. Thoughts?

It's because prior to the reset, every gigantic merc unit was pretty much Clan, along with nearly every competitive team.

Anybody with even the most basic common sense and observational skills could see that the Clan side was stacked prior to Tukayyid 2, and got stacked even more for Tukayyid 2.

The sad thing is PGI isn't seeing these things. All they see is, "Clans are winning more," and they're changing balance and adjusting drop deck tonnages as a reaction.

FFS, can we PLEASE get an ACTUAL balance test?! Hell, I'd even settle for another sneaky solo queue IS vs. Clan test, but right now it's absolutely absurd that there is NOBODY even attempting to do an unbiased test.

[Tarogato]

Aresye Kerensky, on 29 December 2015 - 03:22 PM, said:

It's because prior to the reset, every gigantic merc unit was pretty much Clan, along with nearly every competitive team.

Anybody with even the most basic common sense and observational skills could see that the Clan side was stacked prior to Tukayyid 2, and got stacked even more for Tukayyid 2.

The sad thing is PGI isn't seeing these things. All they see is, "Clans are winning more," and they're changing balance and adjusting drop deck tonnages as a reaction.

FFS, can we PLEASE get an ACTUAL balance test?! Hell, I'd even settle for another sneaky solo queue IS vs. Clan test, but right now it's absolutely absurd that there is NOBODY even attempting to do an unbiased test.

http://mwomercs.com/...nts-clan-vs-is/

... not much, but hey, it's something.

[Bushmaster0]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 09:54 PM, said:

It's not all about YOU, replying to several people simultaneously.

All those people, primarily Clanners (and their IS alts) who come on the forums and piss and moan how this ONE, or this OTHER, or that PARTICULAR IS 'mech has a quirk which makes ONE feature match/go a bit beyond Clan capabilities, ignoring the far greater number of IS 'mechs that are shooting at lesser range, with less damage, with heavier, larger weapons, having to suffer standard engines to NOT die when losing an ST....

Ton for ton, most Clan 'mechs shoot harder and farther, with lighter weapons, with smaller weapons, more swiftly, and with more survivability than their IS counterparts can manage.

Is there an actual reply there, or are you just trying to manifest an epeen through an attempted zinger?

Why not try and present an intelligent argument?

more swiftly?
clan lasers have longer durations than IS lasers...and no cooldown advantages

so I'm not sure what you mean by "more swiftly"

[The Image]

Bushmaster0, on 02 January 2016 - 09:23 AM, said:

more swiftly?
clan lasers have longer durations than IS lasers...and no cooldown advantages

so I'm not sure what you mean by "more swiftly"

I think that refers to how Clan mechs move faster than a lot of inner sphere mechs because they are always loaded with a large XL. Especially in the heavy and assault tonnage ranges. Barring the daishi, inner sphere mechs won't be moving as fast as their Clan opposites of the same tonnage because if an inner sphere pilot takes an XL he is risking ending his game early through side torso loss.

[Monkey Lover]

MRR op please nerf.