522 replies to this topic

[Volkodav]

Armando, on 04 January 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

This doesn't work when the pilot never plays in the solo queue....also, just saying.

Yes/

I too, only CW

[sycocys]

The simplest solutions are:
A - de-prioritize the value of having a large unit with leaderboards and monthly/quarterly rewards that tier from best rewards for moderate sized units (~40-50 players) down to pugs with lesser "participation" rewards.

B - only loyalist units can have sizes above certain thresholds, and it starts smaller and works up as the unit as a whole earns points for doing well and staying loyal to a house. reduce/reset the cap if a unit decides to move to a new faction.

C - only have 1 LP reward system rather than individual ones for each house. You cross certain marks and gain the rewards based on where you are at that point.

[Armando]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 07:02 AM, said:

The simplest solutions are:
A - de-prioritize the value of having a large unit with leaderboards and monthly/quarterly rewards that tier from best rewards for moderate sized units (~40-50 players) down to pugs with lesser "participation" rewards.

B - only loyalist units can have sizes above certain thresholds, and it starts smaller and works up as the unit as a whole earns points for doing well and staying loyal to a house. reduce/reset the cap if a unit decides to move to a new faction.

C - only have 1 LP reward system rather than individual ones for each house. You cross certain marks and gain the rewards based on where you are at that point.

One of these days people will realize that pilots are NOT going to stop dropping with their friends. You can 'limit' the numbers, but people will still find a way to drop together in 12 mans every match. If PGI DOES find a way to keep friends from dropping with each other it will mark the end of the game (no one's got time for that shiat...plenty of games out there that not only allow, but also ENCOURAGE friends to drop with friends).

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 07:33 AM.

[Tom Sawyer]

I play for fun. I enjoy the lore, have many of the tech manuals, books, the table top game yada yada.

Big part of the fun is hopping onto Team Speak, hassling my team mates and then forming up into a group to play CW. Sometimes we are 12, sometimes less. Some drops we win and other times we get crushed.

The day Russ figures out a way to take away the ability to do this is the day this game will be dust.

Edited by Tom Sawyer, 05 January 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[poopenshire]

Yet no one noticed how this thread was started by Marik, shortly after Liao Mercs started taking their planets after Davion planets fell so fast?

The puny Marik war will continue. The Mercs have spoken.

For the glory of House Liao!

[sycocys]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

One of these days people will realize that pilots are NOT going to stop dropping with their friends. You can 'limit' the numbers, but people will still find a way to drop together in 12 mans every match. If PGI DOES find a way to keep friends from dropping with each other it will mark the end of the game (no one's got time for that shiat...plenty of games out there that not only allow, but also ENCOURAGE friends to drop with friends).

And none of that is meant to stop friends from dropping with their friends, nor would it do anything to prevent that. It simply reduces the effect of merc units flopping around the map with huge amounts of players unless they want to have a bunch of smaller units coordinating timed movements.

Want to have a large unit? Be a loyal one and have the additional support base (going into lore) of taxes and government that would allow you to have a large unit. Merc units simply would never be able to sustain the huge numbers that these units are moving around.

This allows CW and sides to start to see some balance play out rather than the wild shifts of groups chasing free mechbays.

[Armando]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

And none of that is meant to stop friends from dropping with their friends, nor would it do anything to prevent that. It simply reduces the effect of merc units flopping around the map with huge amounts of players unless they want to have a bunch of smaller units coordinating timed movements.

Want to have a large unit? Be a loyal one and have the additional support base (going into lore) of taxes and government that would allow you to have a large unit. Merc units simply would never be able to sustain the huge numbers that these units are moving around.

This allows CW and sides to start to see some balance play out rather than the wild shifts of groups chasing free mechbays.

Sorry, but this is some BS. If PGI is going to punish people for spending money on their products (people like me who purchase both IS and Clan packs), or punish me for being good at making friends (I can't help it if 400+ people Love me) I'm done, Wallet closed, game uninstalled.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 08:34 AM.

[Kin3ticX]

im sorry for playing the game and getting to rank 10+ in 5 different factions

[sycocys]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 08:31 AM, said:

Sorry, but this is some BS. If PGI is going to punish people for spending money on their products (people like me who purchase both IS and Clan packs), or being good at making friends (I can't help it if 400+ people Love me) I'm done. Wallet closed, game uninstalled.

Or you just stop acting like a 4 year old and keep your unit as a loyalist for a faction so you can have your 400+ friends in the same space while creating a more balanced game for everyone else to play.

[Armando]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Or you just stop acting like a 4 year old and keep your unit as a loyalist for a faction so you can have your 400+ friends in the same space while creating a more balanced game for everyone else to play.

Ya, because picking Clan and letting a fleet of IS mechs costing multiple thousands of real world dollars to acquire sit unused is an experience every players is standing in line for....

....Or picking IS and letting a fleet of Clan mechs costing well over a thousand real world dollars to acquire sit unused is something I'm gonna to sign up for willing.

I get it, you have ZERO real investment in the game (outside of time spent). How about you park your F2P butt over in the corner, keep your mouth shut, and stop trying to get PGI to fark over their best paying customers.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 08:46 AM.

[Brut4ce]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 08:35 AM, said:

Or you just stop acting like a 4 year old and keep your unit as a loyalist for a faction so you can have your 400+ friends in the same space while creating a more balanced game for everyone else to play.

Ahh....ummm...what...? So now let us all call out to the users to balance the game.....LOL!

[Tesunie]

To those going "I want to use all my mechs in CW, no matter their faction". If this was done, then you might as well stop calling the game Battletech, and throw all lore out the window.

Each faction can only use mechs of their faction because those where the mechs they had available to them. The IS doesn't make Clan mechs, and even when they salvaged one it was very difficult for them to maintain the mech. It's not like they make new parts and mechs of that design.

This feature is in the game for a good reason. It's still okay for a CW person to own mechs of each faction. This just means you have options on where you can go if you decided to change your loyalty. It also means you have more mechs for quick play game modes, if you ever choose to play that.

poopenshire, on 05 January 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

Yet no one noticed how this thread was started by Marik, shortly after Liao Mercs started taking their planets after Davion planets fell so fast?

The puny Marik war will continue. The Mercs have spoken.

For the glory of House Liao!

Wrong thread for this discussion. Please keep your trolling to the CW threads.

Also, to add to the point, this thread was created soon after the announcement/video of when Phase 3 for CW was announced. In that video, it was mentioned that Loyalists would be given a manner to control the attack lanes, which in turn would control the mercs.

[Armando]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 08:59 AM, said:

To those going "I want to use all my mechs in CW, no matter their faction". If this was done, then you might as well stop calling the game Battletech, and throw all lore out the window.

Each faction can only use mechs of their faction because those where the mechs they had available to them. The IS doesn't make Clan mechs, and even when they salvaged one it was very difficult for them to maintain the mech. It's not like they make new parts and mechs of that design.

This feature is in the game for a good reason. It's still okay for a CW person to own mechs of each faction. This just means you have options on where you can go if you decided to change your loyalty. It also means you have more mechs for quick play game modes, if you ever choose to play that.



Wrong thread for this discussion. Please keep your trolling to the CW threads.

Also, to add to the point, this thread was created soon after the announcement/video of when Phase 3 for CW was announced. In that video, it was mentioned that Loyalists would be given a manner to control the attack lanes, which in turn would control the mercs.

If mercs wanted to be controled.....they wouldn't be mercs. We go where we want, do what we want (at a cost). That cost...getting to rank 10+ in 5 different factions, but level 20 in NONE (after multiple seasons). Not sure if you noticed, but the payout for rank 20 is just a little bit better than rank 10 (even if you hit that rank multiple times over). I know loyalist reap the benefits of hitting rank 20 in multiple factions already (I have yet to see a merc do it once in any faction).

When are you going to get it into your heads, we are NOT going to stay IS or Clan are we damn sure are not going to only play for a single House / Clan. Lore is great for a story, but when it comes to thousands of real world dollars being spent by players on BOTH Clan and IS mechs...."Lore" becomes irrelevant.

To put it another way, if PGI was going to make "Lore" an important/meaningful part of the game, the time to do it was BEFORE letting players buy all the Clan AND all the IS packages.

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 09:14 AM.

[Greyhart]

it all seems rather simple to me. Mercs have to keep and maintain a stable of mechs for the unit. They have to pay a monthly maintenance cost on each mech in the CW stable.

Loyalists offer contracts to mercs. The money is not infinite so there is a limited number of contracts. There are various ways of doing this but on a real simple level it might be that there are only X number of contracts per attack cycle or only X amount available to pay merc companies.

The merc units therefore have to spread themselves evenly over the factions.

I mean it is not as if any merc company had the right to say we are fighting for X faction and they are paying us for it. It should've always been that true merc companies had to take contracts to pay the bills.

Loyalist the bills are paid by taxation. The larger the empire the more the admin costs, the higher the corruption the further you are from the seat of government.

[Tesunie]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

If mercs wanted to be controled.....they wouldn't be mercs. We go where we want, do what we want (at a cost). That cost...getting to rank 10+ in 5 different factions, but level 20 in NONE (after multiple seasons). Not sure if you noticed, but the payout for rank 20 is just a little bit better than rank 10 (even if you hit that rank multiple times over). I know loyalist that have hit rank 20 in multiple factions (I have yet to see a merc do it once in any faction).

Let me help explain something:
Mercs- A military force for Hire. Also called Mercenaries.
Loyalist- The Military force of a given faction. Also, the people who HIRE mercenaries.

So, if you don't want to be "controlled", then I guess you don't want to be hired as a Merc? The people who hire you are the ones who tell you where to go to fight. However, unlike a loyalist group, you can move far more freely between the different factions.

Also, this proposed system to "control" the mercs have an added benefit. If the faction is voting for their attack lanes, that means that there are fewer planets being attacked at a given time. This consolidates the queues in CW, which reduces the wait times to get into a match. Faster match making, more matches, more C-bills for everyone.

It will also let loyalists hold truces if they wish and given that they can maintain the votes for their faction. As far as Mercs go, it will just limit the attack options. It wont really limit your ability to get into fights and earn C-bills at all. Actually, if anything, it will enhance your ability to earn C-bills. (As one example: If one faction's voted attack lane is slow, unlike a Loyalist unit, you can just freely move out of that faction and into a more active faction who has a more active war front.)


As far as loyalty rewards go, and not earning the higher rank, a Loyalist contract does increase those rewards. So does staying with the same faction long enough. Also, not attacking a faction you have loyalty points in also helps you raise that factions loyalty by not dropping it lower. These are some small incentives to encourage players to remain in a faction, but are not a make or break portion of the game. As it is, even without a loyalist contract, enough game play time and you can get max rank in all the factions. (Where as a loyalist is more likely to get max rank, but probably only in the one faction that they are aligned to, as they tend not to jump factions as often, if at all.) Most players are also more interested in the Rank 2 rewards. That free Mech Bay is very nice. Few players are concerned with C-bill and GEXP rewards via loyalty points. This gives few players much reason to try and "farm" loyalty past rank 2.

[MerryIguana]

Armando, on 05 January 2016 - 08:44 AM, said:

Ya, because picking Clan and letting a fleet of IS mechs costing multiple thousands of real world dollars to acquire sit unused is an experience every players is standing in line for....

....Or picking IS and letting a fleet of Clan mechs costing well over a thousand real world dollars to acquire sit unused is something I'm gonna to sign up for willing.

I get it, you have ZERO real investment in the game (outside of time spent). How about you park your F2P butt over in the corner, keep your mouth shut, and stop trying to get PGI to fark over their best paying customers.

Entitled whales are the #1 problem with this game (and many others.) Wrap your little brain around this. Season X you play IS, then season Y you play clan. Whew, that was tough.

[sycocys]

MerryIguana, on 05 January 2016 - 09:30 AM, said:

Entitled whales are the #1 problem with this game (and many others.) Wrap your little brain around this. Season X you play IS, then season Y you play clan. Whew, that was tough.

Ding.

I've spent plenty, but its not really hard to see that the game needs some forced balancing of the units and factions because the players won't take it upon themselves to do it on their own. Sorry, but that's the result you get when you intentionally go out of your way to ruin the experience for all the players not in large units.

[LeeNTien]

400 players active and good loyalist unit will just make that faction OP and they'll roll everyone else without any chance for anyone to counter that.
Why would you want that?
The recent push of Clans into their home-planets just proves the point. If you stick big units in one place - everyone else will be screwed.
Big merc units moving from one side to another actually provides everyone with a chance of having good games.

Edited by LeeNTien, 05 January 2016 - 11:22 AM.

[Armando]

Tesunie, on 05 January 2016 - 09:24 AM, said:

Let me help explain something:
Mercs- A military force for Hire. Also called Mercenaries.
Loyalist- The Military force of a given faction. Also, the people who HIRE mercenaries.

So, if you don't want to be "controlled", then I guess you don't want to be hired as a Merc? The people who hire you are the ones who tell you where to go to fight. However, unlike a loyalist group, you can move far more freely between the different factions.

Also, this proposed system to "control" the mercs have an added benefit. If the faction is voting for their attack lanes, that means that there are fewer planets being attacked at a given time. This consolidates the queues in CW, which reduces the wait times to get into a match. Faster match making, more matches, more C-bills for everyone.

It will also let loyalists hold truces if they wish and given that they can maintain the votes for their faction. As far as Mercs go, it will just limit the attack options. It wont really limit your ability to get into fights and earn C-bills at all. Actually, if anything, it will enhance your ability to earn C-bills. (As one example: If one faction's voted attack lane is slow, unlike a Loyalist unit, you can just freely move out of that faction and into a more active faction who has a more active war front.)


As far as loyalty rewards go, and not earning the higher rank, a Loyalist contract does increase those rewards. So does staying with the same faction long enough. Also, not attacking a faction you have loyalty points in also helps you raise that factions loyalty by not dropping it lower. These are some small incentives to encourage players to remain in a faction, but are not a make or break portion of the game. As it is, even without a loyalist contract, enough game play time and you can get max rank in all the factions. (Where as a loyalist is more likely to get max rank, but probably only in the one faction that they are aligned to, as they tend not to jump factions as often, if at all.) Most players are also more interested in the Rank 2 rewards. That free Mech Bay is very nice. Few players are concerned with C-bill and GEXP rewards via loyalty points. This gives few players much reason to try and "farm" loyalty past rank 2.

The Clans / Houses create the contracts (Give incentives to mercs to fight for THEM).
The Mercs choose which contracts they will or will not take.

So I have to ask, since when can a House / Clan FORCE a Merc Unit to take a contract????

Edited by Armando, 05 January 2016 - 11:40 AM.

[Tesunie]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 10:29 AM, said:

Ding.

I've spent plenty, but its not really hard to see that the game needs some forced balancing of the units and factions because the players won't take it upon themselves to do it on their own. Sorry, but that's the result you get when you intentionally go out of your way to ruin the experience for all the players not in large units.

I'd like to just point out, us players don't have ready access to faction populations at any given time. This means we just assign ourselves to a faction, and see what happens. We players don't have that kind of control to really be able to balance this ourselves, and lets face it. We are players, and we are people. We probably wouldn't really aim to balance it ourselves, unless balance is always "in our favor". (Otherwise, if the players really cared about balance, you'd find the weight queues for quick play more evened out, instead of almost always heavy in the heavy queue. (See the pun I did there?))