58 replies to this topic

[Moldur]

I'm curious because it seems like the nerf sort of came out of nowhere, and everyone looked at each other and asked "why?"

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Moldur, on 30 December 2015 - 12:14 PM, said:

I'm curious because it seems like the nerf sort of came out of nowhere, and everyone looked at each other and asked "why?"

Likely because it was laser vomits best friend.

The real problem with Gauss though, is that with every other ballistic weapon, as the pinpoint damage gets higher, the velocity of the projectile gets slower. With Gauss the velocity jumps back up to what is pretty much the fastest striking non-laser weapon.

It strikes hard, without warning, from long distance. Sure it has to charge before firing, but the big issue is that it is very difficult to react to. With any other weapon, keeping a decent eye peeled gives you a decent chance to foil your opponents attacks. Big ACs will require the enemy to get closer, you'll see them before they hit you if you're paying attention, then smaller ACs and Lasers give you time to react once you come under fire.

With Gauss Rifles, your cockpit thrashes and suddenly you've taken 15/30 damage, from a source you still might not have identified as the projectile itself is actually fairly hard to spot unless you're looking for it. Since they have this advantage it seems only fair that a Gauss Rifle should be more of a liability in a brawl than any other weapon, besides LRMs ofcourse.

[The GaussFather]

It was already a liability for brawling... now it is useless unless used in pairs... you have to wait 7 seconds (5.5 + 1.5) seconds to fire! That's almost twice as long as an AC20. And yes its totally useless for brawling anything faster than you....

[Coralld]

The GaussFather, on 30 December 2015 - 01:19 PM, said:

It was already a liability for brawling... now it is useless unless used in pairs... you have to wait 7 seconds (5.5 + 1.5) seconds to fire! That's almost twice as long as an AC20. And yes its totally useless for brawling anything faster than you....

6.25 seconds actually, not 7

The weapon did need a cool down nerf but I do agree that 1.5sec is a tad to much, 1sec would have been better.

Edited by Coralld, 30 December 2015 - 02:18 PM.

[Satan n stuff]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 30 December 2015 - 01:12 PM, said:

Likely because it was laser vomits best friend.

The real problem with Gauss though, is that with every other ballistic weapon, as the pinpoint damage gets higher, the velocity of the projectile gets slower. With Gauss the velocity jumps back up to what is pretty much the fastest striking non-laser weapon.

It strikes hard, without warning, from long distance. Sure it has to charge before firing, but the big issue is that it is very difficult to react to. With any other weapon, keeping a decent eye peeled gives you a decent chance to foil your opponents attacks. Big ACs will require the enemy to get closer, you'll see them before they hit you if you're paying attention, then smaller ACs and Lasers give you time to react once you come under fire.

With Gauss Rifles, your cockpit thrashes and suddenly you've taken 15/30 damage, from a source you still might not have identified as the projectile itself is actually fairly hard to spot unless you're looking for it. Since they have this advantage it seems only fair that a Gauss Rifle should be more of a liability in a brawl than any other weapon, besides LRMs ofcourse.

Make the gauss slugs glow bright blue with a visible trail like they did in other battletech games. That solves at least one of those problems instantly.

[Revis Volek]

Was fine (a bit OP), is still fine.


Its still the best ballistic in the game even with the nerf, what does that tell you?

Edited by DarthRevis, 30 December 2015 - 02:22 PM.

[Night Thastus]

Yeah, it was needed. Gauss spam wasn't often, but when it happened it wasn't counterable. It ran incredibly cool, had incredible range and pin-point damage.

Face against a team of laserboats? Wait for them to overheat. Twist to reduce damage.

Face against a team of SRM boats? Get some distance!

Face against a team of missleboats? Get some cover!

Face against a team of gaussboats? Have fun dying. GG.

Edited by Night Thastus, 30 December 2015 - 02:41 PM.

[Khobai]

Gauss nerf was needed.

But nerfing gauss did hurt assault mechs since it was their main way of doing more damage without generating more heat.

So now assault mechs need something to help make up for it.

[Mcgral18]

Mcgral18, on 30 December 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Right direction, but 4.75+0.75=5.5s would have been a better starting point than the current 6.25s Gauss recycle.

[Tarogato]

Option 5: No, gauss needed a nerf.



... in other words, yes gauss needed a nerf. And no, I do not support the nerf, it was too strong.

[Lightfoot]

The Gauss Rifle needs a recycle time that is longer than an AC20, it does not need the charge-up.

The charge-up was only successful until most players learned to use it. The longer recycle time affects all equally. But the Gauss Rifle does not need both. 6 second recharge makes the Gauss long range balanced. It can't compete vs much higher dps short range ballistics or lasers. That's all that is needed

[CDLord HHGD]

One gauss was never an issue, pre-nerf/post-nerf/pre-charge/post-charge.

[Captain Stiffy]

You can't make a weapon that has the fastest projectile, the longest range, the best damage and the best accuracy. Something had to be done.

[Wesxander]

Anyone saying that gauss needed nerf does not play gauss. The so called nerf was already on top of an insane gauss charge ability that takes anywhere from 120 to 180 hours to master for the average person. Those of us that did master the gauss charge hold and fire skill now have their timing screwed to hell by naysayers. As far as skipping out the way of an incoming gauss shots mechs aren't Neo's from the Matrix. PPC and ER PPC's as well for that matter should not be slower than autocannon fire. Additionally since the new cool down increase patch gauss is not registering hits on some players. 1/2 to 1/3 gauss shots dead on target with the target not moving is not registering. Gauss seems to still hit moving targets ok but stationary targets are now likely to have the same bug as ppcs where the shot does not register as you are shooting without a red targeting lock. Finally rail guns in real life do not have some half baked idea that the gauss coils act like an open capacitor discharge state. The fact is opposite it takes some time to charge the coils but once charged it remains in ready to fire state quite easily. Those of you stating gauss needed nerfing need to state how much time you took training the skill ability up in real life and how often you actually used the weapon in matches per game basis.

Use gauss quite often in matches in CW such as Borel Vault, Springs mostly odds of using it there are about 50/50 usually. In quick play matches I take gauss maybe 1 in 10 matches as it's to impaired to be of value even before this new nerf.

Edited by Wesxander, 30 December 2015 - 05:21 PM.

[Wesxander]

As far as being able to trace gauss fire. It's hyper sonic slug that travels faster than sound which requires people with extended range V keys to find the sniper and counter fire. MY opinion we have people that want turn a battle tech game into Hawken suddenly. No LRM's and No gauss = poor version of Hawken. It's the battle tech universe quit trying turn it Ballistic mechs and Laser Vomit only.


Played Battle tech since it was Battle Droids in mid to early 80's. Played in more table top tournaments than I can count. At one point ran more than 18 to 24 battle tech tournaments as well. Got more battle tech minatures in storage with rare and unique die cast FASA minatures than any other player I know.

Edited by Wesxander, 30 December 2015 - 05:30 PM.

[Moldur]

Captain Stiffy, on 30 December 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

You can't make a weapon that has the fastest projectile, the longest range, the best damage and the best accuracy. Something had to be done.

It's heavy, has charge up, is a sponge for critical damage, and blows up for damage. I mean, it's not like this is the first caveat to the gauss rifle's performance.

I think I should have adjusted the poll choices. It seems like a lot of people agree that gauss should have been toned down from what it was, but I feel like it's practically dead right now.

Night Thastus, on 30 December 2015 - 02:41 PM, said:

Yeah, it was needed. Gauss spam wasn't often, but when it happened it wasn't counterable. It ran incredibly cool, had incredible range and pin-point damage.

Face against a team of laserboats? Wait for them to overheat. Twist to reduce damage.

Face against a team of SRM boats? Get some distance!

Face against a team of missleboats? Get some cover!

Face against a team of gaussboats? Have fun dying. GG.

You're correct, but at the same time, I could say that about other weapons that are still in the game.
I once had a CW against waves and waves of Dragons in Boreal Vault. We just got pelted with AC-5s, couldn't focus limbs, couldn't even aim, and got wiped. Not a very common tactic, but it was really powerful.

PPCs, even with heat still follows the same concept. Maybe gauss was the worst offender, but I think there is a general trend in MWO of things being OP (mainly ppfld weapons) if people are willing to make the effort and organize their drop.

[El Bandito]

Yes it needed the nerf. Aside from the fact that the weapon itself was top tier, Clan Gauss was too effective for the tonnage, and IS gauss was too strong on certain quirked mechs.

[Captain Stiffy]

The gauss works perfectly for what it is intended to be which is a powerful but low-dps long-range sniper weapon.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Wesxander, on 30 December 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

Anyone saying that gauss needed nerf does not play gauss. The so called nerf was already on top of an insane gauss charge ability that takes anywhere from 120 to 180 hours to master for the average person. Those of us that did master the gauss charge hold and fire skill now have their timing screwed to hell by naysayers. As far as skipping out the way of an incoming gauss shots mechs aren't Neo's from the Matrix. PPC and ER PPC's as well for that matter should not be slower than autocannon fire. Additionally since the new cool down increase patch gauss is not registering hits on some players. 1/2 to 1/3 gauss shots dead on target with the target not moving is not registering. Gauss seems to still hit moving targets ok but stationary targets are now likely to have the same bug as ppcs where the shot does not register as you are shooting without a red targeting lock. Finally rail guns in real life do not have some half baked idea that the gauss coils act like an open capacitor discharge state. The fact is opposite it takes some time to charge the coils but once charged it remains in ready to fire state quite easily. Those of you stating gauss needed nerfing need to state how much time you took training the skill ability up in real life and how often you actually used the weapon in matches per game basis.

Use gauss quite often in matches in CW such as Borel Vault, Springs mostly odds of using it there are about 50/50 usually. In quick play matches I take gauss maybe 1 in 10 matches as it's to impaired to be of value even before this new nerf.

I can't agree with hardly anything you've just said. But here's the two biggest things. A. Gauss rifles were not too impaired to be of use, they were a competitive staple. B. It does not take 120 hours to master the gauss rifle's charge up.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Wesxander, on 30 December 2015 - 05:26 PM, said:

As far as being able to trace gauss fire. It's hyper sonic slug that travels faster than sound which requires people with extended range V keys to find the sniper and counter fire. MY opinion we have people that want turn a battle tech game into Hawken suddenly. No LRM's and No gauss = poor version of Hawken. It's the battle tech universe quit trying turn it Ballistic mechs and Laser Vomit only.


Played Battle tech since it was Battle Droids in mid to early 80's. Played in more table top tournaments than I can count. At one point ran more than 18 to 24 battle tech tournaments as well. Got more battle tech minatures in storage with rare and unique die cast FASA minatures than any other player I know.

Good for you?

No, we don't want to turn MWO into Hawken suddenly. And I don't know why you think this game would be even remotely close to Hawken even if we did do away with Gauss and LRMs. They play entirely differently.

Anyways though, more to the point, we don't want to do away with these weapons, we simply want to balance these weapons in such a way that we can find a compromise. That is a compromise between keeping to the original concept of the weapon and preventing the weapons from sucking the fun out of the game.