137 replies to this topic

[ExplicitContent]

I recently signed a contract with the IS side to see what the balance feels like from an IS perspective and to get some more mech bays from faction loyalty. In the past I have only dropped with Clan Ghost Bear and played with clan mechs. I did 2 drops last night, 1 was an IS PUG group vs an IS 12 man premade. This was a rollstomp, as can be expected.

The second, was an IS PUG vs Clan PUG. We had a 4 man in the group that did a good job with coordination, so there was an element of teamwork present that I do believe played some role in the victory. However, there were also some very very new players, and some that did not even really factor into the match.

I am amazed at how easily it feels like the clan mechs are dying. The IS added structure and quirks make the mechs more viable and with the 265 tonnage limit, I think it is too far leaning toward the IS side as far as balance is concerned. I dropped with a Top Dog, Firebrand, TDR-5SS and a Grasshopper 5h. I am decent, but not great. Just focused fire on EBJ nose cones and watched them pop.

Anyway, that's my unsolicited 2 cents. Playing IS is easier than playing clans in CW. Any talk of Clan being OP is a joke if you ask me.

[Aetes Kotare]

I play FW both Clan (this account) and IS (Aetes Nakatomi).

I find that the balance is not too bad at present. IS do have a few super specialised mechs at the moment (mega range for ERLL using a BLR for example) and quite a few have crazy structure quirks (BJ for example) but I do not struggle to focus fire anything down with my Clan mechs as long as my team are not uber derps.

As for being able to kill EBJs easily? That has always been the case, Jags are glass cannons not tanks. Also I see you have a 4 man in the team on your side with someone in chat saying 'Good leadership for us XD'. I would be willing to bet this was a case of Teamwork OP rather than IS Over quirks or Clan nerfs.

Edited by Aetes Kotare, 27 December 2015 - 07:14 AM.

[El Bandito]

Judging from the badges, you dropped with Norm Peterson, and Mask from the Rough Riders. Of course they can lead an IS pug team to victory against Clan pugs. The Rough Riders are actually very good group--I should know, since I am one of them.

Most Steam newbies can't even torso twist yet. And mechs such as the Timberwolf and Stormcrow requires twisting to stay tanky since they have good hitboxes to compensate for lack of structure quirks.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 December 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Aetes Kotare]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Judging from the badges, you dropped with Norm Peterson, and Mask from the Rough Riders. Of course they can lead an IS pug team to victory against Clan pugs. The Rough Riders are actually very good group--I should know, since I am one of them.

My thoughts exactly!!

[Aiden Skye]

In CW all you see is only the most heavily quirked chassis on IS side. Blackjacks, thunderbolts, stalkers, battlemastes, etc etc. so many chassis that do well. Too many mechs have been given 20% and over range quirks this last balance pass. Safe to say that clan does not have the range game in CW. Trading at range on boreal vault is a fools errand.

Underperforming clan mechs need to be given something to improve their effectiveness. Given there are less clan mechs in the game, a crap chassis that serves little purpose in the game only means so much less options and that is my main problem.

[ExplicitContent]

El Bandito, on 27 December 2015 - 07:14 AM, said:

Judging from the badges, you dropped with Norm Peterson, and Mask from the Rough Riders. Of course they can lead an IS pug team to victory against Clan pugs. The Rough Riders are actually very good group--I should know, since I am one of them.

Most Steam newbies can't even torso twist yet. And mechs such as the Timberwolf and Stormcrow requires twisting to stay tanky since they have good hitboxes to compensate for lack of structure quirks.

Yes. They do a good job.

[GI Journalist]

W A R K H A N, on 27 December 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

In CW all you see is only the most heavily quirked chassis on IS side. Blackjacks, thunderbolts, stalkers, battlemastes, etc etc. so many chassis that do well. Too many mechs have been given 20% and over range quirks this last balance pass. Safe to say that clan does not have the range game in CW. Trading at range on boreal vault is a fools errand.

I concur with the problem, which is a select number of over quirked Inner Sphere chassis. I disagree with the proposed solution of adding quirks to Clan Mechs, unless you can identify some serious under-performing designs. Instead, I think the right approach is to continue to scale back the quirks on the Inner Sphere designs. I'm just as tired of trading with BattleMasters and Thunderbolts at long range. Decreasing the range quirks will make more chassis viable on both the Clan and Inner Sphere side.

[ExplicitContent]

GI Journalist, on 27 December 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I concur with the problem, which is a select number of over quirked Inner Sphere chassis. I disagree with the proposed solution of adding quirks to Clan Mechs, unless you can identify some serious under-performing designs. Instead, I think the right approach is to continue to scale back the quirks on the Inner Sphere designs. I'm just as tired of trading with BattleMasters and Thunderbolts at long range. Decreasing the range quirks will make more chassis viable on both the Clan and Inner Sphere side.

Yeah that's what I was thinking too. With the tonnage the way it is (I realize that this is not permanent) being able to play 4 well quirked heavies makes it seem too easy

[Celtic Warrior IS]

I recently started using my IS account and put my Clan account to rest just because of the ongoing nerfs the clans have been getting and all the buffs the IS get. Playing the IS is like hitting the big red easy button. I bought the Thunderbolt Mastery Pack and within about 1 to 1 1/2 weeks I've almost completely mastered them along with making over 40 mil cbills I've also almost completely mastered my Griffin Mastery Pack as well.

The Clan account was fun while it was good but it's just to annoying playing it now.

[Viges]

I just found out that MS switched to IS.

I loled

[Y E O N N E]

GI Journalist, on 27 December 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

I concur with the problem, which is a select number of over quirked Inner Sphere chassis. I disagree with the proposed solution of adding quirks to Clan Mechs, unless you can identify some serious under-performing designs. Instead, I think the right approach is to continue to scale back the quirks on the Inner Sphere designs. I'm just as tired of trading with BattleMasters and Thunderbolts at long range. Decreasing the range quirks will make more chassis viable on both the Clan and Inner Sphere side.

See, PGI keeps doing generalist quirks when not everything needs the same level of buff. An ERLL does not need a 25% range increase to compete with a C-ERLL, but an ML does need actually even more than that to be competitive with the C-ERML.

When quirks first dropped, PGI was aware of this. But everybody complained that splitting quirks into some level of generalist and then some specific types shoehorned you into playing only certain builds on certain chassis. This is why PGI really ought to look at changing the weapons themselves, because completely stock IS weapons are pretty much garbage across the board.

[Malagant]

The IS weight limit could be 400 and everyone running hyper quirked 100 tonners, and the IS apologists would still complain that they are not OP enough...

[Dimento Graven]

W A R K H A N, on 27 December 2015 - 07:37 AM, said:

In CW all you see is only the most heavily quirked chassis on IS side. Blackjacks, thunderbolts, stalkers, battlemastes, etc etc. so many chassis that do well. Too many mechs have been given 20% and over range quirks this last balance pass. Safe to say that clan does not have the range game in CW. Trading at range on boreal vault is a fools errand.

Underperforming clan mechs need to be given something to improve their effectiveness. Given there are less clan mechs in the game, a crap chassis that serves little purpose in the game only means so much less options and that is my main problem.

Well, let's see... Clans get free CASE for EVERY part of the mech. That's pretty cool... If Clans want 'quirks', invest some of the weight you guys get free in a TC.

You complain about quirks when all a Clanner has to do to get some fairly decent additions to their ranges and projectile speed is buy a TC.

Clan Targeting Computers:

Increase AC and PPC projectile speed (except LBX)
Increase Laser ranges
Increase AC, Laser, and PPC crit chances (except LBX)

The larger the TC you purchase, the bigger the increases you get, and considering the already higher damage, longer range, lighter weight, smaller hard point BASE "quirks" of Clan weaponry, it's a considerable benefit.

So MAYBE you have to invest in one or two less lasers for your laser vomit, considering the bonuses you get, seems like it'd be more than worth it, and you get MORE quirks.

[Bushmaster0]

Dimento Graven, on 27 December 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

Well, let's see... Clans get free CASE for EVERY part of the mech. That's pretty cool... If Clans want 'quirks', invest some of the weight you guys get free in a TC.

You complain about quirks when all a Clanner has to do to get some fairly decent additions to their ranges and projectile speed is buy a TC.

Clan Targeting Computers:

Increase AC and PPC projectile speed (except LBX)
Increase Laser ranges
Increase AC, Laser, and PPC crit chances (except LBX)

The larger the TC you purchase, the bigger the increases you get, and considering the already higher damage, longer range, lighter weight, smaller hard point BASE "quirks" of Clan weaponry, it's a considerable benefit.

So MAYBE you have to invest in one or two less lasers for your laser vomit, considering the bonuses you get, seems like it'd be more than worth it, and you get MORE quirks.

Targeting Computer don't increase armor or internal structure

[Coolant]

Glad OP brought this up simply because there is too much talk in Steam about P2W Clan mechs. However, I've played both IS and Clan and I think they are balanced. About as well as can be. I didn't notice any difference in taking out IS mechs while playing Clan and also got steamrolled by Clan a couple of times. I also destroyed Clan mechs and rolled Clans while playing IS.

Teamwork determines victory on evenly skilled teams. IS vs. Clan is the best I've ever seen it in MWO.

[C E Dwyer]

HAHAHAHA your funny

Give up your day job and do stand up O.P your a natural

Seriously read the comment at the bottom about good leadership, that was why the IS won, because there were good leaders, and the other players had the common sense to listen to them..

I've also played both sides and clan are very much better, for a start in the noob section clan LRMs are actually useful, because IS XL engines go boom, and IS ECM mechs ain't that good compared to CW ones, on top of that if a clan player so choses they can have a good ECM mech filling all their four spots, people only don't because their none ECM mechs are that much better

Ebon jag with its high shoulder mounts,
Timberwolf with its high mounts, the best Heavy in the game
Stormcrow, pretty much any build you want you can make, the best Medium in the game
Artic Cheater the best light in the game also with ECM.

When clans lose its not because clan mechs are worse its because they fought a well organised IS team or they were crap..

Reset now, but well the universe map before turkey shoot 2 was a very damning and unquestionable example of how better clan mechs are, unless of course the exploits that were aimed at certain Clan units are in fact, true, but that of course can't be the case, because P.G.I didn't ban their leaders.

Edited by Cathy, 27 December 2015 - 10:45 AM.

[Revis Volek]

Bushmaster0, on 27 December 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Targeting Computer don't increase armor or internal structure

But they do increase a lot of other stuff like Projectile Speed, Ranges, and Crit Chances.

If you dont have a TC1 on its more then likely not the best build. Certain mechs like my WHK-Prime with 4 ERPPC's uses a TC4 one because of tonnage and two because of the following buffs it receives...

21% total Zoom Boost
52.5% Cut in Targeting Info
10.5% PPC Projectile Speed increase (they go fast)
AND a 6.1% increase to my chances for a single Crit


Granted it 4 tons but the IS doesnt have anything like that they can just give to a mech at all, they need the quirks most the time.

Add in Cooldown modules and the Target Gathering modules and this thing get mech info in nano seconds and can hit it with ease and nuke that crit or close to component no problem.

[Sorbic]

"I did one measurable drop and am now going to declare IS easy mode" heh

[Dimento Graven]

Bushmaster0, on 27 December 2015 - 10:19 AM, said:

Targeting Computer don't increase armor or internal structure

A Clan XL doesn't blow up when you lose an ST.

Please show me the IS 'armor/internal structure' quirk that allows an IS 'mech to equip an XL, lose a side torso, and still be playing their 'mech.

Regardless of the range, Clan 'mechs STILL do MORE damage with their lighter and smaller weapons, and of course when it isn't one of the FEW IS 'mechs with a 25% range quirks the Clanner is fighting, the Clan energy weapon range quirk is better, and that's probably better than more than 90% of IS 'mechs.

See, if PGI had come out labeled the Clan weapon advantages as weapon specific quirks to begin with, the whole syntax of this argument would change.

The fact is, Clans have quirks, but they're just "built in" to the Clan tech. Besides that, checking Smuphy's, I find that a lot of Clan 'mechs have OTHER quirks, listed as such, including STRUCTURE QUIRKS.

So... Non-issue...

[ExplicitContent]

Cathy, on 27 December 2015 - 10:27 AM, said:

HAHAHAHA your funny

Give up your day job and do stand up O.P your a natural

Glad you enjoyed it? Just my point of view. I play both sides in Solo queue regularly and that is just an altogether different beast. I was shocked at how easy it was to do well with a drop deck that I spent less than 5 minutes sorting out. Pug vs Pug I think IS has a distinct advantage. I do think that a lot of new players gravitate towards IS for their first CW and that tends to skew the picture of balance.

Do you play clan and IS? Would love to hear your input if you do.