84 replies to this topic

[Chimera_]

Bushmaster0, on 20 March 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

but people have to understand...

since the introduction of CW...pgi has aid that it is hardcore mode..no matchmaker, large group play...
theres even a warning players have to click before their first CW drop... but pugs ignore that and then complain about how ufair CW is... it boggles the mind...

As I already expressed I think the biggest issue is that PGI has done nothing to actually keep this a more 'hardcore' mode as they intended. Any brand new player can make an account and enter a CW match immediately, with no idea what they're doing. That's not their fault, it's the fault of PGI for not having a barrier to entry.

PGI is sending mixed messages by wanting a more 'hardcore' mode but simultaneously letting anyone in to help pad out the queues. If they want CW to be hardcore without brand new players derping around, give it a barrier such as quick play matches played or the like.

Edited by Chimera11, 20 March 2016 - 12:21 PM.

[Alardus]

Faction play was supposed to be a nice MW3 or MW4 style UI design with mechbay etc, a big nice looking map of what's going on in systems like eve online, with limits of dropping what mech where and with what weapon based on what is currently in that system, with travel time to other systems and costs for travel time, like a big expansive near-MMO. You'd get in different size jumpships or warships, drop onto a planet, have to fight around there unless you pay to travel somewhere else, etc, and then the distance to conquer planets would be meaningful.

Instead you have conquering of one system locked by adjacent systems rather than locked by cost/reward. The map is cheesy and bad. The controls aren't great either. Every fight on the maps is a computer RAM bloating FPS dropfest with no indidivuality and predictable design that isn't really fun. Its mostly 'natural ground' tunnels.

[Aresye]

You want to know what truly is the REAL problem in FW? Check out this video, and skip to 16:30: https://www.twitch.t...eill/v/54528873

Observe how the score is neck and neck (on a counter-attack). Now watch as one of the pugs on KCom's team completely disregards the score, disregards his team waiting outside the gate, and just completely decides to waltz right the **** into the gates, and into the enemy team, trying to get to Omega. Worse, this shittastic maneuver actually FORCED KCom to make a move before they were fully ready.

What did this particularly "special" player achieve at the end of the match? A measly 54 freaking damage!

If you think this type of player is uncommon in FW, you are absolutely WRONG! They are everywhere, they are in every faction, and they don't care about the team, the objective, or even their own performance. They often have a piss poor attitude as well, and are usually the ones to ***** about premades, Clan vs. IS balance, missiles, the map, etc.

There is obviously no reason for these players to be in FW, except for one reason:

- On a win, no matter how good/bad you did, you get a nice 300,000 CB bonus.

They don't care about playing as part of a team. They're simply trying to make some money, and when they see the game is not looking like it will go in their favor, they have absolutely no hesitation in sabotaging their team to try and get out of match at their quickest convenience.

We should never, ever, cater to these kinds of players, which is exactly what OP suggests we should do. I've played enough solo CW to know that even with a team full of players that have no idea what they're doing, just simply getting them to work together as a team is enough to put up a modest opposition to a very good premade on the other side.

I've also seen teams of solo players completely roll other teams of solo players, because one side is willing to work as a team, and the other side is filled with a bunch of selfish, "Ima do what I want!" type players.

I hate them with a passion, and I hope more of the big name units return to FW. I hope these selfish, anti-teamwork players continue to get rolled OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, until the ONLY solo players remaining in FW are the ones who actually want to play together as a team.

[Alardus]

Aresye, on 20 March 2016 - 12:54 PM, said:

You want to know what truly is the REAL problem in FW? Check out this video, and skip to 16:30: https://www.twitch.t...eill/v/54528873

Observe how the score is neck and neck (on a counter-attack). Now watch as one of the pugs on KCom's team completely disregards the score, disregards his team waiting outside the gate, and just completely decides to waltz right the **** into the gates, and into the enemy team, trying to get to Omega. Worse, this shittastic maneuver actually FORCED KCom to make a move before they were fully ready.

What did this particularly "special" player achieve at the end of the match? A measly 54 freaking damage!

If you think this type of player is uncommon in FW, you are absolutely WRONG! They are everywhere, they are in every faction, and they don't care about the team, the objective, or even their own performance. They often have a piss poor attitude as well, and are usually the ones to ***** about premades, Clan vs. IS balance, missiles, the map, etc.

There is obviously no reason for these players to be in FW, except for one reason:

- On a win, no matter how good/bad you did, you get a nice 300,000 CB bonus.

They don't care about playing as part of a team. They're simply trying to make some money, and when they see the game is not looking like it will go in their favor, they have absolutely no hesitation in sabotaging their team to try and get out of match at their quickest convenience.

We should never, ever, cater to these kinds of players, which is exactly what OP suggests we should do. I've played enough solo CW to know that even with a team full of players that have no idea what they're doing, just simply getting them to work together as a team is enough to put up a modest opposition to a very good premade on the other side.

I've also seen teams of solo players completely roll other teams of solo players, because one side is willing to work as a team, and the other side is filled with a bunch of selfish, "Ima do what I want!" type players.

I hate them with a passion, and I hope more of the big name units return to FW. I hope these selfish, anti-teamwork players continue to get rolled OVER, and OVER, and OVER, and OVER again, until the ONLY solo players remaining in FW are the ones who actually want to play together as a team.

if you were even half as good as you thought you were, you'd be able to say "screw that guy let him die alone" and not get pulled into a bad engagement when you're "not ready".

The fault is yours.

Edited by Alardus, 20 March 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Alardus, on 20 March 2016 - 12:27 PM, said:

Faction play was supposed to be a nice MW3 or MW4 style UI design with mechbay etc, a big nice looking map of what's going on in systems like eve online, with limits of dropping what mech where and with what weapon based on what is currently in that system, with travel time to other systems and costs for travel time, like a big expansive near-MMO. You'd get in different size jumpships or warships, drop onto a planet, have to fight around there unless you pay to travel somewhere else, etc, and then the distance to conquer planets would be meaningful.

Instead you have conquering of one system locked by adjacent systems rather than locked by cost/reward. The map is cheesy and bad. The controls aren't great either. Every fight on the maps is a computer RAM bloating FPS dropfest with no indidivuality and predictable design that isn't really fun. Its mostly 'natural ground' tunnels.

The first part of this sounds great.

The second part is irrelevant since the current faction maps are defense maps and there are supposed to be choke points. It is extremely likely the rest of the maps will be added some time.

The complaints the current defense maps lean towards defense are rather silly and the complainers should feel silly.

Edited by Johnny Z, 20 March 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[Alardus]

Johnny Z, on 20 March 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

The first part of this sounds great.

The second part is irrelevant since the current faction maps are defense maps and there are supposed to be choke points. It is extremely likely the rest of the maps will be added some time.

The complaints the current defense maps lean towards defense are rather silly and the complainers should feel silly.

There's so many other mech games out there to get ideas from. Starseige, older MW, heavy gear, armored core, chromehounds.

[Jenovah]

Fen Tetsudo, on 01 January 2016 - 01:05 PM, said:

Not true!, the elite teams protested, as they ignored each other and farmed more pugs.

We don't like doing this!, as they spawncamped newbies in trial mechs.

We really would prefer a challenge!, said Steiner-MS as they avoided FRR-228.

Why are we getting so many ghost drops? they asked in 3 months...

Heh.

This guy always seems to know more about the inner operations of units than the units themselves... Seriously, take off your tin foil hate and realize some units have been clan for a hot minute, and *gasp* amazing that people would switch in prep for the Archer release or maybe just for some new scenery.

Dudeman3k, on 20 March 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Jesus christ people...

if the words "join a unit" comes out of your typing fingers, you are wrong.

if you have to Download a 3rd party VOIP that may or may not contain malware, you are wrong.

If you really want CW to be exclusive that badly, you are wrong.

I've been playing this game just as long, (if not longer) Than some of you ******* try hard white knights. STOP.

realize PGI has a problem with CW and that It can use some love. Stop defending "well it kind of works" and strive for "we want this to work"

FFS..... I want CW to be fun too. I dont play it, becuase, well.... it's unfriendly to players like me or "Us", who really want to stay away from you group up mouth breathers.

Listen to the OP, and realize there is an issue.

I'm less inclined to listen to someone who's played less than a week. While I don't disagree that things could be better, I don't understand why people fight the teamwork aspect so much. I'm not saying join a unit per se, just that I think many people use "join a unit" as lay speak for "use teamwork, organize, communicate."

And lets be honest, the ingame VOIP leaves much to be desired. As far as malware is concerned, from the TS or Vent websites, there is nearly 0 threat. And most people who worry about Vent/TS downloads should probably think about the choice to even download the game as TS/Vent have been around longer than MWO. Not including CBT, but based on official public release, Vent and TS have over a decade on MWO (11 years, as both came out around 2002.)

So that punches holes in the comms argument.

[Spr1ggan]

Yeah faction play is boring and really bad. However it could be worse. It could be domination or conquest. Or ebola and aids and i like to call them.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 20 March 2016 - 01:58 PM.

[Aresye]

Alardus, on 20 March 2016 - 01:00 PM, said:

if you were even half as good as you thought you were, you'd be able to say "screw that guy let him die alone" and not get pulled into a bad engagement when you're "not ready".

The fault is yours.

Even for the best teams, just a single player not pulling their weight has an enormous impact, not just on match outcome, but also how much effort is needed.

The average damage it takes to down an enemy mech doesn't magically change, and is actually fairly consistent from game to game. Someone HAS to do that damage, so when Joe Raven dude only does 50 damage and 0 kills, that's a deficit of ~950 damage and 4 kills that somebody else has to do.

Pretty much KCom was playing an 11vs12 game the entire time, although more realistically they were actually 10vs12, as another one of their players was like 350 damage and 0 kills. Now you're talking a 1600 damage & 8 kill deficit that KCom must make up for. That's 2/3 of an entire extra wave!

[VorpalAnvil]

Dudeman3k, on 20 March 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

Jesus christ people...

if the words "join a unit" comes out of your typing fingers, you are wrong.

if you have to Download a 3rd party VOIP that may or may not contain malware, you are wrong.

You forgot to go on endlessly about how consoles are superior to pc's in every way...

[LegendaryArticuno]

Faction solo queue should improve things a lot.

It takes so freaking long to start up a match.

[Ghogiel]

CW steam player influx has been subsiding. It is returning to the ghost town days of yore.

[SQW]

CW map design is atrocious. I'd play Terra with a pub team in QP any day of the week over these choke point and static defense/assault crap. CW might have better unit co-ordination but at least in QP, you can actually flank and maneuver rather than this choke point turkey shoot BS.

[Alardus]

Aresye, on 20 March 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

Even for the best teams, just a single player not pulling their weight has an enormous impact, not just on match outcome, but also how much effort is needed.

The average damage it takes to down an enemy mech doesn't magically change, and is actually fairly consistent from game to game. Someone HAS to do that damage, so when Joe Raven dude only does 50 damage and 0 kills, that's a deficit of ~950 damage and 4 kills that somebody else has to do.

Pretty much KCom was playing an 11vs12 game the entire time, although more realistically they were actually 10vs12, as another one of their players was like 350 damage and 0 kills. Now you're talking a 1600 damage & 8 kill deficit that KCom must make up for. That's 2/3 of an entire extra wave!

He specifically said that one person went YOLO and so the rest of the team chased the team rabbit into their own demise.

Turning a hard battle into an impossible one and then blaming the YOLO tard isn't a good way to get your point across.

[Ace Selin]

LegendaryArticuno, on 20 March 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Faction solo queue should improve things a lot. It takes so freaking long to start up a match.

LOL, it will take longer if they split the queues . Also i have seen people who have no unit tag, get 4000 damage and others get 50 damage from 4 mechs, whilst i have seen people with unit tag get 300 damage from 4 mechs, so how does this queue split make the field more level? It doesnt, it gives the perception of a level playing field only.

[Chuck Jager]

Ace Selin, on 20 March 2016 - 09:19 PM, said:

LOL, it will take longer if they split the queues . Also i have seen people who have no unit tag, get 4000 damage and others get 50 damage from 4 mechs, whilst i have seen people with unit tag get 300 damage from 4 mechs, so how does this queue split make the field more level? It doesnt, it gives the perception of a level playing field only.

Yes that is because the solo player sat behind their team with lrms and pissed damage away while the team was loosing. I see 1-3 of these folks whenever I'm on a losing team in solo CW. They may never go past the gate.

[Karl Marlow]

LegendaryArticuno, on 20 March 2016 - 04:49 PM, said:

Faction solo queue should improve things a lot.

It takes so freaking long to start up a match.

how does restricting the pool of possible players make faster matches?

[iLLcapitan]

These threads never get old.

[Deathlike]

Alardus, on 20 March 2016 - 08:59 PM, said:

He specifically said that one person went YOLO and so the rest of the team chased the team rabbit into their own demise.

Turning a hard battle into an impossible one and then blaming the YOLO tard isn't a good way to get your point across.

Technically, it is the only way sometimes.

People don't realize the impact of things "done on their own", specifically "when not telling anyone about it". It happens a lot in the public group queue.

The best way to put it is this..

Going YOLO into the mess w/o thinking is like trying to do a 2v1 battle. I'd like to think that a good teammate would like to be in the party of 2. When you're "doing your own thing", you're effectively trying to fight the 2 opponents solo. Only with major discrepancies is when the solo player is winning the match vs the 2 opponents (like health, skill, loadout, etc.). For many of those "doing their own thing" (usually the newer/unskilled player), they generally are losing this matchup way more often than not.


There are instances where on the team, there will be a guy that will be a distraction... whether it be some Atlas or Light mech... where he expects and/or plans on dying... just in the name of helping the team win. IF AND ONLY IF the coordination is there, it can properly be turned into a 12-1 difference (the 1 being the sacrifice) in favor of your team. It simply cannot reliably work when people "do their own thing".


Teamwork is OP, and if you refuse to do teamwork, you are saying "I want me and my team to lose" as far as the everyone is concerned. When team is lopsided in skill and teamwork, you can surely get away contributing very little to the team... but when team skill is equal, you will be a liability. There's no place for someone that is a liability to the team. It's fine that this person is lesser skilled and all, but refusing to work with the rest of the team is far more detrimental than an unskilled player.

Edited by Deathlike, 21 March 2016 - 08:52 AM.

[VonRunnegen]

meh, have dropped in a mix of mastered and trial mechs, solo, come out near the top of my winning team. OK, I paid attention to what was going on and didn't just run in to die, and yes the mastered mechs did better than the trials. Still, no need to 'join a unit' or to only drop fully moduled mechs - yes, it'll help your odds but it's not a bar to playing, winning and having fun. Encouraging more people to have a go would help more, and having fewer planets so there could be an actual matchmaker could separate the meta tryhards from the just started players, but the game mode should be accessible to all. It's a lot more interesting than the QM games!