949 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Bobzilla, on 05 January 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

If a game mode is set up so that a completely outclassed team is worth more when they are meticulously farmed and straight up humiliated, it's the game. I've personally have never been in a game where a large group mouthed off, but i've been in lots where a solo did vs a group (most of the time the group doesn't respond).

I think it mostly comes from the fact that a newer player to CW will see getting clubbed and stomped as a personal thing and are insulted from it. So it is in fact the game.

So players with no idea rant and its a design fail? No its just the "I wanna be a big boy NAO" issue. But people don't accept to go through what it takes to get big. Not a games fault. It's the people who wnat everything on a silver plate beign the issue. Yes CW has some issues, but this mental issue some players bring in will never be fixed by ANY game mechanic. Except giving them low hp stupid AI opponents.

Desdakan, on 05 January 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

Not so. Obviously dropships only appear after someone has died and they take a while to come. So it just gives people time to get back up to 12 players and form up for a fair fight. After that, the spawn points can be attacked but the attacker would have to retreat after some kills before the dropships return.

So it is possible to regain the lead and it would not break the game.

No imagine, wave one happens attackers die, all 12 defenders die by 8.

Now the 8 dropping stay in their untouchable locations, and wiht the next wave the defenders can take out one mech and die too. Then tthe last 4 go back to spawn, 12 vs 13 and a 12 man team hiding for the win in an unclaimable spawn. GG, game broken, because the team that previously was better now will surely be able ot totally gatehr up again. instead of claimign a map location and fighting vs a constant stream of opponents. Also the current system does allow not to drop. So in ts someoen just needs to stay "undropped" until someone says: they comign to spawn" and suddnely your uberstronk dropships come and shoot evertyhing to crap. Such a thing would be very exploitable.

Edited by Lily from animove, 05 January 2016 - 08:30 AM.

[Sorbic]

Odins Steed, on 01 January 2016 - 06:12 PM, said:

[Redacted] Gen Rushers.

I pug CW pretty much exclusively and I much rather getting farmed to the last mech. I hate seeing ten minutes of queuing up wasted so I can get paid nothing and do nothing. Even the very worst of stomps will still let me shoot something, but gen rush matches are just a waste. What you're suggesting would kill the mode way faster than any 12 man stomp.

I would rather be farmed but not spawn camped. Let folks come out to fight and at least have a half a chance to fight back.

[KahnWongFuChung]

Larry said :So players with no idea rant and its a design fail? No its just the "I wanna be a big boy NAO" issue. But people don't accept to go through what it takes to get big. Not a games fault.
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CW was a fail to start with because PGI did not learn a dang thing from the 4-12 man debacle in solo MM games and continued to place pugs in CW battles to be prayed upon by those PGI grandly pampers the 12 man comp teams. As long as Russ and PGI keeps up this dumb idea that MWO is to become a E-tarrd Sport game noting will be done right with matchmaking in CW.

So keep your myth that CW is OK and 12 man comp team seal clubbing is ok that will drive away the larger part of the MWO player base and payers with 12 comp team mentality and MW will dry up from lack of revenue and players.

[Hotthedd]

KahnWongFuChung, on 05 January 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

Larry said :So players with no idea rant and its a design fail? No its just the "I wanna be a big boy NAO" issue. But people don't accept to go through what it takes to get big. Not a games fault.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
CW was a fail to start with because PGI did not learn a dang thing from the 4-12 man debacle in solo MM games and continued to place pugs in CW battles to be prayed upon by those PGI grandly pampers the 12 man comp teams. As long as Russ and PGI keeps up this dumb idea that MWO is to become a E-tarrd Sport game noting will be done right with matchmaking in CW.

So keep your myth that CW is OK and 12 man comp team seal clubbing is ok that will drive away the larger part of the MWO player base and payers with 12 comp team mentality and MW will dry up from lack of revenue and players.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?

Players will find a way to exploit any advantage the game gives them. This is a given.

It is the developers' job to minimize exploitable efforts, and remove them if possible.

Asking players to compete against each other, but not take advantage of broken game mechanics is insane. However, the fix should not be to coddle weaker players, it needs to be to fix the game so that weaker players have a chance to get better.

[JaxRiot]

Almond Brown, on 05 January 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

I would play CW as much as you can now folks. What will kill CW is PvE, if it ever happens. Those, who get verbally abused on here in and in CW matches, while trying out their Trial Mechs, will happily move to PvE. The same will happen from Pug Ville and then the "light at the end of the tunnel" will be there for all to see.

So keep posting threads telling all those new players to go/stay away from your precious CW and when they do get somewhere to go, to get away from the Leet E-Peen Salties, they will flock to "their" own, long awaited, "game mode" of choice and the Leet E-Peen Salties will not be able run after them asking/begging them to come back because there will be no way to un-burn that bridge, ever.

That day will be a very f'ing sad day for MechWarriors everywhere. Enjoy the CW Elitist E-Peen attitudes we read on here so much while you can folks, and remember what really killed CW.

PvE will definitely change the landscape of the game.

But nobody knows when that will come or if it ever will come. Ive been here with MWO for about a year, and Russ has been talking about wanting to add PVE since long before I came around.

Personally I wouldnt get my hopes up for PvE. At least not any time soon

Although CW Phase 3 is coming and is supposed to have a lot of features that would make Pug/solo life in CW easier.

But CW Phase 3 was supposed to be happen before the Steam launch if I remember correctly, but here we are. Steam launch has came and went and still no sign of CW Phase 3.

Makes me wonder how long these new Steam player will stick around and wait. How long will they be able to endure being Pug farmed before they decide they dont like it and move on.

Edited by JaxRiot, 05 January 2016 - 09:18 AM.

[Sandpit]

Almond Brown, on 05 January 2016 - 07:24 AM, said:

Last we read, PGI are not the ones "belittling the new players" who are attempting to try out CW... Priceless indeed.

Agreed
It takes so little effort to use the faction chat and help new players and solo players find planets, get into more coordinated groups, etc.

JaxRiot, on 05 January 2016 - 09:16 AM, said:

PvE will definitely change the landscape of the game.

But nobody knows when that will come or if it ever will come. Ive been here with MWO for about a year, and Russ has been talking about wanting to add PVE since long before I came around.

Personally I wouldnt get my hopes up for PvE.

Although CW Phase 3 is coming and is supposed to have a lot of features that would make Pug/solo life in CW easier.

But CW Phase 3 was supposed to be happen before the Steam launch if I remember correctly, but here we are. Steam launch has came and went and still no sign of CW Phase 3.

Makes me wonder how long these new Steam player will stick around and wait. How long will they be able to endure being Pug farmed before they decide they dont like it and move on.

I don't ever recall PGI saying anything about Phase 3 before Steam. Citation?

[JaxRiot]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Agreed
It takes so little effort to use the faction chat and help new players and solo players find planets, get into more coordinated groups, etc.


I don't ever recall PGI saying anything about Phase 3 before Steam. Citation?

Ya thats the thing.. I seem to remember someone saying Phase 3 was to be finished before Steam Launch, but I cant find it anywhere.

I do remember Russ saying that they were Finalizing Phase 3 back in February or March (9 or 10 months ago?) though.

I remember that it all made sense though. They had been finishing up Phase 3 since February, and wanted it release before the Steam Launch in November or December.

But I cant find where anyone specifically said it though.

Possibly I am getting old and my memory has finally failed me.... a long with my looks..my weight...hair line...self esteem..

I need a beer

[Mystere]

KahnWongFuChung, on 05 January 2016 - 07:47 AM, said:

There is only one thing left to say about CW and that is if PGI does not segregate CW like they did the solo MM PGI and MWO will lose 95% of the new steam players and the revenue for the game will dry up.

But MWO needs a new makeover for solo and CW gameplay with new game modes and mission play after 3 years it is time for PGI to wake up and smell the coffee or watch what they have made go the way of the DODO Bird,

Let me put this as gently as possible, and note that I myself drop solo and only solo ...

I'd rather MWO die than have Community Warfare -- the mode that is supposed to have been "The Game" right from the very start -- be diluted even more. And as far as I am concerned, segregation is in that direction.

PGI already knows my suggestions. They can take it or die.

[Kin3ticX]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 09:17 AM, said:

Agreed
It takes so little effort to use the faction chat and help new players and solo players find planets, get into more coordinated groups, etc.


I don't ever recall PGI saying anything about Phase 3 before Steam. Citation?

back around phase 2 launch they at one point claimed phase 3 would be summer-early fall '15. Its mentioned across several town halls and at one point in a later town hall Russ says that Steam and other factors(including adding too many features) are reason for the delay.

[Mystere]

cdlord, on 05 January 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Community Warfare (NOT Clan Wars and NOT Faction Wars) is inherently flawed.

In military doctrine (correct me if I am wrong) is that it takes a 2:1 numerical advantage to assault a defended position. Add to that the fact that we cannot simply shoot the wall. No! We have to shoot BEHIND the wall at a generator exposing ourselves to enemy fire.

There's room to simplify the attacking equation here. Mount the generator IN the wall so it's exposed on both sides like a control panel (which in lore makes sense because there are ways for mechs to manipulate door controls).

You already hinted on a possible change that can be made.

But it will not happen, at least not until PGI and a very loud segment of the player base get rid of their "Everything must be 1:1 or MWO will fail!" mentality.

MWO having a Clan company(!) be made up of 3 lances(!!) of 4 Mechs each is just one example of this mentality.

[CDLord HHGD]

Mystere, on 05 January 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

You already hinted on a possible change that can be made.

But it will not happen, at least not until PGI and a very loud segment of the player base get rid of their "Everything must be 1:1 or MWO will fail!" mentality.

MWO having a Clan company(!) be made up of 3 lances(!!) of 4 Mechs each is just one example of this mentality.

Well, "shut up and put up" just isn't my style.

[Khobai]

Quote

But it will not happen, at least not until PGI and a very loud segment of the player base get rid of their "Everything must be 1:1 or MWO will fail!" mentality.

The majority of players wanted 12v10. Its PGI that pushed 12v12 because they claimed they couldnt get their stupid matchmaker to work with 12v10

And I even made the brilliant suggestion of having 12v10 in CW but still having 12v12 mixed teams in quickplay by simply putting the same number of clan mechs on each team so nothing was unbalanced. I basically solved PGIs whole problem... but they ignored that suggestion.

If I recall some dumb guys counter-argument was "but players will favor the more powerful clan mechs in quickplay". Which was hilarious because people already did that at the time: favor clan mechs over IS ones. It wasnt until recently that IS mechs gained some traction due to the massive clan nerfs and absurd IS structure buffs.

Quote

In military doctrine (correct me if I am wrong) is that it takes a 2:1 numerical advantage to assault a defended position.

or a really big bomb.

Edited by Khobai, 05 January 2016 - 10:05 AM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

The majority of players wanted 12v10 if I recall. Its PGI that pushed 12v12 because they claimed they couldnt get their stupid matchmaker to work with 12v10

And I even made the brilliant suggestion of having 12v10 in CW but still having 12v12 mixed teams in quickplay by simply putting the same number of clan mechs on each team so nothing was unbalanced. I basically solved PGIs whole problem... but they ignored that suggestion.

If I recall some dumb guys counter-argument was "but players will favor the more powerful clan mechs in quickplay". Which was hilarious because people already do that now: favor clan mechs over IS ones.

PGI "pushing" does not mean a bunch of people were not whispering in their ears.

And with regard to the solo queue, the matchmaker can just force fights to be IS vs. IS, Clan vs. Clan, or IS vs. Clan depending on player availability. It's not even close to rocket science.

[Khobai]

well whoever whispered they wanted 12v12 IS vs Clan into PGIs ear was an idiot.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

well whoever whispered they wanted 12v12 IS vs Clan into PGIs ear was an idiot.

we tested 10v12
it didn't work
It was tried out
It was abandoned because it was horribly lopsided.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 10:11 AM, said:

well whoever whispered they wanted 12v12 IS vs Clan into PGIs ear was an idiot.

It actually no longer matters who was whispering then.

What matters now is that there are quite a number here who insist on 12 vs. 12. Pray these people do not have PGI's ear on the matter.

[Khobai]

Quote

we tested 10v12
it didn't work
It was tried out
It was abandoned because it was horribly lopsided.

you sound hilarious

the game is horribly lopsided NOW

[CDLord HHGD]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

or a really big bomb.

Well, in relative terms we do not have those in MWO do we? We may be in robots, but we're essentially using Civic/Napoleonic War doctrines. Line up and shoot, don't get scared away by artillery, hold the line....

[Mystere]

Sandpit, on 05 January 2016 - 10:19 AM, said:

we tested 10v12
it didn't work
It was tried out
It was abandoned because it was horribly lopsided.

When?
Where?
How?
What was the balance set up?
What was the game mode set up?

If all they did was 10v12 and nothing else, and during/before the initial Clan release, then the said "testing" was "loaded" either by design or incompetence.

[Zibmo]

Mystere, on 05 January 2016 - 09:48 AM, said:

You already hinted on a possible change that can be made.

But it will not happen, at least not until PGI and a very loud segment of the player base get rid of their "Everything must be 1:1 or MWO will fail!" mentality.

MWO having a Clan company(!) be made up of 3 lances(!!) of 4 Mechs each is just one example of this mentality.

Historically it has been 3:1. The failure of trench warfare in WW1 is emblematic of the results of ignoring this siege warfare doctrine. Asymmetry in technologies allow that to relax to the extent that a battle is technologically asymmetric enough to award an advantage to an attacker.

Edited by Zibmo, 05 January 2016 - 10:26 AM.