180 replies to this topic

[YakkSlapper]

yah yah yah, w/e to erll, I can still plant an AC 20 round on you from OVER 1K, lot less damage but so what? you hit me? i can definitely nail you in return if not nail u 1st if your moving slow, sometimes its NOT about the damage, but suppression fire is the goal, make you think twice about trying to sit still and snipe me, this is originally a table top game, and true balance will NEVER be achieved, in TT, dice randomness was the great equiliser, 1(x2) ALWAYS failed, crit miss, 6 (x2) always succeeded, (crit hit), befor any modifers (your movement/target movement speed/ range modifers, unlike here, point n click to hit/hold on target,

this game will never be 'balanced' just a constant shift in 'power', unlike table top tho, i find making 'head shots' to be more attainable here then TT ever was,
(then again, in TT, I did once walk face 1st into a hunchbacks ac 20,,,(LITERALLY face 1st) yah his 1st shot took me out of the tourney,

so lets all just learn, (what everyone else always says to do) ,,,TO ADAPT! cause seriously, with damage drop off, unless your taking gauss or mass ac rounds, a few pings of distance weakened laz's isnt gonna cripple you unless you just stand there and take it, (then again there's my timbers 5x L laz, one alpha, good bye leg on most anything in one shot and kill on most any light IF can hit it full bore) and thats large not large pulse nor ERLL

ONE other thing, ARMOUR!! I noticed many many many players do NOT make full/max armor builds, they hsave off some here and there to fit more weaps and ammo, so ofc the effect is maginifed by a distinct lacking of armors, I find myself doing the same at times, and less armor+xl = you die way faster then you think you would

Edited by YakkSlapper, 04 January 2016 - 11:24 AM.

[Alienized]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 10:52 AM, said:

so just curious, you think a weapon that does less damage, has less range, and produces more heat should be restricted the same as an AC10?

yes as its massively easier to hit and aim with it. therefore you wont miss (or at least shouldnt...) and waste heat on missed shots.
oh not to mention: ac10 are double as heavy. have fun putting 4 llas into anything that is not overquirked or a assault.

Edited by Alienized, 04 January 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Sandpit]

Alienized, on 04 January 2016 - 11:20 AM, said:

yes as its massively easier to hit and aim with it. therefore you wont miss (or at least shouldnt...) and waste heat on missed shots.
oh not to mention: ac10 are double as heavy. have fun putting 4 llas into anything that is not overquirked or a assault.

it's easier to hit with, it's also easier to miss your full damage duration with as well.
Only glance that moving target with a laser? Well welcome to 1 damage for 8 heat

You're leaving out some very important balancing factors like what I just mentioned above.

[Alienized]

Sandpit, on 04 January 2016 - 11:35 AM, said:

it's easier to hit with, it's also easier to miss your full damage duration with as well.
Only glance that moving target with a laser? Well welcome to 1 damage for 8 heat

You're leaving out some very important balancing factors like what I just mentioned above.

lel no. i dont. thats exactly WHY you dont see many ac10'S around and so many large lasers. lel

[Gas Guzzler]

I'd rather increase PPC ghost heat threshold to 3. 30 damage, 30 heat. Seems fair and will increase diversity without making large lasers completely garbage.

[Sandpit]

Alienized, on 04 January 2016 - 11:44 AM, said:

lel no. i dont. thats exactly WHY you dont see many ac10'S around and so many large lasers. lel

uhm ok...
no idea what you're saying here...

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'd rather increase PPC ghost heat threshold to 3. 30 damage, 30 heat. Seems fair and will increase diversity without making large lasers completely garbage.

large lasers would not be garbage, you just couldnt spam 4 large lasers all time for pinpoint reasons. you need to do them in groups of 2, firing them one after another instead which is acceptable in many cases. setting all the ghost heat caps up will do the exact opposite.

[DrxAbstract]

VinJade, on 04 January 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

Oh doc how you don't get it.

Lore is the reason behind it that is true, and Clanners earned it by not blasting themselves back into the stone age. but since this isn't battletech as you like to boast and or make fun of us that happen to like history but there is no way mw:o could ever have anything to do with lore which makes this game nothing more than a generic shoot em up robot game, which is still fun so don't get me wrong.

I just remember that MW:O has nothing to do with battletech which makes it easy to accept most things.
but then there are those who don't care about lore because they are just PC fans and most likely never picked up a book or maybe a Trio in their life so its easy for them to dismiss everything when it comes to lore.

First and foremost don't tell me what I like to do -especially when it's an outright lie.

Secondly: Sarcasm, dude. Sarcasm.

DrPetPyroShark, on 04 January 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

Refer to my prior reply about why the sanctity of Lore can't be maintaine...

Refer to the great Book of Smart@ss, flip to the 'Sarcasm' section.

[The Image]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Then why are you even discussing balance? Just drive your crap mechs and have fun if that is all you want out of the game.

Mister Blastman, on 04 January 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Once the IS 'mech is in range it can fire faster, poke faster and spread damage better not to mention handle heat better due to more heat efficient weapons with shorter burn times and better autocannons which lets them focus that damage on a single component better.

Let's not drag this argument out.

Unless the Clan 'mechs can play the range game and keep the IS 'mechs at range, the IS has the advantage.

AAAAAND you guys are NOW back to wanting to have your cake and eat it too again...

[Ultimax]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

I'd rather increase PPC ghost heat threshold to 3. 30 damage, 30 heat. Seems fair and will increase diversity without making large lasers completely garbage.

Me too.

We shall see it happen soon as we ride through the frozen underworld on flying pigs with rainbow farts.

Amen.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 04 January 2016 - 01:30 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 04 January 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

large lasers would not be garbage, you just couldnt spam 4 large lasers all time for pinpoint reasons. you need to do them in groups of 2, firing them one after another instead which is acceptable in many cases. setting all the ghost heat caps up will do the exact opposite.

4 LLs is 36 damage, along with ghost heat. Why is that a problem?

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 04 January 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

4 LLs is 36 damage, along with ghost heat. Why is that a problem?

why? look at the quirks.
look at all the used mechs.
look at the weapons that are barely used.


this aint balance what we have. it all about large/er large lasers and pulse lasers.
thats why. weapon balance totally got out of hand.
laserboats run too cool making most other weapons pointless to use.

[Widowmaker1981]

Prosperity Park, on 04 January 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

. ... And more damaging.

And not really pulse lasers, due to their duration. The C-LPL is much closer to the IS-ERLL in function than it is to the IS-LPL

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 05 January 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

why? look at the quirks.
look at all the used mechs.
look at the weapons that are barely used.


this aint balance what we have. it all about large/er large lasers and pulse lasers.
thats why. weapon balance totally got out of hand.
laserboats run too cool making most other weapons pointless to use.

Weapons barely used:

(C)Machine Gun
(C)Flamer
ER PPC

Weapon used a limited amount:

PPC
cERPPC
AC2
AC10


Maybe those weapons need to be looked at?

Frankly, you typically only use quad LL if you are limited to 4 energy hard points, and even then if there are range quirks you put ER LL there, but that is only.dominant on Boreal Vault really. You see them in public queue but not in great numbers. I don't know. I have never considered 4 LL to be a problem, it's 20 tons of lasers for 36 damage, and you have to cycle fire to avoid ghost heat. Good in certain situations but there are better builds out there. Especially for hot maps with close quarters.

[Alienized]

Gas Guzzler, on 05 January 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

Weapons barely used:

(C)Machine Gun
(C)Flamer
ER PPC

Weapon used a limited amount:

PPC
cERPPC
AC2
AC10


Maybe those weapons need to be looked at?

Frankly, you typically only use quad LL if you are limited to 4 energy hard points, and even then if there are range quirks you put ER LL there, but that is only.dominant on Boreal Vault really. You see them in public queue but not in great numbers. I don't know. I have never considered 4 LL to be a problem, it's 20 tons of lasers for 36 damage, and you have to cycle fire to avoid ghost heat. Good in certain situations but there are better builds out there. Especially for hot maps with close quarters.

you notice on what mechs those weapons are used? mainly on those with extreme high velocity quirks/extreme negative heat gen quirks (for PPC),
if you look at the meta now, there is almost no ppc.

same goes for the med ballistics apart from the UAC5's which are also well usable without jamchance reduction.
ac20 are sometimes there just because they have a massive punch and at the range u use them you cant miss everything bigger than a light.

gausses been nerfed (and rightfully so).

now if you look at the CW part of what most units play: large pulse laser thunderbolts, large pulse laser battlemasters, er large laser quickdraws/battlemasters/thunderbolts. its all about them lasers. really everything. on every map (even on vitric forge)

now we can try to get EVERY OTHER weapon ingame up to their level OR we simply do something about the boating. it would NOT make these weapons pointless useless or anything else, you just require more heat management as it is for the clans atm on CW.

combined with all the superquirks on lasers AND structures for IS it would be the easiest solution without ***** up everything else on CW again.

[Khobai]

Quote

this aint balance what we have. it all about large/er large lasers and pulse lasers.
thats why. weapon balance totally got out of hand.
laserboats run too cool making most other weapons pointless to use.

I dont think laser boats run too cool. But lasers definitely have way too much range.

Lasers should be predominantly short to medium range weapons. While PPCs/ERPPCs should be medium to long range energy weapons. Then every energy weapon has a niche in the game.

Lasers need a massive range smackdown across the board. Its totally dumb that I can fire 4 CLPL at something 700m away for 50+ damage. And IS has their own equivalent of that as well because of the absurd range quirks.

And PPCs need to be restored to their rightful place as energy sniping weapons.

Quote

combined with all the superquirks on lasers AND structures for IS it would be the easiest solution without ***** up everything else on CW again.

yeah no. the superquirks need to go. weapons need to be balanced without quirks.

If CW gets !@#$ed up again who cares. I care more about game balance than CW being messed up for a season.

Edited by Khobai, 05 January 2016 - 10:06 AM.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

I dont think laser boats run too cool. But lasers definitely have way too much range.

Lasers should be predominantly short to medium range weapons. While PPCs/ERPPCs should be medium to long range energy weapons. Then every energy weapon has a niche in the game.

Lasers need a massive range smackdown across the board. Its totally dumb that I can fire 4 CLPL at something 700m away for 50+ damage. And IS has their own equivalent of that as well because of the absurd range quirks.

And PPCs need to be restored to their rightful place as energy sniping weapons.



yeah no. the superquirks need to go. weapons need to be balanced without quirks.

If CW gets !@#$ed up again who cares. I care more about game balance than CW being messed up for a season.

Quirks aren't the problem. PGI using quirks as their main balancing tool is.

Quirks were never intended to be used for balance, they were implemented to give different variants some nice little quirks to make them more attractive to use. PGI needs to start ripping off a few of their band-aids and get it over with.

It will hurt for a bit, but then it will get better.

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 05 January 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

I dont think laser boats run too cool. But lasers definitely have way too much range.

Lasers should be predominantly short to medium range weapons. While PPCs/ERPPCs should be medium to long range energy weapons. Then every energy weapon has a niche in the game.

Lasers need a massive range smackdown across the board. Its totally dumb that I can fire 4 CLPL at something 700m away for 50+ damage. And IS has their own equivalent of that as well because of the absurd range quirks.

And PPCs need to be restored to their rightful place as energy sniping weapons.



yeah no. the superquirks need to go. weapons need to be balanced without quirks.

We had this once before and lasers were relegated to being derp weapons reserved for noobs.

[Khobai]

Quote

We had this once before and lasers were relegated to being derp weapons reserved for noobs.

Nah small/medium lasers will always have a place in the game as backup weapons. Because they weigh almost nothing.

And thats exactly what the 0.5-2 ton lasers should be for the most part... backup weapons. they should not really be used as main weapons. Part of the whole problem is that the CERML is way too good and its being used as a main weapon, its practically as good as an ISLL, for considerably less tonnage.

Edited by Khobai, 05 January 2016 - 10:27 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Alienized, on 05 January 2016 - 08:58 AM, said:

you notice on what mechs those weapons are used? mainly on those with extreme high velocity quirks/extreme negative heat gen quirks (for PPC),
if you look at the meta now, there is almost no ppc.

same goes for the med ballistics apart from the UAC5's which are also well usable without jamchance reduction.
ac20 are sometimes there just because they have a massive punch and at the range u use them you cant miss everything bigger than a light.

gausses been nerfed (and rightfully so).

now if you look at the CW part of what most units play: large pulse laser thunderbolts, large pulse laser battlemasters, er large laser quickdraws/battlemasters/thunderbolts. its all about them lasers. really everything. on every map (even on vitric forge)

now we can try to get EVERY OTHER weapon ingame up to their level OR we simply do something about the boating. it would NOT make these weapons pointless useless or anything else, you just require more heat management as it is for the clans atm on CW.

combined with all the superquirks on lasers AND structures for IS it would be the easiest solution without ***** up everything else on CW again.

I don't understand how cycling 2 and 2 is all of a sudden going to make huge difference from cycling 3 and 1. I don't care about those mechs, I care about the ones that use 3 LLs (that you are saying are NOT seen in CW that often) that will get nerfed as a result of this change, including the Black Knight, Grasshopper, Zeus, Highlander, Crab, King Crab, and others that aren't as you say "what most units play".

And yes, so maybe they should buff PPCs to that level so they are useful again.

Honestly, there was a time when LL ghost heat came in after 2 of them. They were almost non-existent.

Compare 3 ER LL to 2 cLPL. It is actually pretty balanced, if you ask me. Quirks give it extra range and less heat, but it still has longer duration (1.25 vs 1.12, a 10% duration quirk would bring them to parity) and more heat (25.5 vs 20, would need 20% heat gen quirk for parity). And then of course the 3 ERLLs weigh 15 tons vs 12 tons for the 2 cLPLs. I really don't see how 3 of them without ghost heat is so unbalanced.