193 replies to this topic

[Bastard Ken]

The magistrate can't really take the blame for that, the sentencing laws were passed by the Coalition government of NSW. They are also widely regarded as terrible laws, passed as a knee-jerk reaction to organized crime, and like all such laws will be completely useless in prosecuting the people they are targeted at. Similarly, action taken against goons as a whole without any consideration of due process or evidence based decision making will only serve to damage the game by driving away otherwise committed and creative members of the fan base.

[Bastard Ken]

Wait, I just realized that you think NSW's anti-association laws could be used to criminally prosecute all Goons for not taking an internet robot game seriously enough. Ha ha, no. They are specifically written to prevent persons who have been convicted of indictable criminal offenses from living or working together. Ridiculously sweeping, but they don't cross over into "economic anti-competitiveness", whatever you think that means. You may be thinking of the Corporations Act, which is 1) Federal legislation, and 2) also irrelevant.

Edited by Bastard Ken, 16 July 2012 - 06:43 PM.

[Harabec Weathers]

Besides, PGI is a Canadian company, so what the hell does Australia have to do with anything?

[Nuclear Xmas]

Third Flower, on 16 July 2012 - 04:48 PM, said:

Dear Nuclear Xmas,
Grow up.

You just suggested that people "speak out" against a group you don't like. That is all we are, a group of people you don't like. That is not something you speak out against, that is something you grow up and learn to live with.

You speak out against slavery. You speak out against discrimination. You speak out against violence. You speak out against injustice.

To use that sort of rhetoric, about a group of people who contribute in a way you don't appreciate, is bordering on offensive.

So, I return to my initial advice: Grow up.

Wow, that was quite dramatic.

I really don't know too much about the canon of this franchise or what exactly it is your group has done or is doing to the forums. To be honest everyone representing or speaking on behalf of "goons" are pretty well spoken and I haven't had any reason to hate any one individual or the group and whatever it's ideals or ambitions might be. This is all stuff I'm just now learning about today.

But so long as you're doing something that's bothering people or annoying them and you're taking a sense of pride in it don't act violated when someone calls you out for it.

I don't see how you can tell me I need to sit back and deal with you when you just responded so aggressively to what I had said. If you truly believed in what you were saying you'd just sit back and simply take what I have to say for what it is. Not get all defensive and bring up irrelevant topics like slavery and injustice to make your point seem noble.

Edited by Nuclear Xmas, 16 July 2012 - 10:30 PM.

[Scabrous]

marcus elgin, on 12 July 2012 - 12:28 PM, said:

I like the idea that I've been playing Battletech since the mid 90's solely so I could prepare to troll these forums and in a couple of months I'll get bored and leave the series. Apparently I'm a master of the long con. Also Squawk.

[fil5000]

Nuclear Xmas, on 16 July 2012 - 10:11 PM, said:

Wow, that was quite dramatic.

I really don't know too much about the canon of this franchise or what exactly it is your group has done or is doing to the forums. To be honest everyone representing or speaking on behalf of "goons" are pretty well spoken and I haven't had any reason to hate any one individual or the group and whatever it's ideals or ambitions might be. This is all stuff I'm just now learning about today.

But so long as you're doing something that's bothering people or annoying them and you're taking a sense of pride in it don't act violated when someone calls you out for it.

I don't see how you can tell me I need to sit back and deal with you when you just responded so aggressively to what I had said. If you truly believed in what you were saying you'd just sit back and simply take what I have to say for what it is. Not get all defensive and bring up irrelevant topics like slavery and injustice to make your point seem noble.

Let's just review your original post:

Nuclear Xmas said:

I mean, everyone keeps saying "just ignore them and they'll leave". But in reality if you leave then they win. That's when they finally take over, and this community becomes their's. At least when you speak out against them you're making your presence known. That not everyone has given up.

Now, you're saying the response to that was "overdramatic". Your post there is acting as though the Goon presence in this game is something to be fought against, that goons are trying to in some way overwhelm and absorb the MWO community into itself. And further, you say people have to "speak out" against said presence and not give up. Who's the one being overdramatic again?

Really? You know we're just a bunch of jerks from an internet forum, right? We find dumb stuff funny, we've adopted a crappy bird thing from a terrible book as our public face and we have a mumble server. That warrants "speaking out", does it?

I don't think there's a single person amongst us that would object to being "called" on our needling of people that get wound up about stupid stuff that isn't important. That said, that isn't what you did - you made a broad sweeping statement that only by people "speaking out" could the Terrible Goon Menace be prevented from "winning" in some way. Which was hyperbolic and intended to engender an emotional response that frankly Goons aren't important enough to merit (which is what Third Flower said).

Basically, calm down. We're just these guys, you know?

Sam Slade, on 16 July 2012 - 06:19 PM, said:

The only things I would say annoy people are the denegration aspects of a minority of the posts by Goon members(why do you care if people don't like you or think you're silly? Don't pretend you don't because you always bite when people bait you) or the assumptions of total superiority when no one knows how the meta-game will be implemented.

As a side note; if you're a Goon member, or a member of any other 'faction' that requires payment to join for that matter, be careful about your conduct with regard to behavior that could be construded as economically anti-compedative. Sounds absurd but there are laws on the Australian books that can see you charged for being a member of anything arbitratily dubbed as a 'criminal organization'. This may sound foolish and infalmatory but it really isn't; the anti-association laws are aggressive and have an amazingly broad scope. They have not been tested with online only interaction but anyone with half a brain can see how bat **** crazy Australian magistrates can be sometimes: an intellectually disabled man was recently gaoled for walking to the shops with two childhood friends who had criminal records, due to the aforementioned anti-association laws.

Firstly, I'll bite every time that someone comes out with something as absurd as Nuclear Xmas there, happy to admit it. It's a weakness of mine.

Secondly, how on EARTH is anything we're doing "economically anti-compedative [sp]"? It's a free to play giant robot game, we're not monopolising an industry, or fixing LIBOR rates, or anything like that. I'm also fairly sure that Australian magistrates won't be in a position to do anything about a bunch of people who are in the main American.

[Toothman]

Vandal, on 12 July 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

We'll only go away if the game is bad or if you and the pubs are all so terrible that we get bored crushing stuff forever.

We thrive on conflict and adversity but we hate boredom and bad games.

They thrive on drama and exploiting for wins. Totally not scarey in an even fight.

[CW Roy]

I came. I read posts. I left.

Still dunno what the drama is about.

[TheKumquat]

Toothman, on 17 July 2012 - 03:32 AM, said:

They thrive on drama and exploiting for wins. Totally not scarey in an even fight.

You're in for a bit of a shock.

[Nekki Basara]

We have our catchphrases, our detractors have theirs. Let them wave their e-banner until they see it's not as lazorproof as they hoped.

[Scabrous]

TheKumquat, on 17 July 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

You're in for a bit of a shock.

I honestly can't emptyquote this hard enough. Look at this, I'm emptyquoting it so hard I'm typing about emptyquoting it. Emptyquote.

[Vandal]

TheKumquat, on 17 July 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

You're in for a bit of a shock.

Shhhh, let them live the lie for a little longer at least.

[Nikol Grall]

Shouldn't the bird pilots be in CJF, and do they taste like chicken?

[Silent]

TheKumquat, on 17 July 2012 - 04:24 AM, said:

You're in for a bit of a shock.

You forget that even when you beat someone fairly you're still using exploits. Somehow!

[George Ledoux]

Silent, on 17 July 2012 - 05:48 AM, said:

You forget that even when you beat someone fairly you're still using exploits. Somehow!

Bunch of back-stabbing griefers! The whole lot of you! No e-honor! No fairness! No god-awful spelling errors!

You'd do well in the Solaris arenas

[Amberlance]

Give full play to our style of posting - courage in sentences, no fear of sacrifice, no fear of fatigue, and continuous posting (that is, posting successive posts in a short time without rest).

[OmarComin]

Harabec Weathers, on 16 July 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

Besides, PGI is a Canadian company, so what the hell does Australia have to do with anything?

What does this have to do with Shadowbane?

[Nuclear Xmas]

fil5000, on 17 July 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

Let's just review your original post:



Now, you're saying the response to that was "overdramatic". Your post there is acting as though the Goon presence in this game is something to be fought against, that goons are trying to in some way overwhelm and absorb the MWO community into itself. And further, you say people have to "speak out" against said presence and not give up. Who's the one being overdramatic again?

Really? You know we're just a bunch of jerks from an internet forum, right? We find dumb stuff funny, we've adopted a crappy bird thing from a terrible book as our public face and we have a mumble server. That warrants "speaking out", does it?

I don't think there's a single person amongst us that would object to being "called" on our needling of people that get wound up about stupid stuff that isn't important. That said, that isn't what you did - you made a broad sweeping statement that only by people "speaking out" could the Terrible Goon Menace be prevented from "winning" in some way. Which was hyperbolic and intended to engender an emotional response that frankly Goons aren't important enough to merit (which is what Third Flower said).

Basically, calm down. We're just these guys, you know?

Of course you're just guys. Their really is nothing awful about what any of you are doing. And I wouldn't go so far as to say you all are "terrible people".

I think maybe the problem is that you figured I was trying to "rally up" everyone against you. That really wasn't my intention. Rather that those who're unhappy with how you all are acting shouldn't be told they have to sit quiet. That they should just deal with it.

I'm not saying they should write their congressman. I'm not saying they should go make signs and protest. Or collaborate in any way to create some mass movement.

All I was trying to say is that if someones unhappy with something they should have no reason not to say something about it. As humans we're largely dependent on communication and feedback. To see people telling others they should just hold back what they have to say about something kind of irks me. This is a problem I see that extends far beyond anything I've seen on the MWO forums or what goes on with whatever the hell Goonsquad really is. Sorry if you took my statement for something it wasnt meant to be or that I have some deep personal feelings against your group. I really don't. I don't know enough about your group to really know whether it's something worth disliking or not. My statement was just intended for those who do. Not to encourage people to.

Edited by Nuclear Xmas, 17 July 2012 - 09:50 AM.

[fil5000]

Nuclear Xmas, on 17 July 2012 - 09:49 AM, said:

Of course you're just guys. Their really is nothing awful about what any of you are doing. And I wouldn't go so far as to say you all are "terrible people".

I think maybe the problem is that you figured I was trying to "rally up" everyone against you. That really wasn't my intention. Rather that those who're unhappy with how you all are acting shouldn't be told they have to sit quiet. That they should just deal with it.

I'm not saying they should write their congressman. I'm not saying they should go make signs and protest. Or collaborate in any way to create some mass movement.

All I was trying to say is that if someones unhappy with something they should have no reason not to say something about it. As humans we're largely dependent on communication and feedback. To see people telling others they should just hold back what they have to say about something kind of irks me. This is a problem I see that extends far beyond anything I've seen on the MWO forums or what goes on with whatever the hell Goonsquad really is. Sorry if you took my statement for something it wasnt meant to be or that I have some deep personal feelings against your group. I really don't. I don't know enough about your group to really know whether it's something worth disliking or not. My statement was just intended for those who do. Not to encourage people to.

*** **** it, stop being reasonable. I've got this massive horse I need to get on.

[Amberlance]

It is man's posting that determines his thinking. Once the correct ideas characteristic of the Word of Lowtax are posted by the masses, these ideas turn into a material force which changes society and changes the world.