134 replies to this topic

[Johny Rocket]

Lupis Volk, on 04 January 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

yay bad map stays bad.

Now if only it had it's "death mountain" removed and spawns fixed...oh right...

You can't blame this on pgi, they looked at it and decided to chuck the whole thing and when they announced that the response was a petition thread that stayed at the top of general every since.

[Khobai]

Quote

You can't blame this on pgi

But its fun to blame it on PGI.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Khobai, on 04 January 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

yeah I dunno is it really that hard to just open map editor, click the lower terrain button on the hill a few times, and press save?

apparently more than minimally viable?

[Lupis Volk]

Tractor Joe, on 04 January 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

You can't blame this on pgi, they looked at it and decided to chuck the whole thing and when they announced that the response was a petition thread that stayed at the top of general every since.

Oh i'm not blaming them.

Alpine just needed it's mountain lowered or moved so one team wasn't closer. Also the spawns needs fixing. Assaults are kinda left out in the cold.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 04 January 2016 - 08:13 PM.

[Johny Rocket]

Lupis Volk, on 04 January 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh i'm not blaming them.

ok just took it wrong.
I do agree about mount derp and the spawns in multiple area codes.

[Mystere]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 January 2016 - 08:06 PM, said:

Yeah the solution to them taking a year plus to create a new map is to throw in crap old maps

As opposed to what, spending allegedly $250,000 per map and then just throwing it away?

And by the way, a map being "crap" is just an opinion and not fact. Not everyone hates Alpine.

[El Bandito]

I remember back in 8v8, the radio tower was where people flocked to.

I miss 8v8. And I miss non-****** spawn points.

Edited by El Bandito, 04 January 2016 - 08:18 PM.

[Mystere]

Lupis Volk, on 04 January 2016 - 08:12 PM, said:

Oh i'm not blaming them.

Alpine just needed it's mountain lowered or moved so one team wasn't closer. Also the spawns needs fixing. Assaults are kinda left out in the cold.

Nope. The mindless zombies that instinctively rush to Mt. Derp expecting a pile of human brains should just get their own brains back.

[GrimRiver]

NextGame, on 04 January 2016 - 01:46 PM, said:

Thats fine, they should delete Terra Therma instead.

I second this.

+1

[Chrome Magnus]

DjPush, on 04 January 2016 - 01:52 PM, said:

Why would you divide resources to create a new map for public queue, to replace/update an old map that people complained about constantly, only to pretend like you were misunderstood and leave the map you intended to replace/update in rotation? I confused myself just typing this.

A minority of people complained about constantly. And they stated it will be receiving some tweaks to help those who can't be bothered to do anything other than rush the mountain.

[LordKnightFandragon]

They should just rework Alpine AND remake that new map.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

keep it, balance pass it, updated it like the others, move on...I don't like alpine, but I don't want it's full removal either.

[AssaultPig]

boooo

booooooooooooooooooo

better spawn locations will help I guess, but alpine will always suck as long as the big hill is the central feature.

[Bishop Steiner]

AssaultPig, on 04 January 2016 - 09:46 PM, said:

boooo

booooooooooooooooooo

better spawn locations will help I guess, but alpine will always suck as long as mindless lemming zombie legions keep treating the big hill as the central feature.

FTFY

[AssaultPig]

it's a **** map

if your team are coordinated enough to all hide in a different place it's still a **** map

the team that gets to the top of the i9 hill first is at a decisive advantage and as long as that's the case alpine will be terrible (on assault and skirmish anyway, it's okay on conq)

[Bishop Steiner]

AssaultPig, on 04 January 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

it's a **** map

if your team are coordinated enough to all hide in a different place it's still a **** map

the team that gets to the top of the i9 hill first is at a decisive advantage and as long as that's the case alpine will be terrible (on assault and skirmish anyway, it's okay on conq)

except it's only a decisive advantage if you feel the urge to dig out an entrenched enemy.

In two game modes, you have alternate tactical choices to force them off the hill, and even in Skirmish, the lowlands to the South are actually better combat fields, out of reach from the Mountain.

If you are too impatient to use it and make them come to you, that ain't the map's fault.

Chrome Magnus, on 04 January 2016 - 08:52 PM, said:

A minority of people complained about constantly. And they stated it will be receiving some tweaks to help those who can't be bothered to do anything other than rush the mountain.

Well the primary problem with the map, sadly PGI can't fix without a lot of dynamite and handholding. Because there is no cure for stupid.

And the average player's myopic focus on that mountain as actualyl holding any value is, in fact, stupid.

[AssaultPig]

you don't though

assuming both teams are equally disciplined they can bunker up in separate locations, but that doesn't do anything other than create a stalemate

in assault you can take the base, but there are easy sight lines from the top of the hill to the approaches to both bases (although one is much worse.) And winning that kind of bloodless cap-race game is basically the opposite of fun anyway.

I mean I agree that the southern fields are much better to fight in, which is why alpine conquest is okay. But on skirmish moving your team there doesn't actually force anyone to do anything, it just creates a stalemate. On most maps there's at least a place from which to flank a determined defensive team; on alpine there is none.

[Bishop Steiner]

AssaultPig, on 04 January 2016 - 09:55 PM, said:

you don't though

assuming both teams are equally disciplined they can bunker up in separate locations, but that doesn't do anything other than create a stalemate

in assault you can take the base, but there are easy sight lines from the top of the hill to the approaches to both bases (although one is much worse.) And winning that kind of bloodless cap-race game is basically the opposite of fun anyway.

I mean I agree that the southern fields are much better to fight in, which is why alpine conquest is okay. But on skirmish moving your team there doesn't actually force anyone to do anything, it just creates a stalemate. On most maps there's at least a place from which to flank a determined defensive team; on alpine there is none.

So what if it creates a stalemate?

Welcome to wargaming. First to get impatient, loses. The timer is what forces things. People can choose to sit around and do nothing, but that almost NEVER happens. Especially if you can catch an enemy straggler with a wolf pack or such in the beginning. But in nearly 3 years of playign that map IF I can get people to actualyl listen and be disciplined, we have held the lowlands and won virtually every time.

It's a matter of which team has the discipline to truly be the defender.

But again, that's a player problem, not really a map problem. I'm not saying I'm in love with the hill being there, but it's not the end of all things for it to be.

Also, I find it often helps to be snide and insulting after a few minutes.... almost always gets an epeen commando to do something stupid.

[AssaultPig]

on most other maps, there are ways to flank or force defensive teams out of obvious hardpoints; on therma (for example) there are four entrances to the center. On other maps it's possible to flank, or get above the other team and use air strikes, etc.

On alpine there are no such options; it's either charge up the hill, or sit in whatever remote spot you want and hope the team that takes the hill is dumb enough to come to you. If both teams are dumb the first to the top of the hill wins; if both teams are smart it's a boring stalemate. This is a problem with the map, not with the players.

[Appogee]

MWO needs more maps. Keeping the old ones, even when they're a bit flawed, makes sense in this context.

I think they could easily tweak Alpine Peaks to address its major flaw ... just level The Mountain and redistribute the spawn points.

That will buy it another 6 months of useful service and provide MWO with a little more much-needed variety.