85 replies to this topic

[Charronn]

I don't mind Alpine,I just hate the get to the top of the hill minigame that goes with it.
All of the best matches I've played on Alpine have been when the teams don't fight on the hill.
Played a match there last week when the enemy spawned closest to the hill so I advised my team to get behind cover near our base and wait for them to come to us.Epic battle ensued and we won.

[MrMadguy]

The Basilisk, on 05 January 2016 - 01:43 AM, said:

I would agree if you would have said, spawns in skirmish are bad because to farspread and with imbalanced travel lanes.
You could have said bases in assault mode are positioned bad cause one base has the hill and the other is out in the open....but OP I realy do not like your tone and your basic refusal or outright despite of opinions differing from your own.
So...reported for beeing inflamatory.

Sorry to say it, but whatever game mode is being chosen - it is played like Skirmish anyway now. Even Conquest. It's biggest devs' problem. They may put any ideas into their maps, they may intent any play styles in their game modes - but players will play the game the way, they like. And game should be build around how players want it to play - not how devs intend. Something like "Bring the player - not the class" from Wow. Blizzard thought, that if game had 10 classes, then every class should be viable and therefore brought into every raid. But players wanted to play with friends, no matter what classe they played - not to search for Paladin for 2 hours, because it was mandatory to have him in a raid in order to succeed.

Same here. "Bring the player - not the map!" Takes 5 minutes for Assault to regroup at Alpine? Equip bigger engine, they said? 50kph with 300 engine is not enough? What will be enough? 360? 400? Throw all weapons out of the window only to gain stupid 10kph more speed? Or I should equip Gauss, ER-PPC, ER-LGL and ton of LRMs on evey 'Mech I have to make it "universal", cuz maps like Alpine make Brawlers unplayable? Assault and Brawler - are legitimate choices in this game, sorry. And all maps should be balanced around any viable build in a game. There should not be such a things, like "sniper map".

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 January 2016 - 02:13 AM.

[TexAce]

Seriously, the map is FINE.

Its the STUPID PEOPLE which make it suck.

Example: Yesterday during launch we and enemy team agreed to fight it out on the radio tower.
So they went radio, and 8 of us went there too. We of course then lost because the other 4 refused to come along and rather wanted to camp hamburger hill.

Then after match, they even complained why we didnt went all hamburger hill.
This was a tier 2 match by the way!

Face, meet desk.


Changing spawn points to what they were initially will resolve alot of it. Back then, no one was using the hill.

[MrMadguy]

TexAce, on 05 January 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

Seriously, the map is FINE.

Its the STUPID PEOPLE which make it suck.

Example: Yesterday during launch we and enemy team agreed to fight it out on the radio tower.
So they went radio, and 8 of us went there too. We of course then lost because the other 4 refused to come along and rather wanted to camp hamburger hill.

Then after match, they even complained why we didnt went all hamburger hill.
This was a tier 2 match by the way!

Face, meet desk.


Changing spawn points to what they were initially will resolve alot of it. Back then, no one was using the hill.

I have been playing since Open Beta and can say, that matches were not balanced with old spawn points too. Team, that was spawned at F11, had advantage over team, that was spawned at J5, cuz fight usually happened around H7-G7 and half of first team was usually flanking to F7 and sniping from cover, while second team had no choice due to Candy Mountain blocking their ability to flank too. I was actually doing it every time via my 4xAC/2 Jagger. Same tactic again, again and again.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 January 2016 - 02:28 AM.

[spectralthundr]

MrMadguy, on 05 January 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

Going to center - is suicide there, cuz it completely lacks cover and if you're an Assault or even Heavy - you can't go around volcano, cuz it would take way too much time. Most fights there - are stupid stomps on narrow passes to caldera or messes at center. Complete lack of viable tactics - the worst map in a whole game. We don't need maps with blocked center, sorry.

There's at least 4 entrances to the middle on Terra Therma. Please do the rest of the community a favor and just uninstall forever. K thx. And really no one is forcing you to go into the middle to begin with, plenty of fights happen outside the middle on terra when teams are patient enough to either draw those in the middle out, or set up firing lines when the poke out.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I don't agree with removing maps. Alpine should stay as is for now, but it should also see a rework IMO.

Mt. Tryhard is clearly designed to be the hill the designer intended both teams to fight over, yet it favors one side over the other. They try to balance this by making the Mountain favored team have one lance that spawns in the middle of no where (if that is your assault lance, I pitty your team).

It's a mess. Too much focus on the Mountain by the designers and spawns that are messed up. There is also one assault base surrounded by mountains with only 2 ways in (around Mt. Tryhard) with no cover, yet the other base is wide open with approaches from almost all sides.

It is a balance mess, but it is still a map, and more is better than less. If PGI has no interest in fixing the map, it's a mistake IMO,but fine. But, at least readjust the spawns. In anycase, don't remove it.

[MrMadguy]

spectralthundr, on 05 January 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

There's at least 4 entrances to the middle on Terra Therma. Please do the rest of the community a favor and just uninstall forever. K thx. And really no one is forcing you to go into the middle to begin with, plenty of fights happen outside the middle on terra when teams are patient enough to either draw those in the middle out, or set up firing lines when the poke out.

No. Center of Therma - is the same Candy Mountain. Team, that managed to get into center first - will win via stomping other team at narrow passes. Nobody will get out, unless they are stupid noobs - it's the same, as playing NASCAR game. You have an advantage, but at the end you rush to use this advantage so much, that you switch positions with your enemies. Do you understand, what experience means? You play the game not only how you should play - but with taking into account, how other team will most likely play. You predict other team's actions and perform anticipatory actions by yourself.

You HAVE TO rush into center, otherwise enemy team will take it first. And then game will be turned into waste of time via waiting for other team to be stupid enough to came to narrow passes by themselves and be stomped. And nobody wants to waste time - it's better to die fast, then sit for 15 minutes in pointless match.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 January 2016 - 02:47 AM.

[Black Ivan]

Fix the map and then leave in rotation. Point done.

[spectralthundr]

MrMadguy, on 05 January 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

No. Center of Therma - is the same Candy Mountain. Team, that managed to get into center first - will win via stomping other team at narrow passes. Nobody will get out, unless they are stupid noobs - it's the same, as playing NASCAR game. You have an advantage, but at the end you rush to use this advantage so much, that you switch positions with your enemies. Do you understand, what experience means? You play the game not only how you should play - but with taking into account, how other team will most likely play. You predict other team's actions and perform anticipatory actions by yourself.

You HAVE TO rush into center, otherwise enemy team will take it first. And then game will be turned into waste of time via waiting for other team to be stupid enough to came to narrow passes by themselves and be stomped. And nobody wants to waste time - it's better to die fast, then sit for 15 minutes in pointless match.

While taking center first certainly helps your chances, you aren't forced to. I was on a team earlier tonight that didn't take center first and after managing the first kill, the other team had no choice but to come out of the ring to try and even it up. They failed and we won 12-6. You don't have to own the center to win on terra therma, you just need to play smart. You don't need to own Candy mountain on Alpine you just need to play smart, It makes far more sense on Alpine to go the Radio Tower side and try and pull the other team off the hill or use range from the back hill to either get ahead in kills or lure them off rather than charge blindly into death. But hey I get it, tactics aren't your strong point.

[MrMadguy]

Black Ivan, on 05 January 2016 - 02:52 AM, said:

Fix the map and then leave in rotation. Point done.

First fix - then leave. I have a great experience with devs, lying to their playerbase (Blizzard mostly), via promising something, then not delivering what they promised, and then telling something like "Well, gamedev is creative process - everything is subject to change". No promises! Delete it now - return to rotation, only when it will be fixed.

[MrMadguy]

spectralthundr, on 05 January 2016 - 02:56 AM, said:

While taking center first certainly helps your chances, you aren't forced to. I was on a team earlier tonight that didn't take center first and after managing the first kill, the other team had no choice but to come out of the ring to try and even it up. They failed and we won 12-6. You don't have to own the center to win on terra therma, you just need to play smart. You don't need to own Candy mountain on Alpine you just need to play smart, It makes far more sense on Alpine to go the Radio Tower side and try and pull the other team off the hill or use range from the back hill to either get ahead in kills or lure them off rather than charge blindly into death. But hey I get it, tactics aren't your strong point.

They were noobs. As I said, I wouldn't rely on enemy team being noobish enough to do, what I want them to do. At some point after several trials and errors every player will understand, that coming out of caldera at Therma and not taking Candy Mountain at Alpine - is the direct way to losing the match. Therma has more terrible gameplay, then Alpine, but it's at least balanced - at Therma one team doesn't have a mountain, that prevents it from getting into center first.

Edited by MrMadguy, 05 January 2016 - 03:10 AM.

[TexAce]

MrMadguy, on 05 January 2016 - 02:42 AM, said:

No. Center of Therma - is the same Candy Mountain. Team, that managed to get into center first - will win via stomping other team at narrow passes. Nobody will get out, unless they are stupid noobs - it's the same, as playing NASCAR game. You have an advantage, but at the end you rush to use this advantage so much, that you switch positions with your enemies. Do you understand, what experience means? You play the game not only how you should play - but with taking into account, how other team will most likely play. You predict other team's actions and perform anticipatory actions by yourself.

You HAVE TO rush into center, otherwise enemy team will take it first. And then game will be turned into waste of time via waiting for other team to be stupid enough to came to narrow passes by themselves and be stomped. And nobody wants to waste time - it's better to die fast, then sit for 15 minutes in pointless match.

Some of those 15 minute matches were the most intense matches I played as a PUG. And besides, you just have to kill ONE enemy mech to force the team in the caldera to come out. Its that easy.

And don't speak about other players as noobs as long as you dont have your tier shown in the forum. Otherwise some could say you are the noob for not knowing how to play those maps.

[spectralthundr]

MrMadguy, on 05 January 2016 - 03:04 AM, said:

They were noobs. As I said, I wouldn't rely on enemy team being noobish enough to do, what I want them to do. At some point after several trials and errors every player will understand, that coming out of caldera at Therma and not taking Candy Mountain at Alpine - is the direct way to losing the match. Therma has more terrible gameplay, then Alpine, but it's at least balanced - at Therma one team doesn't have a mountain, that prevents it from getting into center first.

I'm Tier 2 in case you didn't notice I'm not dropping vs the underhive Tier 5's, but again like I said, tactics aren't your strong point, stick to whining about maps you don't like.

[MrMadguy]

spectralthundr, on 05 January 2016 - 03:15 AM, said:

I'm Tier 2 in case you didn't notice I'm not dropping vs the underhive Tier 5's, but again like I said, tactics aren't your strong point, stick to whining about maps you don't like.

Ran out of arguments? Say "I'm Tier X - I know it better".

[spectralthundr]

MrMadguy, on 05 January 2016 - 03:24 AM, said:

Ran out of arguments? Say "I'm Tier X - I know it better".

Um you claimed it had to be a game full of noobs, that isn't possible given the tier was all I was getting at. Again like I said, do the community a favor and uninstall.

[MrMadguy]

spectralthundr, on 05 January 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Um you claimed it had to be a game full of noobs, that isn't possible given the tier was all I was getting at. Again like I said, do the community a favor and uninstall.

Ah... You don't even know, how "perfectly" current MM works. For example there was a times during recent holidays, when it was simply shut off - instant queues + pure random matchmaking. But even with functional matchmaker: Tier 2 can be matched with/against Tier 4, which was noob-tier prior to Steam release and I don't think, that with current PSR bubble rule players stay at Tier 5 for a long time, before advancing to Tier 4.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 January 2016 - 01:04 AM, said:

because 1) We need more maps not less 2) cries of massive advantage are BS because I have won and lost from all spawn points 3) just because most players are too stupid but to fight anywhere but Candy Mountain is not the same as Candy Mountain being the only viable or desirable battleground.

It needs Spawns reworked and Conquest points spread more, but I'd rather it stay in rotation while that is being addressed, thanks.

This all the way.

If you don't want to die on mechburger hill, DON'T GO THERE! I have had successful defenses and assaults in all corners of that map.

[AssaultPig]

if both teams' executing their optimal strategy on a map produces an unbreakable stalemate... that means it's a bad ******* map and it ought to be removed until it's fixed.

I mean, I agree that the center in therma is also a high-leverage position; the difference between it an alpine is that the slower team can at least flank and try to push in. The optimal response to a team that takes the hill is (apparently, per this thread) for the other team to sit at some other defensible position and wait.

At the very least alpine should be out of rotation until the spawn locations aren't flagrantly unbalanced.

[MechWarrior5152251]

Conquest never ends up as a fight on the hill, instead it is a death match in the valley where the capture points are bunched up. I win plenty of matches from the low side of the map. It is a pain if you have all torso mounted weapons trying to climb the steep side.

The only change I would make would be to move the spawn points on the lower side closer and stop dropping the Assault lance at the farthest spawn points.

[Lupis Volk]

AssaultPig, on 05 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

if both teams' executing their optimal strategy on a map produces an unbreakable stalemate... that means it's a bad ******* map and it ought to be removed until it's fixed.

I mean, I agree that the center in therma is also a high-leverage position; the difference between it an alpine is that the slower team can at least flank and try to push in. The optimal response to a team that takes the hill is (apparently, per this thread) for the other team to sit at some other defensible position and wait.

At the very least alpine should be out of rotation until the spawn locations aren't flagrantly unbalanced.

Heck if they are strapped for maps they could keep the old and rename i to classic and do the work they want to alpine and brand it as "new"

cdlord, on 05 January 2016 - 05:17 AM, said:

This all the way.

If you don't want to die on mechburger hill, DON'T GO THERE! I have had successful defenses and assaults in all corners of that map.

Issue is 2 out of 3 game modes Candy Mountain IS the place to fight.

On Assault it cover the teams base. SO naturally they'll camp it.

For Skirmish it's a natural fortress so of course the team closer to it will take it.

The Mountain and spawns are the issue. No amount of head burrowing or blame shifting will change that.

Edited by Lupis Volk, 05 January 2016 - 05:22 AM.