67 replies to this topic

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Fen Tetsudo, on 07 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

But its not war, its a video game for entertainment. Are you having fun? That's what matters. In war, cheating is allowed, even encouraged. We did an op where I hacked the enemies freqs and got the drop on them. Doing that here would be frowned upon

Hey OP, ask these guys what them mean when they advise "join a team". They use it like a talisman to ward off disgruntled new players, but I'm thinking there must be more than that to it.

See if they will give you details. Does it need to be a team that plays CW? What level of activity should the team have in CW? One drop a month? One drop a week? Should the team have some kind of training program to help new players get up to speed? Does the team need to have TS servers?

Because I'm thinking its a bit more complex than "join a team"

Go to appropriate forum.

Pick a team.

Try it out.

Join, or find another team and try again.

Huh. I, too, expected that to be more complicated. How 'bout that...

As an alternative, get on the FREE Teamspeak server appropriate to your region and find a group to drop casual with.

Use the Looking For Group feature in-game.

Look around the faction forums and see who's recruiting. Even just taking casual pals to fill in 12-mans.

This isn't rocket science. Solo queue has been a free-for-all since at least open beta, and that's the one that gets some sort of matchmaking? Weak sauce, I agree.

But CW is a TEAM GAME MODE. Why is that so hard to grasp? Sure, it lets you join in solo, and IDEALLY would toss solos in with groups to fill-in 12-man groups. Doesn't always work that way. THAT does not mean new players are being farmed by the big bad wolves of organized teams. It may be so in some cases. It is NOT so in most cases.

So, wanna win more? JOIN A TEAM.

[Legion173]

MadCat02, on 06 January 2016 - 06:20 PM, said:

12 people enjoying 90% winrate . That is not teamwork that is one broken gameplay mode .

regardless of the status of the gameplay mode, players will find a way to exploit and abuse a play mode meant for the majority of the people not just a select few.

Appogee, on 07 January 2016 - 02:13 AM, said:

1. Prohibit players from joining CW until they qualify, by demonstrating expertise in the solo queue. Being permitted to play the CW meta-game should be an aspiration for a new player, not a deterrent to them sticking with the game.

I don't think limiting someones ability to access everything the game has to offer is the right answer. how would you qualify someone to "advance" to CW from solo? I can see your point on it though

I do have disclaimer after posting reply's discussing CW. I haven't played CW yet. I do like the option that I can at anytime though. I don't want the game to tell me when Im ready. I will make that determination. I still don't know what mech I like yet. I read a bunch a forum posts on first mech to purchase and read all the horror stories on buyers remorse. I decided buyers remorse sounded like fun and bought a WVR. I have a love hate relationship with it. I love to hate it. so what did I do? got two more to elite them. why? because it has taught more about rotating my torso and spreading damage like no other. I have learned a lot more by suffering through it. brutal lessons on getting the most out of ACs, and SRMs. What does this have to do with CW? Once I find my groove and the mechs I like then I will go into much better prepared. I know people say join a team. I get that. I WANT that. I maybe wrong in my next statement but... if someone is going to take the time to work with me I want to take the time to get ready for that. CW is giving me something to strive for. "broke" system and all.

[aaykeem]

There's a delicate balance to strike here in order to keep the game mode popular. You don't want newbs to get farmed and eventually the game mode to die due to not having new players at all, but you also don't want the experienced units to quit and go grind the quick play instead.

Placing an entry barrier isn't necessarily a good thing because it limits the number of people that join and thins out the pilot base. On the other hand, you don't want people to get stomped for their first 3 matches and then decide CW is and never will be for them.

What it needs is a goal, something to work for, instead of just awarding XP and C-bills (which encourages grinding/farming). There should be some ways of encouraging competition between units and expansion and there probably should be more focus on the houses/clans than the units. Right now the House or Clan you join is just a flag you click on when first playing CW, or is probably as little as a message prompt you get if joining a house-aligned unit.

I haven't played or observed CW enough to understand the problems, so I can't really come up with a solution, just the general idea that should stand behind it. I saw the CW3 sneak peek video and it looks like they're trying to fix a part of these issues.

Edited by aaykeem, 08 January 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[Rhaezor]

There is another thread here with the same content. Its no use to say anything else here you will get the same answers.
What is known:
There should be a system to avoid these unbalanced matches in CW.
Apparently this mode is half complete because of the lack of funds or whatever, it wont change for some time.
Conclusion: Until some progress is made in MWO. Do not play this mode unless you have the time to be in a clan.

Some people say there is a warning to new players to not join.
There is a warning the FIRST time you press LFG. There is no warning when the pop up comes saying CW needs people.
There is even a "tip" saying, "pop up thing is a guarantee that you will get in (CW)" As if thats what you should be aiming for.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

LOTS of discussion on this topic elsewhere. General Discussion and Community Warfare forums are swimming in it.

Same problem. There's no GATE. There's nothing keeping a new player OUT of CW. There's nothing even DETERRING it aside from that popup. There's nothing to TEACH a new player even what the VERY BASIC CONCEPTS OF ANY CW MODE ARE.

I'm not a programmer. I'm not a PGI employee. I have no access to any of that. I can't put in a tutorial for CW (BADLY need, IMO). I can't write-in a gate of some sort to keep new players in the public queue for X matches, or to ban trial mechs from CW.

What I CAN do is this. I can TELL you, that if you want to succeed at CW as a new player, you really ought to JOIN A TEAM. Permanently, or just for the next couple drops, it doesn't matter. Play with a team, for the night or for the year, and you'll be on the winning side more often.

And AGAIN, the majority of teams are NOT farming newbs, and are as disappointed at the matchmaking disparity as are the poor fellas on the other side of the roll.

[Appogee]

Legion173, on 08 January 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't think limiting someones ability to access everything the game has to offer is the right answer. how would you qualify someone to "advance" to CW from solo? I can see your point on it though

Number of matches played. Whether they have enough Mechs to make a drop deck without using trials. Perhaps even attaining a minimum average matchscore

Legion173, on 08 January 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

I do like the option that I can at anytime though. I don't want the game to tell me when Im ready. I will make that determination.

Your inexperience isn't just going to provide you with a bad experience. It also provides a bad experience to the vets on whose team you are placed.

Those people have waited up to half an hour for a match. When they drop with a lance of inexperienced players, in trial mechs, who mostly don't even understand the rules of the game, let alone how to win a Mechwarrior battle, they are generally doomed to a wasted additional half hour of failing to carry you.

It's not reasonable to expose veteran players and long-paying customers to that kind of unsatisfying match.

Legion173, on 08 January 2016 - 06:18 AM, said:

CW is giving me something to strive for. "broke" system and all.

Yes. You are doing the right thing. But many don't.

So let's put some specific qualification criteria in place ... for all our sakes.

Edited by Appogee, 08 January 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[Darwins Dog]

From my experience the biggest part of the PUG/Premade disparity in FW is that even the newest players get the popups calling them to attack/defend planets. Most of the time they come up when a 12 man is in the queue, since that's the match that needs opponents.

Then, when they click the box they get a warning (how often do any of us actually read things that pop up in video games), and no instruction on how to create a drop deck. Even if they own enough mechs to make a deck, nothing in the game actually tells them what to do, so they get the default deck which inexplicably has 2 lights and 2 mediums.

PGI needs to (at the very least) turn off the call-to-arms popups for new players, and actually make a decent deck of the current trial mechs.

[Bud Crue]

To those complaining about CW farming, and those who think the "join a team" answer is bunk:

The only caveat to "join a team" being the cure all is perhaps "join a team, listen, and communicate". To that end some factions and groups have TS or other communication mechanisms which allow large numbers of disparate groups and individuals a place to congregate and play together. Use such resources. For example: http://mwomercs.com/...action-rewards/

I am in Sons of Odin. We are a large unit and have no restrictions on who joins (just ask Theaus if you want in). Some of us are good at this game, some of us are terrible (raises hand). Many of us drop with other FRR units and mercs using the FRR TS hub. We win and we lose. More often than not though, we win. More importantly, we talk to each other, we learn from each other and we almost always have a good time.

You want to learn CW and not get constantly "farmed" (hey you run into a comp MS 12 man or EMP, etc., you will feel like you are being farmed...it happens), then the first step is indeed to "join a team".

[Nightmare1]

Community Warfare was designed specifically for premade play. It's like the deep end of the pool with signs saying, "Strong swimmers only." It's not that it's supposed to be exclusive so much as it's supposed to really test the cohesion and capabilities of the Units that play there. Pugs are allowed in, but they do so knowing that they are getting into "the deep end."

So, quit complaining. If you had read the warning or the forums, you should know what you're getting into. CW is the hardcore group queue. If you can't swim, don't get into the water.

[Azzgaroth]

Most T1 player dont even play CW, not enough challenge for them. Its not even a joke. PGI cannot nerf teamwork and teamwork win CW match. Les face it, if you wanna solo play there you gonna be roflstomped 90% of the time.

[DiaraDalmatian]

There should be a system to avoid these unbalanced matches in CW.

It's just unfair that you get a lot more money in CW.

Edited by DiaraDalmatian, 08 January 2016 - 11:05 AM.

[Bud Crue]

DiaraDalmatian, on 08 January 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

There should be a system to avoid these unbalanced matches in CW.

It's just unfair that you get a lot more money in CW.

The increased money is a fairly recent buff to CW. It was done, if I recall correctly (from the Townhall where/when it was discussed) as an effort to increase the CW population. That said, the increased rewards are offset by the fact that often you must wait a long time to get a match, and even to play a match. You can make the same, if not more money in quick play drops in the same amount of time.

[IraqiWalker]

Appogee, on 08 January 2016 - 08:39 AM, said:

So let's put some specific qualification criteria in place ... for all our sakes.

A- 4 owned mechs, all with full basics.
B- At least 100 matches (to get 4 mechs with full basics an average player will need a lot more than 100 matches)

I honestly don't think we need much more than that to enter CW. Of course it's better if the player has 4 fully elited mechs, but with full basics they can still do a lot. Especially for entry level

Nightmare1, on 08 January 2016 - 08:48 AM, said:

Community Warfare was designed specifically for premade play. It's like the deep end of the pool with signs saying, "Strong swimmers only." It's not that it's supposed to be exclusive so much as it's supposed to really test the cohesion and capabilities of the Units that play there. Pugs are allowed in, but they do so knowing that they are getting into "the deep end."

So, quit complaining. If you had read the warning or the forums, you should know what you're getting into. CW is the hardcore group queue. If you can't swim, don't get into the water.

From MWO's CW Phase 3 sneak peek video:

Spoiler

This is honest to God going to be on the top of the CW page, and it really makes things clear for people, in regards to what they are stepping into.




Don't believe me? Check the video at 00:14

Check the video anyways, it's fantastic.

[Koniving]

I'm half wondering why this thread is in the new player help forum rather than something like general.

The other half I'm wondering about is why anyone is entertaining this thread at all?

The simple takeaway, "If you're looking for your first experience in CW / FW, focus on house versus house or clan versus clan battles only if you must try out CW / FW to avoid becoming slaughtered cattle." "FW is for group-oriented play and is intended to be a 'hardcore' mode; learn the game before trying it."

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Okay, HELPFUL advice time.

IF you feel that, as a solo player OR a new-to-this-mode player, you are being farmed or at least ruthlessly slaughtered by organized large teams, then try fighting on a different planet.

See, if a team has what it wants on a certain planet, such as ATTACK and HOLD TERRITORY matches and pretty quick queue times, they're probably going to stay there for a few matches at least. That means that you're more likely to KEEP facing them there, and that more may be showing up soon. So, while it may kinda suck having a longer wait time in queue or not getting the side of the fight you want to be on, you MAY be better served by finding a planet with a lower queue population.

Also, Koniving makes a good point about sticking to Clan-v-Clan or house-v-house planets for now. A lot of teams switch back and forth between IS and Clan, and like to fight the other (not ALL by any means) side. They also tend to prefer being on the side ATTACKING a planet, as opposed to DEFENDING it. But anyhow, you will find more loyalist solos and fewer teams, IIRC, defending an IS planet against other IS, or as Clan attacking another Clan planet. And so on.

I honestly hope that helps. It DOESN'T help that, just last night, my team went 10 deep into a defense (with 2 solos) against a 12-man (ALL same tag), and it was IS-on-IS (FRR defending against Kurita, IIRC). But that may have been a fluke. And at that rate, we still had two solo players got to get in on that with us, and it was a good fight.

Previous drop, we were in HOLD with 9 of us and a few solos (at least one of whom I see around the forum, and is REALLY good) against a mixed bag of 4-5 different tags on the other side, Clanners. Not nearly as close/good a fight.

I'm not looking forward to our next Clan contract, because right now that feels badly balanced, and Clans are generally getting it handed to them (props to Jade Falcon for taking back some territory lately along the Steiner/FRR border).

TL;DR- Stick to fighting IS-v-IS or Clan-v-Clan, and to the smaller planet queues, and you might see fewer of those lopsided matches. GOOD LUCK!

[IraqiWalker]

Community Warfare Phase 3 Sneak Peek

[MechWarrior3671771]

DiaraDalmatian, on 08 January 2016 - 11:05 AM, said:

There should be a system to avoid these unbalanced matches in CW.

One idea is to make both queues visible to both teams. So when you click on a planet screen that needs defenders, you can see whether the attackers are stacking up as 10 solo puggers or if its a 12-man premade.

1) New players that don't want to get farmed by premades could avoid them.

2) Premades that don't enjoy farming newbies could avoid solo groups and find more challenging drops against other premades.


But then that would take away the excuse that "the devs are making us farm noobs".

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 09 January 2016 - 02:02 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

Fen Tetsudo, on 09 January 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

But then that would take away the excuse that "the devs are making us farm noobs".

That is not an excuse I have ever heard. The devs aren't making us do anything. It's the players that choose to not work together that get themselves farmed.

Hell, I may be in a unit, but the last time I dropped with my unitmates was back in CW 1.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Fen Tetsudo, on 09 January 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

One idea is to make both queues visible to both teams. So when you click on a planet screen that needs defenders, you can see whether the attackers are stacking up as 10 solo puggers or if its a 12-man premade.

1) New players that don't want to get farmed by premades could avoid them.

2) Premades that don't enjoy farming newbies could avoid solo groups and find more challenging drops against other premades.


But then that would take away the excuse that "the devs are making us farm noobs".

I really REALLY like that idea. Have your heart set on this planet, but the opposing side is all solos? Drop out until it clears out, then try again. Might make it take a while longer to get a match, but also might make a match worth waiting for.

Might be the fairest solution out there so far, and it SOUNDS like it should be easy enough to accomplish.

[p4r4g0n]

Till the farmers use it to target groups of solo droppers since a 12 man auto jumps to the head of the queue.