60 replies to this topic

[Tyler Valentine]

I appreciate that they are trying to balance CW with dropdeck tonnage but I feel like the ability to take 4 heavies combined with the current, anemic state of assaults, means there is basically no strategy involved... Just bring your 4 best mechs. I propose both factions in the 215 ton range.

[adamts01]

That really means no assaults. If there was more level variety, that would force a variety of different builds.

[Wintersdark]

No thanks. Definitely not.

Unless you allow me to take less than 4 mechs.

And this is from someone who loves mediums. But saying if you want an assault you must bring 3 lights? No, that's stupid.

With that said, I'd LOVE to see per planet drop weights, including very low weights.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 07:20 PM, said:

I appreciate that they are trying to balance CW with dropdeck tonnage but I feel like the ability to take 4 heavies combined with the current, anemic state of assaults, means there is basically no strategy involved... Just bring your 4 best mechs. I propose both factions in the 215 ton range.

Thats nice and all, but raising or lowering the tonnage doesn't change the strategy at all.

at 215 tons a clanner could bring 3 StormCrows and a 50 tonner (nova or HBKIIC), IS could do similar with a load of Black Jacks or 3 jacks and an 80 tonner.

Same thing, just lighter mechs. I guess battles would be quicker though.

[Wintersdark]

adamts01, on 06 January 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

That really means no assaults. If there was more level variety, that would force a variety of different builds.

Exactly. Really, at 240, assaults come at such an opportunity cost they're not really worth it - particularly Clan side.

Forcing three lights on a Assault pilot? That's kind of awful gameplay for someone who doesn't like lights.

[MechWarrior3671771]

I think you can expect drop decks values to fluctuate up and down.

From the business side, changing the values makes it more likely players will buy more mechs to min/max whatever the new value is. I know that the change from 240 to 265 made me drop my Stalkers/Ravens deck and buy Tbolts x4 and BKs x3

[Lord Creston]

I'd prefer:
You must have a mech from 3 different weight classes in your deck. This would limit any deck to a maximum of 2 of the same weight class.
Heavier pilots can favor 2xAssault, 1x Heavy, 1x Medium.
Lighter pilots can go 2xLight, 1xMedium, 1xHeavy.

That combined with a weight limit (like 280 tons) would have some good variety.

[Tyler Valentine]

Lord Creston, on 06 January 2016 - 07:43 PM, said:

I'd prefer:
You must have a mech from 3 different weight classes in your deck. This would limit any deck to a maximum of 2 of the same weight class.
Heavier pilots can favor 2xAssault, 1x Heavy, 1x Medium.
Lighter pilots can go 2xLight, 1xMedium, 1xHeavy.

That combined with a weight limit (like 280 tons) would have some good variety.

Excellent idea. It seems like a lot of people here are married to their favorite mechs and are uncomfortable trying something new. It's the same thing over and over. Just looking for ideas to force people to think on their feet.

[Tyler Valentine]

Wintersdark, on 06 January 2016 - 07:35 PM, said:

Forcing three lights on a Assault pilot?

It only forces two, and just taking an assault each drop and saying it's because you're an "assault pilot" seems lazy and uninspired to me. Take one assault and be forced to pay for it with a med and a couple lights or go with heavies and mediums. This take an Atlas and 3 medium/heavies thing seems too easy.

[fogsworth]

You can bring one mech of each type which averages out to a middle heavy. Seems fine to me.

35+55+75+100=265
265/4 is about 65 tons

[Tyler Valentine]

fogsworth, on 06 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

You can bring one mech of each type which averages out to a middle heavy. Seems fine to me.

35+55+75+100=265
265/4 is about 65 tons

True... Or, if you want to skew it the other way. 20+40+60+80=200, so maybe it should be 200tons right? 1 of each, just like you said.

[Wintersdark]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

True... Or, if you want to skew it the other way. 20+40+60+80=200, so maybe it should be 200tons right? 1 of each, just like you said.

yuck. Why?how is this any less lazy and uninspired? Or is it just better because it works better for you?

It doesn't force harder choices, it just means that many mechs are effectively unusable.

Why force players into lights? Having more arctic cheetahs won't make drop decks more interesting.

Ultimately people will use what works best in a given tonnage. A higher limit at least allows assaults to be usable.


Note that I did say very low limits are great if per planet. No objection then. So long as there's also very high weight worlds, so everyone gets to use their babies.

With only one option, though, a high limit allows everyone their toys. A low limit just wrecks CW for those who don't like lights.

[Alex Morgaine]

They need to make some ranges higher and lower for planets, but at this point might as well just say 400 tons until they make weight limits important. At least no one can complain about not being able to bring their fav mech. 12v12x4 crab/dwf matches :3. Oh and the occasional atlas.

Oh and to favor those who like lighter mechs, drop mins to 80. There, now we can get to balancing it.

Edited by Frosty Brand, 06 January 2016 - 08:48 PM.

[fogsworth]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 07:56 PM, said:

True... Or, if you want to skew it the other way. 20+40+60+80=200, so maybe it should be 200tons right? 1 of each, just like you said.

That wouldn't allow choice of mech from each weight class.

[Mystere]

Reduce the maximum drop weight, eliminate the minimum weight, and remove the 4-Mech hard limit by making it a maximum instead. If someone wants to bring only 3, and all locusts at that, I'm not going to stop them.

At the same time, have different drop weights for different planets. Heck, why not make the weight differential between opponents dependent on some criteria like distance to a capital or strategic planet? I really do not understand this obsession with "same here" "same there" "same everywhere". <smh>

Edited by Mystere, 06 January 2016 - 11:42 PM.

[Gryphorim]

fogsworth, on 06 January 2016 - 10:34 PM, said:

That wouldn't allow choice of mech from each weight class.

How do you figure? Tyler even gives the tonnages for one of each weight class used. Clans don't have a 20T Light, however. Is this what you are referring to?

[Khobai]

the problem with dropweight limits is that they imply heavier mechs are better than lighter mechs

but assaults arnt better than heavy mechs...

in order to fix dropweight limits they first need to fix the fact assaults are worse heavies.

Edited by Khobai, 07 January 2016 - 12:07 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

Khobai, on 07 January 2016 - 12:04 AM, said:

the problem with dropweight limits is that they imply heavier mechs are better than lighter mechs

but assaults arnt better than heavy mechs...

in order to fix dropweight limits they first need to fix the fact assaults are worse heavies.

True. Heavies have no drawbacks...nimble to the point to neutralize light mechs' speed and firepower to rival assaults. Balance is simply off.

Edited by Bush Hopper, 07 January 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[AssaultPig]

I would like to see them go back to 230 or 240, with a slight tonnage edge for IS maybe. The current 'bring four heavies' dominant style of deck is pretty blah.

[Satan n stuff]

adamts01, on 06 January 2016 - 07:32 PM, said:

That really means no assaults. If there was more level variety, that would force a variety of different builds.

Considering drop callers for Davion public groups usually specifically request assaults and lights for specific waves and the Battlemaster 1S is by far the most common IS mech in CW, you couldn't be more wrong.

Edited by Satan n stuff, 07 January 2016 - 04:20 AM.